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Shaw66

THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Just Plain Bad

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2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

great fans like you are owed an apology for having to sit there

 

 

 

That's where I disagree with you and a lot of other people.  It has been well established that the Bills suck at historic levels this season.  If you still go to the game, it's on you. No apology owed.

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44 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

great fans like you are owed an apology for having to sit there

 

 

You know, I hate to sound like I'm entitled, because I'm not, but that's how I felt.   

 

You know what I wanted to have happen?  I wanted Beane to tell McDermott that Beane would handle the post-game press conference.   I wanted to Beane to stand up there and tell us HE was embarrassed and HE is going to do something about it.   Don't fire McDermott, but just by being there, it would send a message to McDermott.  The message is "if you can't change this, I will get someone who can."   That's what the fans deserve to hear.  

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Just now, Shaw66 said:

You know, I hate to sound like I'm entitled, because I'm not, but that's how I felt.   

 

You know what I wanted to have happen?  I wanted Beane to tell McDermott that Beane would handle the post-game press conference.   I wanted to Beane to stand up there and tell us HE was embarrassed and HE is going to do something about it.   Don't fire McDermott, but just by being there, it would send a message to McDermott.  The message is "if you can't change this, I will get someone who can."   That's what the fans deserve to hear.  

You won't hear that cause Beane is GM in name only. I really believe McDermott is the guy who is doing the majority of building of this team. 

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43 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

That's where I disagree with you and a lot of other people.  It has been well established that the Bills suck at historic levels this season.  If you still go to the game, it's on you. No apology owed.

You're right.  There is no apology owed.   It's not like McDermott and everyone else isn't trying. 

 

Still, that's how I felt.  It doesn't feel like it to the team, but thousands of fans FEEL like they're members of the team.  And we're upset the same way Kyle Williams probably is upset, or Jerry Hughes, or LeSean McCoy.   They're not happy, and we're unhappy in the same way.   Williams and Hughes and McCoy aren't owed apologies, either.   But everyone of us agrees - this sucks.

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22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Rockpile Review – by Shaw66

 

Just Plain Bad

 

It’s 10:30 p.m. Sunday.  Several hours earlier the Bills have lost to the Chicago, by a score of, as usual, some big number to, as usual, some number less than ten.  I’m in the parking lot of the Blandford Service area on the eastbound side of Interstate 90 in Massachusetts.  There on the wet pavement is a standard Buffalo Bills cap.  Has it fallen accidentally out of someone’s car as they he stopped to use the facilities on the way home from the game?  Or was it discarded intentionally, a deliberate and final act to terminate a relationship simply too painful to continue?  Should I drop my cap there too, and my other Bills gear, forming a small, temporary memorial to two former Bills fans?

 

There’s bad football and there are bad football teams.  Even good teams occasionally make bad plays or have bad games.  In the case of the Buffalo Bills, there is little reason to make such distinctions.  The Buffalo Bills are a bad football team that plays bad football and has plenty of bad games.

 

And to go to the heart of the matter, the Buffalo Bills have bad coaching. 

 

In five of the Bills’ seven losses, the Bills have been uncompetitive on the scoreboard, demonstrating early in the game that they had no chance to win.  In one of the seven, the Texans, the Bills made bad plays at the end of the game to lose.  Looking back from the perspective of early November, the Bills’ win over the Vikings looks no less like divine intervention than Jules Winnfield surviving a barrage of bullets unharmed in Pulp Fiction . 

 

Someone needs to tell Sean McDermott that he insults our intelligence standing at the podium each week, telling us that the Bills have to study some film, clean up some problems, play complementary football, improve, continue the process.  The truth that everyone knows is that the Bills don’t clean up the problems, they don’t play complementary football and they don’t get better.  The truth is that although there is some process by which football teams improve and become winners, there is no evidence that McDermott’s process is accomplishing that. 

