jahbonas Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 This is not just about 2005...but this team is prepared to make a nice 4 year run with young talent like Evans, macgahee,Losman under contract as a core. Clements will be here for 1 of the 4 years....if we are able to obtain a #1 and grab a CB to replace him...thats a top 15 draft pick that we would have for the next 6 years. Its a no-brainer...and allows us to secure the rest of our veterans under the cap. Where would we be now if we had done the same with Winfield?? We'd now have a 1st rd draft pick in their 3rd year contributing...instead we allowed winfield to play his final year on an 8-8 team...if he was gone we'd have had a rookie corner on that team now entering his 3rd year. Take your choice...Clements for 1 year or some top rookie for 6??? We made the poor choice with winfield and chose to take winfield for 1 year...we'd have been far better off had we traded winfield like we should do so now with Clements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Who would give us a first rounder for someone they know we can't afford in 2006 and could sign for free? Additionally, they'd likely be unable to resign him also, so is a 1st round pick worth a year of Nate Clements to any team in the league? I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Who would give us a first rounder for someone they know we can't afford in 2006 and could sign for free? Additionally, they'd likely be unable to resign him also, so is a 1st round pick worth a year of Nate Clements to any team in the league? I'm not so sure. This is the Redskins we're talking about. They'd give Clements the huge deal he'd be looking for next year, just like they did with Coles a few year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 yep, no brainer... for the Phinz, the Jesters and the Patsies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 This is the Redskins we're talking about. They'd give Clements the huge deal he'd be looking for next year, just like they did with Coles a few year ago. 301217[/snapback] Yeah and the only reason the Redskins want Nate is because they traded Bailey for Portis and failed to show Fred Smoot the money. Trading Clements would be foolish on our behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 just pay the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Who would give us a first rounder for someone they know we can't afford in 2006 and could sign for free? Additionally, they'd likely be unable to resign him also, so is a 1st round pick worth a year of Nate Clements to any team in the league? I'm not so sure. 301210[/snapback] While I see your point, it is likely the Redskins (or whoever) would make Clemements signing a new deal, part of the stipulation of any trade. I for one would hate to see Clements go. He has had his mistakes, but I think he is the "playmaker" on what should be a very good defense for another 3 or 4 years. If a defense doesn't have a "playmaker" (you know the guy who always seems to be around the ball, and comes up with the timely fumble or int, like Bennett was during the Super Bowl years), the defense will only be so good. Look at the Dolphins defense, or for that matter our defense of 2002 & 2003, and as good as they were, they could never come up with the clutch plays that great defenses come up with. As our defense gets better at each position, a guy like Clements should flourish. I almost think it would be worth paying him, even if we have to overpay. If we did trade Clements for a top 15 pick, and pick a top prospect CB, you know there will be a 2 year learning curve for him. I for one, want to see this team try to win now, instead of always trying to come up with the clever move for the future. This defense, albeit missing a very important piece in Pat Williams, is on the cusp of greatness, if we don't start dismantling it now. Sure, we have Troy Vincent, but he is not getting younger, and has missed significant playing time the last two years. And, and as nice a surprise Terrance McGee has turned out to be, I really don't see him being a top tier starting CB. Without Pat Williams, the secondary is going to be tested a bit next season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 The no brain part of the deal you suggest may well be the assumption you make that the first round choice is a starter or (even a just a player) for the Bills for 6 years. Even as one who actually thinks pretty highly of TD as a drafter, clearly his record does not indicate this is a stone cold lock: Clements was a good pick (though most would not attribute great play to him unitl year 4 so the 6 year estimate of great play is simply not there in this case), MW had good play overall in my opinion but has been a disappointment and a bit of an adventure, WM was of no value his first year though he is great now but the injury question is still there. All things look positive regarding Evans. Even with this pretty good record which does not track your predictions it is TD himself who estimates that one should only assign a 50/50 possibility to a 1st round choice panning out. Your no-brainer simply requires a lot of brains to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuffan34 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 This is the Redskins we're talking about. They'd give Clements the huge deal he'd be looking for next year, just like they did with Coles a few year ago. 301217[/snapback] Good point! Dan Snyder, more money than brains! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted April 11, 2005 Author Share Posted April 11, 2005 The no brain part of the deal you suggest may well be the assumption you make that the first round choice is a starter or (even a just a player) for the Bills for 6 years. Even as one who actually thinks pretty highly of TD as a drafter, clearly his record does not indicate this is a stone cold lock: Clements was a good pick (though most would not attribute great play to him unitl year 4 so the 6 year estimate of great play is simply not there in this case), MW had good play overall in my opinion but has been a disappointment and a bit of an adventure, WM was of no value his first year though he is great now but the injury question is still there. All things look positive regarding Evans. Even with this pretty good record which does not track your predictions it is TD himself who estimates that one should only assign a 50/50 possibility to a 1st round choice panning out. Your no-brainer