Is Star Lotulelei A Liability on the DL?

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, that's certainly one opinion. But he lived up to it just fine last year.

Depends on if you are including the ‘veteran process’ money that guys like him, DiMarco, And Lee Smith get. Vets who aren’t worth their dollars on play alone, but what the coach views as valuable in the locker room. 

[Thurman#1]

32 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Depends on if you are including the ‘veteran process’ money that guys like him, DiMarco, And Lee Smith get. Vets who aren’t worth their dollars on play alone, but what the coach views as valuable in the locker room. 

 

 

 

Man, is your desperation to find things to criticize coming out. Your perceptions are skewed, which is why you took a play where Lotulelei ended up wrapped around the RB's leg and somehow found that proved that he wasn't an effort guy, nonsense on the face of it.

 

And as for Lee Smith's contract, it's the 26th highest TE average salary. For a guy who's an excellent blocker, and an acceptable though not especially athletic receiver. That's how contracts work. As the cap goes up, salaries do too. And to pay a guy $9 mill for three years when his last two contracts with Oakland were for $9.35 mill for three years and for $2.25 mill for one year and most recently a three year $9 mill deal almost exactly what Buffalo gave him ... that is only a team paying a guy a very reasonable value.

 

Ridiculous. You're desperate.

 

Star did what they needed him to do last year, and Joe B. - the guy saying he isn't playing as well this year - made that clear.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[GG]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Star did what they needed him to do last year, and Joe B. - the guy saying he isn't playing as well this year - made that clear.

 

Which is a serious problem when you sign a guy for 5 years and he only gives a 1-yr effort.  More and more he's getting single teamed and still loses leverage and position.  And yes, I expect a DT to tackle the RB if he has wrapped up his legs.  I've seen a handful of tackle whiffs by the 2nd highest paid defender.

[Thurman#1]

41 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Which is a serious problem when you sign a guy for 5 years and he only gives a 1-yr effort.  More and more he's getting single teamed and still loses leverage and position.  And yes, I expect a DT to tackle the RB if he has wrapped up his legs.  I've seen a handful of tackle whiffs by the 2nd highest paid defender.

 

 

Again, ridiculous. He's working as hard as he can.

 

And while he had some bad plays yesterday he also had quite a few very good ones.

 

You expect a DT to tackle the RB if he has wrapped up his legs? Yeah, um, did you watch the play? He did tackle him. I wish he'd made a better play but he clearly gave it everything he had.

 

Accepting that he's not playing as well this season - I'm not certain of it, but it certainly seems possible - it's not clear why. Does he have an injury he's playing through for the sake of the team? Dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. If he does, is it temporary or permanent? Dunno, and nobody does. Has his body broken down and will he never be the same at age 29? We don't know.

 

There's no reason to think that he's not trying as hard as he possibly can, beyond the scapegoating and wild overreacting that constantly goes on among football fans.

[Dopey]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Matthew Fairburn article after the Eagles loss (athletic, paywall):

https://theathletic.com/1328600/2019/10/27/this-is-probably-the-loss-that-feels-the-worst-where-do-the-bills-stand-after-getting-pounded-by-the-eagles/?redirected=1

 

“I’m concerned any time a team can run the ball like that on our football team,” Sean McDermott said after the game. “That’s concerning.”

 

That concern didn’t reach Lotulelei in the locker room. The defensive tackle, who is in the second year of a five-year, $50 million contract, said he wasn’t frustrated by the way the Eagles ran the ball. When asked to clarify that he, the man paid handsomely to stop the run, was not frustrated by the Eagles trampling his team, Lotulelei seemed offended.

“No,” he said.

 

He's a good locker guy who doesn't want to publicly blame anyone. Especially the LBs and safeties who were terrible yesterday. He's smart enough not to play the media's game. Good for him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Dopey said:

He's a good locker guy who doesn't want to publicly blame anyone. Especially the LBs and safeties who were terrible yesterday. He's smart enough not to play the media's game. Good for him.

 

C'mon Dopey. 

 

A guy can express frustration "it was a frustrating game all around" or "we had them 3rd and long, we just didn't finish, we've got to look at the tape and get to it" without throwing his teammates under the bus.  As for "smart enough not to play the media's game", if he doesn't know that saying "no" he wasn't frustrated by a big defensive flaw that contributed to our loss, is in fact directly playing into the media's game, he's not that media-smart.

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Man, is your desperation to find things to criticize coming out. Your perceptions are skewed, which is why you took a play where Lotulelei ended up wrapped around the RB's leg and somehow found that proved that he wasn't an effort guy, nonsense on the face of it.