 

The magnitude of the Bills ineptitude is so great that the examination of any single play cannot properly demonstrate and explain the extent of the failure of the coaching of this team.  However, one play from the Bills’ embarrassing loss to the Bears on Sunday is emblematic.  With a minute left in the first quarter, the Bills punted, and after a return of zero yards by the Bears, Logan Thomas clearly and unnecessarily hit the return man out  of bounds.  A fifteen-yard penalty was assessed against the Bills.

 

Even semi-conscious fans immediately knew it was a stupid play, it was bad football.  (By the way, being semi-conscious or worse for that game was probably the way to go.)  The important point is not that the penalty was inexcusable.  The important point is found in the answer to this question:  Why is a football player who has been part of McDermott’s all-important “process” for one and a half seasons making that play? 

 

The answer is that the process is failing, which means that McDermott is failing.  Thomas made that play because he has failed to learn lessons that good coaches teach their players.  There only a few reasons why he failed to learn the lesson:  (1)  The lesson isn’t taught – bad coaching.  (2)  The lesson is taught but not in a way that Thomas actually learns it – bad coaching.  (3)  The lesson is taught properly and Thomas either can’t learn or refuses to learn it; in either of those cases, Thomas should not be on the team – bad coaching. 

 

Here’s another example:  How many times yesterday did Peterman throw into the flat and have his receiver hit promptly by two defenders?   At least three or four, by my recollection.  One of those plays resulted in Croom fumbling and the Bears returning the recovered fumble for a touchdown, giving the Bears an insurmountable (if you’re playing the Bills) 14-0 lead.  A couple of the others left me wondering if all of the appendages of the solitary Bill remained attached to his torso.  Yes, Croom should have held onto the ball, but it doesn’t help to leave him 1-on-2, defenseless.

 

Now, think for a moment how many times you’ve seen a Bills defender one-on-one with a receiver in the flat like that.   Dozens.  Why is it that the Bears had two defenders out there, and the Bills have only one?  The answer almost certainly is some combination of the Bears knowing the Bills tendencies, the Bears having so much respect for Croom that they decide to double cover him (really?), the Bills only have two or three receivers in the pattern, or the Bears have left some other downfield area under-protected that the Bills are not attacking. 

 

Why is Nate Peterman throwing the ball for minimal gain into what effectively is double coverage, where his teammate is outmanned and has no help?  Why isn’t he reading the defense, a pretty simple read, and throwing the ball into the under-defended area of the field?  Why hasn’t Peterman learned that lesson in a year and a half?  (In order to save time, I’ll just copy what I said above.)  There are only a few reasons why he failed to learn the lesson:  (1)  The lesson isn’t taught.  – bad coaching.  (2)  The lesson is taught but not in a way to Peterman actually learns it – bad coaching.  (3)  The lesson is taught properly and Peterman either can’t learn or refuses to learn it; in either of those cases, Peterman should not be on the team – bad coaching. 

 

I’ll say it again:  McDermott insults our intelligence when he asks us to trust a process that consistently fails to change how players play.

 

Another example:  the Bills scored a touchdown (no, that is not a typographical error) and after a penalty against Chicago, the Bills opted to go for two points.  What’s the play?  A simple fade to Pryor in the deep corner of the end zone.  Now, when teams first began throwing the fade into the end zone, eight years ago or whenever, it was novel and effective.  Defensive backs have long since figured out how to defend that play; it succeeds only with a precision throw and an excellent catch.  In other words, it’s a low probability play.  Good football teams rarely run the straight fade any more, unless they have a great thrower and/or a great receiver.  Any semi-conscious fan etc.

 

And please, if you ARE going to the throw the fade, at least throw to Benjamin, who is the one guy on the team who actually has an advantage over the defender. 

 

Like a lot of coaches, McDermott is fond of saying that the coaches’ job is to put players in positions in which they can succeed.  What part of asking your backup second year QB to throw a pinpoint fade to your brand new, and previously unsuccessful, young wideout (instead of your number one receiver, whose SOLE advantage is elevating for balls the defender can’t reach) is putting your players in a position to succeed?