simply requires a lot of brains to make it work. 301271[/snapback] Yes (for arguments sake) I do assume that a CB we select with Redskins pick would be a starter....thats very typical. Clements and winfield were both selected in the 20's and came in and started. Tell me the last CB to bust who was drafted top 10 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Does anyone realize that the bills were one game out of the playoffs last year? This is not a rebuilding peroid, not a time to take a step back in order to plan for the future. The future is now young QB's can get good teams over the hump, especially with great defenses to back them up. Keep clements and pay him next year. He plays many facets of the game and is a key aspect of their highly rated defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Does anyone realize that the bills were one game out of the playoffs last year? This is not a rebuilding peroid, not a time to take a step back in order to plan for the future. The future is now young QB's can get good teams over the hump, especially with great defenses to back them up. Keep clements and pay him next year. He plays many facets of the game and is a key aspect of their highly rated defense. 301323[/snapback] Your point is valid, but remember that there now exists a hole at LT and DT (although I am not as worried about DT). Also, I dont know what your outlook is on JP, but I view him as a talented question mark. I for one cant get worked up because he makes some ridiculous remark to a little kid, etc. I need to see results on the field, and until I do, my expectations are not high, so I am not looking at 05 to be a season where the Bills make a superbowl run. Not yet. While I would love to see Nate stay with the Bills, I think that the worst case scenario would be to lose him in 06 and get zero in return. This does not mean that I am in favor of just letting him go either. Mark seems to paint the best possible scenario in another thread, and this imo is based on the premise that eith TD will not cough up the huge bucks, and/or Nate wants out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 OK, this is why we don't trade Clements now, because you can franchise him and trade him. You won't get 2 #1's but you'll get at least one and maybe a player in return. As was so accurately pointed out, someone will give him a huge deal, why not get somethng out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 OK, this is why we don't trade Clements now, because you can franchise him and trade him. You won't get 2 #1's but you'll get at least one and maybe a player in return. As was so accurately pointed out, someone will give him a huge deal, why not get somethng out of it? 301357[/snapback] Because if Nate signs the deal, he will receive approx. 9 million GAURANTEED dollars and become a UFA once again the following year. Woosdon just did this to the Raiders, or should I say that the Raiders did it to themselves? The franchise tag price is VERY high at the CB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 The Bil's pass rush doesn't seem consistent enough to me to forego Clement's experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 IMO Nate needs to stay and get paid. He's a guy that consistently produces turnovers year in/out. He's also become an above average tackler/hitter and a very good cover man. Plus he has an incredible knack for getting yards in the punt return game and (obviously) is willing to play on special teams. He has good size and speed to boot. I will understand if we can't retain him NEXT YEAR due to over-the-top demands from his agent, but I will not be happy if we do not have his services THIS YEAR. Draft picks are far more of a crap shoot than a lot of people want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 I am wondering if TD is starting these discussions with no intent on honoring them. He may be setting up a negotiation for a long term contract extension for NC. So, if NC thinks he may be shuttled around for the next 2 years, he may seriously start thinking about choosing between a less than market price contract with Buffalo. In short, TD maybe wants to force NC to think about these issues one year in advance and hopefully lock him in for a long time. Just a thought ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 IMO Nate needs to stay and get paid. He's a guy that consistently produces turnovers year in/out. He's also become an above average tackler/hitter and a very good cover man. Plus he has an incredible knack for getting yards in the punt return game and (obviously) is willing to play on special teams. He has good size and speed to boot. I will understand if we can't retain him NEXT YEAR due to over-the-top demands from his agent, but I will not be happy if we do not have his services THIS YEAR. Draft picks are far more of a crap shoot than a lot of people want to believe. 301450[/snapback] Fair enough. 4 questions if you will: 1) If you were GM, how much would you be willing to pay NC? Please include the amount of the signing boune. 2) How much do you honestly feel he would be willing to accept? 3) Is there any amount of trade compensation you WOULD be willing to accept for moving him before this season? 4) Are you willing to risk seeing him go and get zero return for him in 06? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 WE HAVE A 1ST YEAR QUARTERBACK!!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK WE SHOULD WEAKEN OUR DEFENSE??!! A no-brainer? Simply entertaining the trade notion makes me nauseous, go back and write your thread about how bored you are this offseason cause the makes nosense unless you are bored. If he's gone it after NEXT year when we franchise him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Fair enough. 4 questions if you will: 1) If you were GM, how much would you be willing to pay NC? Please include the amount of the signing boune. 2) How much do you honestly feel he would be willing to accept? 3) Is there any amount of trade compensation you WOULD be willing to accept for moving him before this season? 4) Are you willing to risk seeing him go and get zero return for him in 06? 301468[/snapback] 1- This is not my area of expertise, but he certainly would be worth a top 10 cb salary and bonus. 2- I think he'll probably be looking for top 5 cb money 3- A healthy Chris Samuels and a lower draft pick would do 4- Yes.. thus is the nature of the game these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts