Broncos Redraft: Chubb still or Allen/Other QB, etc

[Warcodered]

If we're looking at this retroactively from now then would Khalil Mack of been a realistic option for them?

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

We are at 33 votes...and some surprises again here for me I didn't expect, especially after the Giants poll I did about Barkley.  

 

In the Giants poll, around 43% of the voters chose Barkley.  This was interesting to me since RB is often said to a position to not take that high, yet Barkley had the most individual votes.  QB in general had 56% of the votes, but they were spilt almost evenly between Darnold and Allen.  

 

So here I am surprised to see Allen beating out Chubb decisively so far with almost 70% of the votes.  Reason being, Chubb is having a sensational year too and pass rushers are always more valued than RB's in the top 5 of the draft.  Yet, Barkley was able to get 43% of the votes so far even though Darnold, Ward, and Chubb himself were also guys who could garner votes.  But here, with no Darnold or Ward, Chubb is getting crushed so far (albeit somewhat early) by Allen.  I really expected Chubb to get more votes than Barkley just because RB's are not as coveted as pass rushers.  

 

Another surprise:  Josh Rosen does not have a single vote in either Poll.  Some commented in the other thread that Darnold was the reason why since they had Darnold ranked higher than either Josh.  Or they had voted Barkley over any QB.  Well here we are, no Darnold and no Barkley.  Rosen still zero votes.  Still surprised given the intense amount anger that was here by the "wrong Josh" crowd for so long that not one person has casted a single vote for him in either poll.  

 

PS:  WHO VOTED OTHER?  Only ask because I am curious what player is the "other" player.  I didn't see any obvious choice for Broncos to take at #5 than Chubb or one of the QB's.  Nothing wrong with "other" vote, just curious to who the other player is I am not thinking of.  

BPA.

Barkley is the best player to come out in years. Every single win the giants have is off of his back. With a mildly competent offensive scheme, they'll be in the playoff hunt for the next 8 years. If they can find good QB play, they'll be championship contenders with no other additions. Elite RBs get a bad name when teams like the Sanders Lions, the Peterson Vikings, and the Tomlinson Chargers think they can just run the ball every play and win championships. The kid is sensational, and it was all on tape for every GM to see prior to the draft.

The jury's still out on all the QBs, but the case is closed on Barkley.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This is the other side of the pillow of posts.

 

Not sure if serious 

[Rochesterfan]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The Giants poll I started seems to have been a great thread, no insults lots of good comments, insight and discussion on all sides of the fence.  Well Broncos have a similar narrative to the Giants last year, so here goes:

 

Broncos had the 5th pick and clearly needed a QB.  They elected to sign Keenum and hoped they would get the guy who sparked the Vikes last year for the next 2 seasons so they could rebuild other parts of the team and get right back into contention.  The draft fell lucky for them in this regard as they got to snag Bradley Chubb who was a top overall pick talent but got him at #5 when most figured he would go either #1 to Browns, #2 to Giants or #4 to Browns in most mock drafts.  So at #5 he certainly felt like a steal.  

 

And, like Barkley, Chubb has lived up to every part of the hype sitting at almost 50 tackles and 12 sacks with a shot to break the rookie sack record.  So he has been everything as advertised.  However, Keenum has been a disappointment for Broncos and they enter 2019 as a team that probably (and should be) looking for a new QB...either a rookie to groom behind Keenums final year or an available vet via FA or Trade to upgrade from Keenum. 

 

Keenum:  225 yds/g, 15 TD's, 10 Int

 

So...you are again the GM of the Broncos.  Do you stay the course and take Chubb who is proving to be as good as advertised to pair with guys like Von Miller for years to come and hope you Defense can get back to Elite...or do you look at the opportunity to take that rookie QB that can potentially be the anchor of the franchise for the next decade.  

 

Making this more interesting is Darnold was gone, so not an option this time who was popular in Giants poll.  As of the time of this, Giants poll saw 43.6% stick with Barkley and 53.94% pick one of the QB's (spilt basically 50% between Allen and Darnold).  Lamar had 1 vote, and Rosen had none.  I dont think "other" will get any votes this time, the Giants one did because guys like Ward and Chubb were out there.  But dont know of anyone other than a QB that Broncos would take here over Chubb, so not expecting any votes there but included it anyway.  