 

Want another example of the creativeness of the Bills’ offensive approach?   How about the wildcat?  An offensive change of pace that ceased being effective maybe five years ago and that the Bills had run extensively the week before.  The Bears had seen it on film and were prepared for it.  But wait, the Bills really crossed up the Bears: they ran it with Pryor instead of Shady.  Bad coaching.

 

Want a good play?  Early in the game, Croom was split out into the slot, shifted into a tight slot and revealed that the Bears were man-to-man.  On the snap, Croom ran a shallow slant across the defense toward the left flat, taking advantage of the mismatch and outrunning his man.  Peterman hit him easily.  THAT’s modern football.   Did we see it again?  No.

 

Some will argue that the problem is talent (or lack of it) and not coaching.  Some will say, as an example, that the offensive was unable to open any holes for McCoy all day, and it was unable to move the Bears off the ball in multiple attempts to score from the one-yard line.  Those examples are true, but it is equally true that the Bears had enormous difficulty moving the Bills off the line, too.  The Bears had no more rushing success than the Bills, and the Bills often stuffed them on short yardage.  Offensive line talent is spread pretty evenly across the league, and very few teams win by overwhelming their opponents with talent.  (The Bills’ offensive line, by the way, did a good job protecting Peterman.  Peterman, on the other hand, didn’t always do a good job finding targets and getting rid of the ball on time.)

 

There’s no doubt the Bills are not putting an all-star lineup on the field, but it doesn’t take talent to play smart, disciplined football.  That takes coaching, and the coaching is failing.  

 

Another example, as though another example is necessary:  The punt coverage team losing containment on the return man.  Shorthand this time:  Either containment isn’t taught (coaching failure), it isn’t taught in a way the players can learn it (coaching failure), or the players are incapable of learning it or won’t learn it (coaching failure).  It doesn’t take outstanding talent to cover punts; it takes training and execution of what’s been taught. 

 

Bottom line:  a mediocre Bears offense comes to New Era Field and is more or less completely shut down by the Bills defense, gaining only 190 yards.  The Bills give up 14 points on turnovers   They give up another bundle of points by giving the Bears’ offense short fields on the Thomas penalty, Peterman’s interception, and an onside kick necessitated by all the bad football earlier in the game. 

 

That was a winnable football game for any decent team.  It was out of reach early because the Bills are THAT bad. 

 

For years I’ve told disbelieving friends that I travel to see the Bills as much as I do because I’m a loyal fan.  I tell them the Bills are working on getting better.  Driving home after the Bears game I had a lot of time to think about why I travel to see the Bills.  There’s no good explanation other than it’s a bad habit.  

 

My Bills caps and my sweatshirts too, and my zubas and my Bills Santa/elf cap are still in my trunk, but to be honest, I don’t know why.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

Post of the yr. 

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1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

You won't hear that cause Beane is GM in name only. I really believe McDermott is the guy who is doing the majority of building of this team. 

I don't think so, but you may be right.   

 

But if you're the Pegulas and McDermott walks into your office and says Beane has to go, and Beane then walks into your office and says McDermott has to go, whom do you believe?   If I'm the Pegulas and someone has to go, it's McDermott.   Beane at least got me Allen.  

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9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think so, but you may be right.   

 

But if you're the Pegulas and McDermott walks into your office and says Beane has to go, and Beane then walks into your office and says McDermott has to go, whom do you believe?   If I'm the Pegulas and someone has to go, it's McDermott.   Beane at least got me Allen.  

 

They both go in that case. But I think it is more likely everyone stays.  Pegula bought what McBeane was selling, so unless he can hire someone noticeably better, he'll ride it out with McBeane.

 

They'll make a token human sacrifice for the fans of probably the OC and ST coaches and maybe Peterman, I'm thinking not much more than that.

 

Edited by CodeMonkey

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4 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

They both go in that case. But I think it is more likely everyone stays.  Pegula bought what McBeane was selling, so unless he can hire someone noticeably better, he'll ride it out with McBeane.

 

They'll make a token human sacrifice for the fans of probably the OC and ST coaches and maybe Peterman, I'm thinking not much more than that.

