The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[JaCrispy]

18 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

So you’re saying Big Blitz and Bills Time are reflective of America? 

I was referring to fake news, indoctrination and censorship being reflective of what America has become in 2021...

 

I wasn’t singling any posters out, but rather making a general observation about the dark authoritarian path we are sliding down...

[Sundancer]

8 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I was referring to fake news, indoctrination and censorship being reflective of what America has become in 2021...

 

I wasn’t singling any posters out, but rather making a general observation about the dark authoritarian path we are sliding down...

We just had a president try to stay in office after losing so I agree with that. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

Yesterday I was watching Fauci being interviewed on one of the Sunday morning news shows.  He said a few things I found curious.  I'll focus on one of them here.  This is his recommendation everyone should get vaccinated to prevent a serious case of COVID.  That just doesn't sound right to me,

 

Because the messaging up until recently has been the vaccines are "safe and effective" in preventing COVID, period.  No qualification about the severity of the illness which can be asymptomatic, mild, moderate, severe, critical.  But when somebody gets an HIV, or Flu, or Polio vaccine the justification isn't the vaccine will prevent a severe case of the illness.  They get them because they will prevent any infection, end of story.  That's the purpose of a vaccine, to prevent the target illness from happening, period.

 

But now the messaging on the COVID vaccine is that "it is intended" (his words) to prevent a severe case.  But so do a host of approved "treatments" and others awaiting approval from the FDA.  They prevent a severe and critical case of COVID too.  So for a healthy, young adult in the low risk category it makes no medical sense to get vaccinated because it will not "prevent" COVID, according to Dr. Faucl's words and expert opinion (not my words).   Because if you do get infected its almost a certainty your case will be asymptomatic or mild anyway.  So the vaccine has little to no benefit but poses some unknown long term risks that matter more to young people than older one's.  And even if you buy into or want to make the social responsibility argument he also said vaccinated people can have a viral load as high as un-vaccinated people so it makes no differences if you are vaxed or not regarding the potential to spread it.

 

If the government's goal is to get the public to get the shot they are doing themselves no favors with their messaging. 

[Sundancer]

5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Yesterday I was watching Fauci being interviewed on one of the Sunday morning news shows.  He said a few things I found curious.  I'll focus on one of them here.  This is his recommendation everyone should get vaccinated to prevent a serious case of COVID.  That just doesn't sound right to me,

 

Because the messaging up until recently has been the vaccines are "safe and effective" in preventing COVID, period.  No qualification about the severity of the illness which can be asymptomatic, mild, moderate, severe, critical.  But when somebody gets an HIV, or Flu, or Polio vaccine the justification isn't the vaccine will prevent a severe case of the illness.  They get them because they will prevent any infection, end of story.  That's the purpose of a vaccine, to prevent the target illness from happening, period.

 

But now the messaging on the COVID vaccine is that "it is intended" (his words) to prevent a severe case.  But so do a host of approved "treatments" and others awaiting approval from the FDA.  They prevent a severe and critical case of COVID too.  So for a healthy, young adult in the low risk category it makes no medical sense to get vaccinated because it will not "prevent" COVID, according to Dr. Faucl's words and expert opinion (not my words).   Because if you do get infected its almost a certainty your case will be asymptomatic or mild anyway.  So the vaccine has little to no benefit but poses some unknown long term risks that matter more to young people than older one's.  And even if you buy into or want to make the social responsibility argument he also said vaccinated people can have a viral load as high as un-vaccinated people so it makes no differences if you are vaxed or not regarding the potential to spread it.

 

If the government's goal is to get the public to get the shot they are doing themselves no favors with their messaging. 

Florida has more kids in the hospital right now with Covid than at any point. Young people who are unvaccinated are a vector they haven’t been before.  
 

 

[Sundancer]

Leat my posts about Florida be misconstrued, I suspect it’s just a matter of time before the higher vaccinated states see the same thing. 30-40% unvaccinated is still a lot of vulnerable humans in the more vaccinated states. 

[ALF]

 

Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations

 

Florida on Sunday broke a previous record for current hospitalizations set more than a year ago before vaccines were available.

 

The Sunshine State had 10,207 people hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19 cases, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

 

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

 

Throughout Florida, from Jacksonville to Miami to Tampa, hospitals have become overwhelmed.

There has been a startling rise in the number of children with the virus at hospitals in Miami, many of them requiring intensive care.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/health/florida-breaks-record-covid-19-hospitalizations

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Leat my posts about Florida be misconstrued, I suspect it’s just a matter of time before the higher vaccinated states see the same thing. 30-40% unvaccinated is still a lot of vulnerable humans in the more vaccinated states. 

Of course, we really don’t know that they are not in a state like NY, do we?  It’s impossible to trust any of the data when politics are involved.  
 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

47 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Florida has more kids in the hospital right now with Covid than at any point. Young people who are unvaccinated are a vector they haven’t been before.  
 

 

And how does that change the fact that vaccines are supposed to prevent infection and not just severe infection and the COVID vaccines don't meet that criteria?

 

And I'm 99% certain that every child hospitalized in Florida has one or another co-morbidity or pre-existing condition that puts them at high risk. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[ALF]

12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

And how does that change the fact that vaccines are supposed to prevent infection and not just severe infection and the COVID vaccines don't meet that criteria?

 

And I'm 99% certain that every child hospitalized in Florida has one or another co-morbidity or pre-existing condition that puts them at high risk. 

 

All the more reason for the unvaccinated to get the shots to protect the most vulnerable.

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

All the more reason for the unvaccinated to get the shots to protect the most vulnerable.

Dr. Fauci said their studies show that vaccinated people can have the same high viral load in their nasal passages as unvaccinated people so they are not protecting anyone as long as the viral load is high.  So that protection you cite isn't generated by vaccination. 