 

Answering my own question:

This is a harder choice for me than Barkley, and even that one was a tough choice.  But elite pass rushers are more coveted than elite RB's, so feels like more reason to stick with Chubb vs sticking with Barkley.  However, that defense is still multiple pieces away from getting back to that 2015 team that won them a SB with a weak passing game and elite D.  So is the better long term solution to go with a QB instead in what was believed, and still looks, to be a deep QB class?  

 

Personally, I would go Allen again because I have a strong belief in Allen getting there, and if he does get there as a passer, he will be special given all the physical gifts he has and that is a hard thing to find.  If Chubb was the missing piece to an Elite D, I would certainly have a harder time passing on Chubb, but they still need some more pieces before that D can support a mediocre offense.  Where as I think they would be in better shape sooner taking Allen and pairing him with those RB's and WR's they have.  

 

 

I stayed with Chubb - to me this is easier because they picked up a QB in Case to get them through a couple of years because they still have an elitish defense.  

 

I think Vance Joseph is just a terrible coach for that team and that hurts the team. 

 

Allen would be the QB I would choose there, but I think they are happy with what they got.

[SoCal Deek]

The Broncos seem a lot like the Bills from a few years back. They’ve got their Tyrod in Case Keenum and will finish with a respectable record but out of the playoffs. In a year or two they’ll have gone nowhere and look back wondering what we’re they thinking not taking a QB!

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

BPA.

Barkley is the best player to come out in years. Every single win the giants have is off of his back. With a mildly competent offensive scheme, they'll be in the playoff hunt for the next 8 years. If they can find good QB play, they'll be championship contenders with no other additions. Elite RBs get a bad name when teams like the Sanders Lions, the Peterson Vikings, and the Tomlinson Chargers think they can just run the ball every play and win championships. The kid is sensational, and it was all on tape for every GM to see prior to the draft.

The jury's still out on all the QBs, but the case is closed on Barkley.

 

I just do not think Barkley was worth the investment and I certainly do not see them getting 8 years of playoff hunt out of Barkley.

 

Everything they have won is on his back and he is piling up touches - nearly 300 so far, but when you look at top rushing backs - all are under 4 years in the league.  

 

By the time the Giants replace Eli (maybe 2019 draft) and you get the competent play from the young QB - Barkley will be 3 or 4 years in and will already at or past his peak.

 

The case may be open on the QBs, but top QBs right now are playing 15+ years in the current NFL.  Barkley should be easily one of the top offensive as RBs come into the league more ready to play (see UDFA - Lindsey in Denver), but top RBs start to decline after 4 or 5 years and are out of the league by 7 or 8 years.  

 

I would always take a chance on a top QB over a RB just based on worth in the league, what they do for a franchise, and how long they are valuable in the league.

[PIZ]

I hope Allen can do this some day.  

 

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I think they still go Chubb. Kid has been spectacular. Allen, while he looks like he's going to progress and become good is still a bit off. 

 

Keenum hasn't been terrible. Coaching not playing the offense to his and Lindsay's strength has been an issue there.

 

I'm wondering if the Cards or Dolphins arent kicking themselves more that they didnt give up a bit more to get Allen. Or if the Phins regret not taking Lamar. Tbose should be good topics to bring up as well!

[Thriftygamer83]

@Alphadawg7 my brothers-in-law does not discus Josh Allen with me.  He himself is a Patriots fan and thought they would trade into the top of the draft.  Getting Allen to spark the offensive lineman and giving Brady someone to teach.  When they stayed with the 22nd and took Wynn he was completely shocked.  

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

@Alphadawg7 my brothers-in-law does not discus Josh Allen with me.  He himself is a Patriots fan and thought they would trade into the top of the draft.  Getting Allen to spark the offensive lineman and giving Brady someone to teach.  When they stayed with the 22nd and took Wynn he was completely shocked.  

 

Haha thank god the Pats didn’t leap frog us and get Allen.