 

I agree that's what's going to happen.  McBeane definitely get a third year.  But if next year looks like this year, one or both will be gone.  

5 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I miss Chan Gailey.

You know that if Chan Gailey were the coach, Peterman never would have seen the field.  Chan cut Trent Edwards, and Peterman makes Trent look like a borderline HOF player.  

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29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I hate to sound like I'm entitled, because I'm not, but that's how I felt.   

 

You know what I wanted to have happen?  I wanted Beane to tell McDermott that Beane would handle the post-game press conference.   I wanted to Beane to stand up there and tell us HE was embarrassed and HE is going to do something about it.   Don't fire McDermott, but just by being there, it would send a message to McDermott.  The message is "if you can't change this, I will get someone who can."   That's what the fans deserve to hear.  

 

Fair enough.

 

Beane would have been nice at the presser, maybe this Sunday?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think so, but you may be right.   

 

But if you're the Pegulas and McDermott walks into your office and says Beane has to go, and Beane then walks into your office and says McDermott has to go, whom do you believe?   If I'm the Pegulas and someone has to go, it's McDermott.   Beane at least got me Allen.  

If I'm the Pegulas and someone has to go its clearly Beane in my humble opinion.

 

Sure, I'm grateful for Allen although the Pegula's probably had everything to do with it.

 

I'm not grateful for the lack of veteran leadership or Oline protection Beane has provided for a rookie that wasn't even supposed to be playing If it wasn't for the GM's screw ups to begin with IMO.

 

Shaw do you honestly think there is a coach in the league thats going to win football games with Peterman behind center?

 

I don't...

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30 minutes ago, Figster said:

Shaw do you honestly think there is a coach in the league that's going to win football games with Peterman behind center?

 

I don't...

I think half of the coaches in the league, given the Bills in July, would not have put up the string of ugly losses that we're witnessing.   I don't know if the Bills would be winning, but they wouldn't be the laughingstock of the league.   

 

Half of the coaches in the league would have told Beane to cut Peterman and keep McCarron.   

 

 

Edited by Shaw66
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43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You know that if Chan Gailey were the coach, Peterman never would have seen the field.  Chan cut Trent Edwards, and Peterman makes Trent look like a borderline HOF player.  

 

Oh, My.  I was all set to tell you you're FOS there, then I looked up the numbers and gotta say - you're right, dammit.

I can not unsee what my eyes have seen.

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10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, My.  I was all set to tell you you're FOS there, then I looked up the numbers and gotta say - you're right, dammit.

I can not unsee what my eyes have seen.

Whenever I take a step back and look at what's happening, I'm amazed. 

 

This is a remarkably bad team.   It defies logic.  

 

How can you have a defense that good and get blown out that badly, over and over again?

 

How can scoring a touchdown be as rare as an unassisted triple play?

 

How can a team supposedly based on discipline and organization have all those penalties?

 

How can your talented rookie quarterback be hoping that he'll wake up tomorrow and discover that it's all been a dream and he actually was drafted by the Saints?

 

I do feel sorry for Nate.  I don't generally subscribe to the theory that playing a QB too soon is a career can ruin him, but I can't see how he'll ever be confident enough in his game to realize his future, which was to be a decent journeyman backup.  I give him a lot of credit for having the courage to even throw the ball.  

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On 11/5/2018 at 2:31 PM, Shaw66 said:

The Rockpile Review – by Shaw66

 

Just Plain Bad

 

It’s 10:30 p.m. Sunday.  Several hours earlier the Bills have lost to the Chicago, by a score of, as usual, some big number to, as usual, some number less than ten.  I’m in the parking lot of the Blandford Service area on the eastbound side of Interstate 90 in Massachusetts.  There on the wet pavement is a standard Buffalo Bills cap.  Has it fallen accidentally out of someone’s car as they he stopped to use the facilities on the way home from the game?  Or was it discarded intentionally, a deliberate and final act to terminate a relationship simply too painful to continue?  Should I drop my cap there too, and my other Bills gear, forming a small, temporary memorial to two former Bills fans?