 

And as for Lee Smith's contract, it's the 26th highest TE average salary. For a guy who's an excellent blocker, and an acceptable though not especially athletic receiver. That's how contracts work. As the cap goes up, salaries do too. And to pay a guy $9 mill for three years when his last two contracts with Oakland were for $9.35 mill for three years and for $2.25 mill for one year and most recently a three year $9 mill deal almost exactly what Buffalo gave him ... that is only a team paying a guy a very reasonable value.

 

Ridiculous. You're desperate.

 

Star did what they needed him to do last year, and Joe B. - the guy saying he isn't playing as well this year - made that clear.

 I think the front office should be looking for run stoppers. This team is in desperate need of them. Star takes plays off. McDermott has them on a pretty good rotation, yet Star still seems to be gassed or he is out of shape or he just can’t play the position. Take your pick. Everything is fine on the interior of the d line. 

Lee Smith doesn’t deserve to be on the team. Give me a rookie with upside like Sweeney making dumb penalties over a Vet making them. Smith is good for a penalty a game and it usually comes at the worst time. I am hoping that at some point McDermott will have some leadership that he has cultivated that has talent as well. 

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No he didn't.... but you also once said Marcus Murphy was a good offensive pick up for us so your take on Star isn't surprising. 

 

 

Yeah, he did. He did what they brought him in to do ... which is what he did in Carolina. He plugged up the run. Did a very good job last year.

 

And as so often is true, people without a good point have to misquote to try to make a point. What I said about Murphy wasn't that he was wildly productive or that he'd be around for years, but that he was not a bad value at all.  A vet minimum pickup who averaged well over 4.9 yards per carry for us. Anyone who thinks he wasn't a pretty good pickup at what we paid is just nuts.

 

 

7 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

 I think the front office should be looking for run stoppers. This team is in desperate need of them. Star takes plays off. McDermott has them on a pretty good rotation, yet Star still seems to be gassed or he is out of shape or he just can’t play the position. Take your pick. Everything is fine on the interior of the d line. 

Lee Smith doesn’t deserve to be on the team. Give me a rookie with upside like Sweeney making dumb penalties over a Vet making them. Smith is good for a penalty a game and it usually comes at the worst time. I am hoping that at some point McDermott will have some leadership that he has cultivated that has talent as well. 

 

 

Oh, he takes plays off? Wow, thanks for all the terrific evidence there.

 

I see who you are now.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Ohh ok. You are right then. They paid him nothing(by NFL standards) and he basically did nothing. Good value.??

 

 

Yeah, Scott. Vet min for 4.9 yards per carry. If you think that's nothing, that shows far more about you than it does about Murphy.

 

And yes, something for nothing is indeed pretty much the definition of good value. Do you really not get that?

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[GG]

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Again, ridiculous. He's working as hard as he can.

 

And while he had some bad plays yesterday he also had quite a few very good ones.

 

You expect a DT to tackle the RB if he has wrapped up his legs? Yeah, um, did you watch the play? He did tackle him. I wish he'd made a better play but he clearly gave it everything he had.

 

Accepting that he's not playing as well this season - I'm not certain of it, but it certainly seems possible - it's not clear why. Does he have an injury he's playing through for the sake of the team? Dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. If he does, is it temporary or permanent? Dunno, and nobody does. Has his body broken down and will he never be the same at age 29? We don't know.

 

There's no reason to think that he's not trying as hard as he possibly can, beyond the scapegoating and wild overreacting that constantly goes on among football fans.

 

Do you watch the plays or just go by memory?  As soon as the runner is past Star, he's done.  There is zero effort to play to the whistle.  At least you see Peko hustling to the ball carrier even after he's manhandled.  Star gets off the snap, tries to engage the blockers, then completely stops and watches the rest of the play.  

 

It shouldn't even be an argument because the tape proves it. 

 

I freely admit that I was wrong about criticizing Harry's performance.  Since he went down, the Bills defense is clearly exposed and Star is the biggest reason for it, because his weak play is fully exposing Edmunds' liability as the run defender.

 

Call it the perfect storm, but McD needs to fix the weakness up the middle ASAP

[Thurman#1]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Do you watch the plays or just go by memory?  As soon as the runner is past Star, he's done.  There is zero effort to play to the whistle.  At least you see Peko hustling to the ball carrier even after he's manhandled.  Star gets off the snap, tries to engage the blockers, then completely stops and watches the rest of the play.  

 

It shouldn't even be an argument because the tape proves it. 

 

I freely admit that I was wrong about criticizing Harry's performance.  Since he went down, the Bills defense is clearly exposed and Star is the biggest reason for it, because his weak play is fully exposing Edmunds' liability as the run defender.

 

Call it the perfect storm, but McD needs to fix the weakness up the middle ASAP

 

 

Yup, more opinions with zero evidence. The Lotulelei haters' M.O.

 

The guy who criticized Lotulelei for not getting the "tackle [on] the RB if he has wrapped up his legs," when he in fact did get the tackle ... that guy accusing others of not watching the plays? Yeah, great point.

 

And by the way, when a runner is past a space eater, the space eater is done? Yeah, shocking observation, especially when you notice all the other expensive way over 350 pounders like Dontari Poe and Grady Jarrett and Linval Joseph chasing down so many RBs from behind. Good lord!

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yup, more opinions with zero evidence. The Lotulelei haters' M.O.

 

And by the way, when a runner is past a space eater, the space eater is done? Yeah, shocking observation, especially when you notice all the other expensive way over 350 pounders like Dontari Poe and Grady Jarrett and Linval Joseph chasing down so many RBs from behind. Good lord!

so care to explain this Stud in the middle getting put on skates?

[GG]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yup, more opinions with zero evidence. The Lotulelei haters' M.O.

 

And by the way, when a runner is past a space eater, the space eater is done? Yeah, shocking observation, especially when you notice all the other expensive way over 350 pounders like Dontari Poe and Grady Jarrett and Linval Joseph chasing down so many RBs from behind. Good lord!

 

What are you talking about?  There is ample evidence of his poor play ON FRIGGIN FILM!!!  He's not even double teamed anymore.  He stops when he's run out of the play, while you see 94 and 97 still chasing the carrier down the field.  Yes, you see other big boys still hustling, especially when games are close. 

 

Star looks as checked out as can be.  He's walking back to the line while the play is still going!!!

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so care to explain this Stud in the middle getting put on skates?

 

 

I'm totally sure when you wrote this it seemed to be clear and specific.

 

28 minutes ago, GG said:

 

What are you talking about?  There is ample evidence of his poor play ON FRIGGIN FILM!!!  He's not even double teamed anymore.  He stops when he's run out of the play, while you see 94 and 97 still chasing the carrier down the field.  Yes, you see other big boys still hustling, especially when games are close. 

 

Star looks as checked out as can be.  He's walking back to the line while the play is still going!!!

 

 

 

And yet more moaning about film and evidence without a single actual piece.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

I'm totally sure when you wrote this it seemed to be clear.

 

 

 

And yet more moaning about film and evidence without a single actual piece.

 

 

 

What evidence are you looking for?   Like something that was posted in this exact thread 2 days ago?

[Thurman#1]

13 minutes ago, GG said:

 

What evidence are you looking for?   Like something that was posted in this exact thread 2 days ago?

 

 

 

Yup, four posts in a row acting as if because it's your impression it must be fact, and not a single stitch of evidence.

 

The last and only specific you gave was wrong ... trumpeting that he should have made a tackle that he actually had made.

 

Kinda thought so. But I'll keep looking for all those other 300+ pound fireplugs chasing down all those RBs from behind.

[GG]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Yup, four posts in a row acting as if because it's your impression it must be fact, and not a single stitch of evidence.

 

The last and only specific you gave was wrong ... trumpeting that he should have made a tackle that he actually had made.

 

Kinda thought so. But I'll keep looking for all those other 300+ pound fireplugs chasing down all those RBs from behind.

 

There is evidence.  In this thread!   I'm not doing your homework for you.

 

Keep storming that hill.

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Yup, four posts in a row acting as if because it's your impression it must be fact, and not a single stitch of evidence.

 

The last and only specific you gave was wrong ... trumpeting that he should have made a tackle that he actually had made.

 

Kinda thought so. But I'll keep looking for all those other 300+ pound fireplugs chasing down all those RBs from behind.

ON SKATES 1v1 cant even do his job to keep Edmunds clean

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby

[MAJBobby]

 

Star got 56% of the snaps on defense Sunday (41 total snaps, most the entire year in a game) and the Bills get gashed for 218 yards on the ground.  COINCIDENCE??  I think Not.

 

Now do the Redskins attack the Bills the same way to give MORE evidence of how bad Star is or will we have to wait until Chubb

Edited October 28, 2019 by MAJBobby

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

ON SKATES 1v1 cant even do his job to keep Edmunds clean

 

 

 

Star was far from the only person (and not even the main person) to blame in that play but it was his channel the ball was run through and they kept hitting that inside left zone channel from that point on. Eventually if you are the team's premier run stuffer you gotta take the view that it is your job to get in there make a play and cut off that route.