[ALF]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

Dr. Fauci said their studies show that vaccinated people can have the same high viral load in their nasal passages as unvaccinated people so they are not protecting anyone as long as the viral load is high.  So that protection you cite isn't generated by vaccination. 

 

The vaccinated are getting infected originally from someone unvaccinated. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

55 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

The vaccinated are getting infected originally from someone unvaccinated. 

You're point may be generally true but irrelevant to my contention.  Which is the vaccine does not work as advertised and even if you are vaccinated you can still get sick and you can still spread it which contradicts the fundamental definition of a vaccine.  That's all I'm saying.  And that's what Dr. Fauci is saying too.  It falls closer to the definition of a treatment.  And some conclusion that having everyone vaccinated will completely stop the spread of the virus is most likely false.

 

The thing is the government's policy and objectives are half-ass wrong and bordering on irrational ignorance of science.  The efficacy rate of the vaccines are not 100%. Its 95% for Pfizer and 94.1% for Moderna.  This is cited in their studies and their EUA applications.  That means for the Pfizer shot 50 of every 1,000 people vaccinated fail to generate protective antibodies in a sufficient amount to provide protection.  For Moderna 59 of every 1,000 people vaccinated fail to generate protective antibodies.  So what, there are about 140,000,000 people vaccinated?  Do the math.  That means roughly 7,000,000 people that got the shot have no antibody protection.  So what's the solution?

 

Focus on immunity not vaccinations!  By counting people that have immunity through the generation of COVID fighting antibodies.  This can be determined through available and established antibody tests.  This means counting people that have immunity through the vaccines and also counting people that have "natural" immunity (a big number of those un-vaccinated everyone is targeting) through previous COVID infection and recovery.   This latter group is almost 35 million from CDC data on cases and likely more through unreported infections.  Antibody tests will also "weed out" vaccinated people that got the shot but have no immunity and are likely completely unaware they have no protection.  And allow them to take appropriate action to protect themselves with accurate information on their situation.  It will also establish a more accurate figure on the immunized population than just counting vaccines. 

 

But the official push is that everyone needs a shot when medicine and science provide proof they are wrong.  The goal should be immunity no matter how its acquired.  So are they idiots or just intentional screwing up?

Edited August 2, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

We just had a president try to stay in office after losing so I agree with that. 

We are well past that, and things are getting noticeably worse- borderline fascistic, with the collaboration of big corporations, the media, and the State...not good...

[BillStime]

Typical - only matters when it hits home

 

 

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Dr. Fauci said their studies show that vaccinated people can have the same high viral load in their nasal passages as unvaccinated people so they are not protecting anyone as long as the viral load is high.  So that protection you cite isn't generated by vaccination. 

 

Here's the thing. Viral load in nasal passages does not necessarily translate to passing on the virus. A lot of investigation into this because we've got a lot of studies that show vaccinated people don't transmit at the same rate as unvaccinated, which is why the CDC reaction to that data may be right, may be not, and they probably reacted on the conservative end. 

 

I suspect we will know a lot more about vaccinated viral load vs. transmission possibilities shortly. 

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Of course, we really don’t know that they are not in a state like NY, do we?  It’s impossible to trust any of the data when politics are involved.  
 

 

 

I don't believe that at large scale. We all can see increasing cases everywhere. In PA they are up 12X from their lows just a few weeks ago. NY up 7x. CA up 9x. Most states may just be behind a curve that Texas and Florida are leading the vanguard on. I hope that I'm wrong (no one but the ghouls who want to be right want more deaths) but I suspect I'm correct. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Sundancer

[All_Pro_Bills]

13 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Here's the thing. Viral load in nasal passages does not necessarily translate to passing on the virus. A lot of investigation into this because we've got a lot of studies that show vaccinated people don't transmit at the same rate as unvaccinated, which is why the CDC reaction to that data may be right, may be not, and they probably reacted on the conservative end. 

 

I suspect we will know a lot more about vaccinated viral load vs. transmission possibilities shortly. 

I can't disagree.  I'm just passing on what Fauci stated when making the recommendation that masks be worn indoors by vaccinated people in higher risk areas because their nasal viral load levels can be high and consistent with those of unvaccinated which could make transmission possible.

Edited August 2, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

 

But the official push is that everyone needs a shot when medicine and science provide proof they are wrong.  The goal should be immunity no matter how its acquired.  So are they idiots or just intentional screwing up?

 

The underlined does not make sense. Getting Covid can kill you and has at least 18 month consequences for some people. Both at a MUCH HIGHER rate than vaxxed. Plus getting Covid usually means you're spreading without knowing it. 

 

The vaccine is the better way to get immunity, without question. 

 

That said, immunity seems to be immunity, no matter how it's acquired. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Sundancer

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Sundancer said:

 

I don't believe that at large scale. We all can see increasing cases everywhere. In PA they are up 12X from their lows just a few weeks ago. Most states may just be behind the curve. I hope that I'm wrong (no one but the ghouls who want to be right want more deaths) but I suspect I'm correct. 

Your belief in the innate good of the politicians and their statisticians is admirable. 

[Sundancer]

41 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Your belief in the innate good of the politicians and their statisticians is admirable. 

 

Thank you for not putting words in my mouth. Not necessary.

 

I just don't believe in giant conspiracy where thousands of participants would need to be involved and these thousands have not been exposed. I don't think Florida lied when their cases were low. I don't think they are lying now that they are setting records. Likewise I don't believe NY was lying either, though the one set of numbers that could be all screwed up is in the March-May data for 2020. That was a cluster, I have no doubt, but again I don't see conspiracy there. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Sundancer