 

There’s bad football and there are bad football teams.  Even good teams occasionally make bad plays or have bad games.  In the case of the Buffalo Bills, there is little reason to make such distinctions.  The Buffalo Bills are a bad football team that plays bad football and has plenty of bad games.

 

And to go to the heart of the matter, the Buffalo Bills have bad coaching. 

 

In five of the Bills’ seven losses, the Bills have been uncompetitive on the scoreboard, demonstrating early in the game that they had no chance to win.  In one of the seven, the Texans, the Bills made bad plays at the end of the game to lose.  Looking back from the perspective of early November, the Bills’ win over the Vikings looks no less like divine intervention than Jules Winnfield surviving a barrage of bullets unharmed in Pulp Fiction . 

 

Someone needs to tell Sean McDermott that he insults our intelligence standing at the podium each week, telling us that the Bills have to study some film, clean up some problems, play complementary football, improve, continue the process.  The truth that everyone knows is that the Bills don’t clean up the problems, they don’t play complementary football and they don’t get better.  The truth is that although there is some process by which football teams improve and become winners, there is no evidence that McDermott’s process is accomplishing that. 

 

The magnitude of the Bills ineptitude is so great that the examination of any single play cannot properly demonstrate and explain the extent of the failure of the coaching of this team.  However, one play from the Bills’ embarrassing loss to the Bears on Sunday is emblematic.  With a minute left in the first quarter, the Bills punted, and after a return of zero yards by the Bears, Logan Thomas clearly and unnecessarily hit the return man out  of bounds.  A fifteen-yard penalty was assessed against the Bills.

 

Even semi-conscious fans immediately knew it was a stupid play, it was bad football.  (By the way, being semi-conscious or worse for that game was probably the way to go.)  The important point is not that the penalty was inexcusable.  The important point is found in the answer to this question:  Why is a football player who has been part of McDermott’s all-important “process” for one and a half seasons making that play? 

 

The answer is that the process is failing, which means that McDermott is failing.  Thomas made that play because he has failed to learn lessons that good coaches teach their players.  There only a few reasons why he failed to learn the lesson:  (1)  The lesson isn’t taught – bad coaching.  (2)  The lesson is taught but not in a way that Thomas actually learns it – bad coaching.  (3)  The lesson is taught properly and Thomas either can’t learn or refuses to learn it; in either of those cases, Thomas should not be on the team – bad coaching. 

 

Here’s another example:  How many times yesterday did Peterman throw into the flat and have his receiver hit promptly by two defenders?   At least three or four, by my recollection.  One of those plays resulted in Croom fumbling and the Bears returning the recovered fumble for a touchdown, giving the Bears an insurmountable (if you’re playing the Bills) 14-0 lead.  A couple of the others left me wondering if all of the appendages of the solitary Bill remained attached to his torso.  Yes, Croom should have held onto the ball, but it doesn’t help to leave him 1-on-2, defenseless.

 

Now, think for a moment how many times you’ve seen a Bills defender one-on-one with a receiver in the flat like that.   Dozens.  Why is it that the Bears had two defenders out there, and the Bills have only one?  The answer almost certainly is some combination of the Bears knowing the Bills tendencies, the Bears having so much respect for Croom that they decide to double cover him (really?), the Bills only have two or three receivers in the pattern, or the Bears have left some other downfield area under-protected that the Bills are not attacking. 

 

Why is Nate Peterman throwing the ball for minimal gain into what effectively is double coverage, where his teammate is outmanned and has no help?  Why isn’t he reading the defense, a pretty simple read, and throwing the ball into the under-defended area of the field?  Why hasn’t Peterman learned that lesson in a year and a half?  (In order to save time, I’ll just copy what I said above.)  There are only a few reasons why he failed to learn the lesson:  (1)  The lesson isn’t taught.  – bad coaching.  (2)  The lesson is taught but not in a way to Peterman actually learns it – bad coaching.  (3)  The lesson is taught properly and Peterman either can’t learn or refuses to learn it; in either of those cases, Peterman should not be on the team – bad coaching. 

 

I’ll say it again:  McDermott insults our intelligence when he asks us to trust a process that consistently fails to change how players play.

 

Another example:  the Bills scored a touchdown (no, that is not a typographical error) and after a penalty against Chicago, the Bills opted to go for two points.  What’s the play?  A simple fade to Pryor in the deep corner of the end zone.  Now, when teams first began throwing the fade into the end zone, eight years ago or whenever, it was novel and effective.  Defensive backs have long since figured out how to defend that play; it succeeds only with a precision throw and an excellent catch.  In other words, it’s a low probability play.  Good football teams rarely run the straight fade any more, unless they have a great thrower and/or a great receiver.  Any semi-conscious fan etc.

 

And please, if you ARE going to the throw the fade, at least throw to Benjamin, who is the one guy on the team who actually has an advantage over the defender. 

 

Like a lot of coaches, McDermott is fond of saying that the coaches’ job is to put players in positions in which they can succeed.  What part of asking your backup second year QB to throw a pinpoint fade to your brand new, and previously unsuccessful, young wideout (instead of your number one receiver, whose SOLE advantage is elevating for balls the defender can’t reach) is putting your players in a position to succeed?

 

Want another example of the creativeness of the Bills’ offensive approach?   How about the wildcat?  An offensive change of pace that ceased being effective maybe five years ago and that the Bills had run extensively the week before.  The Bears had seen it on film and were prepared for it.  But wait, the Bills really crossed up the Bears: they ran it with Pryor instead of Shady.  Bad coaching.

 

Want a good play?  Early in the game, Croom was split out into the slot, shifted into a tight slot and revealed that the Bears were man-to-man.  On the snap, Croom ran a shallow slant across the defense toward the left flat, taking advantage of the mismatch and outrunning his man.  Peterman hit him easily.  THAT’s modern football.   Did we see it again?  No.

 

Some will argue that the problem is talent (or lack of it) and not coaching.  Some will say, as an example, that the offensive was unable to open any holes for McCoy all day, and it was unable to move the Bears off the ball in multiple attempts to score from the one-yard line.  Those examples are true, but it is equally true that the Bears had enormous difficulty moving the Bills off the line, too.  The Bears had no more rushing success than the Bills, and the Bills often stuffed them on short yardage.  Offensive line talent is spread pretty evenly across the league, and very few teams win by overwhelming their opponents with talent.  (The Bills’ offensive line, by the way, did a good job protecting Peterman.  Peterman, on the other hand, didn’t always do a good job finding targets and getting rid of the ball on time.)

 

There’s no doubt the Bills are not putting an all-star lineup on the field, but it doesn’t take talent to play smart, disciplined football.  That takes coaching, and the coaching is failing.  

 

Another example, as though another example is necessary:  The punt coverage team losing containment on the return man.  Shorthand this time:  Either containment isn’t taught (coaching failure), it isn’t taught in a way the players can learn it (coaching failure), or the players are incapable of learning it or won’t learn it (coaching failure).  It doesn’t take outstanding talent to cover punts; it takes training and execution of what’s been taught. 

 

Bottom line:  a mediocre Bears offense comes to New Era Field and is more or less completely shut down by the Bills defense, gaining only 190 yards.  The Bills give up 14 points on turnovers   They give up another bundle of points by giving the Bears’ offense short fields on the Thomas penalty, Peterman’s interception, and an onside kick necessitated by all the bad football earlier in the game. 

 

That was a winnable football game for any decent team.  It was out of reach early because the Bills are THAT bad. 

 

For years I’ve told disbelieving friends that I travel to see the Bills as much as I do because I’m a loyal fan.  I tell them the Bills are working on getting better.  Driving home after the Bears game I had a lot of time to think about why I travel to see the Bills.  There’s no good explanation other than it’s a bad habit.  

 

My Bills caps and my sweatshirts too, and my zubas and my Bills Santa/elf cap are still in my trunk, but to be honest, I don’t know why.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

 

 

Great job Shaw!  Excellent work. 

 

My only rebuttal is that it is not all coaching, but coaching is a part of it.   We have a roster that has been stripped down for two years and is now almost completely devoid of talent.  The offense has only two players that are worthy to start on an NFL team - McCoy and Dawkins, and McCoy is looking like he is ready for a reduced role.   

 

The defense has been good at times but just wait until Kyle Williams, Jerry Hughes and Lorenzo Alexander leave ... the offense is so bad that it needs all of the top draft picks for the next 2 years to begin to recover and you and I know that we need linebacker depth and another starting CB. 

 

The backup depth is bad and you see it on special teams with penalties and poor kick/punt coverage in every game. 

 

When you look at all the players we traded, and then all the picks we traded to move up in the draft and then look at the return it is not pretty.   

 

It is starting to look like McDermott and Beane are over their heads but they get another year and in the next year they have tons of cap room and another bunch of draft picks.  We will be picking in the top 4 for sure.   Lets see what happens. 

 

 

Edited by Bob in STL
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2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, I hate to sound like I'm entitled, because I'm not, but that's how I felt.   

 

You know what I wanted to have happen?  I wanted Beane to tell McDermott that Beane would handle the post-game press conference.   I wanted to Beane to stand up there and tell us HE was embarrassed and HE is going to do something about it.   Don't fire McDermott, but just by being there, it would send a message to McDermott.  The message is "if you can't change this, I will get someone who can."   That's what the fans deserve to hear.  

One problem with that. Beane reports to Sean. Calling Beane a GM when he's more of a sidekick. I'm convinced McD runs this whole show.

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think half of the coaches in the league, given the Bills in July, would not have put up the string of ugly losses that we're witnessing.   I don't know if the Bills would be winning, but they wouldn't be the laughingstock of the league.   

 

Half of the coaches in the league would have told Beane to cut Peterman and keep McCarron.   

 

 

Ugly O play is a result of poor decision making by the Bills GM in regards to the Oline and QB position in my opinion. We have the cheapest Oline in the NFL and its not a very intelligent way to build a football team. Better Oline play and perhaps McCarron could show what kind of player he is without getting injured. 

 

Could a young HC with enough on his plate already do more? I suppose, but how about the Bills GM doing the job he is supposed to be doing.

Edited by Figster

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10 minutes ago, Figster said:

Ugly O play is a result of poor decision making by the Bills GM in regards to the Oline and QB position in my opinion. We have the cheapest Oline in the NFL and its not a very intelligent way to build a football team.

 

Could a young HC with enough on his plate already do more? I suppose, but how about the Bills GM doing the job he is supposed to be doing.

I'd like to think it was cooperative decision making.

 

I'd like to think, because it's the only justification that makes even a little bit of sense, that they thought they had enough talent on board on the offensive line to make it through the season.  Wrong judgment, but at least that would be consistent with their desire to build through the draft. 

 

I'd guess that McD convinced Beane that Peterman was for real, and together they decided in that case they didn't need a backup.   There simply is no question than McDermott has consistently mis-evaluated the level of Peterman's ability.   

 

But even if what I'm guessing went on is true, it's pretty obvious that those were the wrong decisions.   Losing your two best offensive linemen and trading away another (Glenn), together with drafting a QB and a bunch of defensive players clearly was not the correct formula.  

 

None of that causes me to change my fundamental point: whoever the 53 are, they've been poorly coached.  

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6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'd like to think it was cooperative decision making.

 

I'd like to think, because it's the only justification that makes even a little bit of sense, that they thought they had enough talent on board on the offensive line to make it through the season.  Wrong judgment, but at least that would be consistent with their desire to build through the draft. 

 

I'd guess that McD convinced Beane that Peterman was for real, and together they decided in that case they didn't need a backup.   There simply is no question than McDermott has consistently mis-evaluated the level of Peterman's ability.   

 

But even if what I'm guessing went on is true, it's pretty obvious that those were the wrong decisions.   Losing your two best offensive linemen and trading away another (Glenn), together with drafting a QB and a bunch of defensive players clearly was not the correct formula.  

 

None of that causes me to change my fundamental point: whoever the 53 are, they've been poorly coached.  

The Bills have the youngest team in the NFL with rookies now when Allen returns at the 2 most important positions on O and D. 

 

I think its easy to say the team is poorly coached when you look at the results so far. On the other hand I think its easy to understand why youth and lack of experience on a whole, especially at key positions, is resulting in poor execution IMO.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think half of the coaches in the league, given the Bills in July, would not have put up the string of ugly losses that we're witnessing.   I don't know if the Bills would be winning, but they wouldn't be the laughingstock of the league.   

 

Half of the coaches in the league would have told Beane to cut Peterman and keep McCarron.   

 

 

But who's decision is it cut a QB - is that entirely on the coach[es], or does a coach confer with a GM? Same question for all roster personal - is the GM's job just to bring in the best talent he can that's a scheme-fit, and then after that, the roster's on the coach?

Edited by Roch-A-Bill

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The only flaw I saw in the OP's post was with Pryor. He is a good fade possibility. He's 6'4"" and 228 lbs with high athletic ability. Garbage play, maybe, but not because of trying it with Pryor.....

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Seems to me most Hall of Fame and future Hall of Fame coaches have great QBs. So are great coaches a product of their abilities as a coach or the excellent play from their QBs?

 

Bill B was a sub 500 coach until he landed in New England and Tom Brady took over. Levy? Same thing until Kelly took the field. Jimmy Johnson? Didn't do squat without guys like Emitt, Aikman and Irvin. Holmgren and Favre. Reid and McNabb. Peyton and Brees. Dungy and Manning. Walsh and Montana. Cowher is still considered one of the best and he didn't win the big one until Big Ben came to town.

 

In all those examples you could go in either direction. And both are right because it is a combination of the two that elevates middle of the road, slightly above average teams to greatness. And when one of these things starts to really falter, even the other's greatness can't overcome it. Look at Marino, Rivers, Stafford for example. All gifted at their position. A combination of lousy personnel choices and bad coaching held them back from winning it all.

 

My point is, it is almost impossible to evaluate McDermott and company based on the year and a half we've seen. This was always a rebuild. I thought it was a credit to him last year, winning 9 games. Even more so after seeing what the offense looks like this year. This isn't a bad team, it's a bad half of a team. Guys like Rodgers and Stafford would kill to have a defense as good as the Bills defense. And it's a defense that gets put into a multitude of terrible positions by what is historically, one of the top 5 worst offenses to ever take an NFL football field. And it's no coincidence that one of the worst QBs to ever play professional football has been under center for a good portion of the season.

 

There is simply no amount of coaching, scheming and game planning that can account for awful players. The only 3 guys you'd see even play on another team are Dawkins, Benjamin and McCoy. And even then, these would not be feature players. Benjamin is eating himself out of the league, McCoy is over the hill and really only Dawkins I could see in a true starting capacity on any other team. So one guy. Two when Allen is on the field, since most teams understand there is a development curve to any QB. Coaching isn't going to overcome that. And they must have known. Sitting Allen wasn't the plan because of Allen. Sitting Allen was the plan because of the talent on the offensive side of the football.

 

I've commented in a few threads here that Beane and McDermott desperately need to find scouts and advisers that are as good at the offensive side of the football as they are at defense. Until then, this team will be what it is. Half of a team.

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4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You know that if Chan Gailey were the coach, Peterman never would have seen the field.  Chan cut Trent Edwards, and Peterman makes Trent look like a borderline HOF player.  

 

No one will ever convince me that Gailey's skill position talent was better than McD's. 

Stevie, Donald Jones, David Nelson, Brad Smith, and Fast Freddie Smith at WR? I'll take Benjamin/Zay and 10 total games of Kearse/Pryor. Even Andre Holmes is better than Donald Jones. 

Give me Clay/Croom over Chandler and... Lee Smith? Don't remember, but there wasn't much there. 

There's an argument that Gailey had better RBs, but Spiller was really bad as a rookie and Marshawn was traded that year. Freddy was great, obviously. I'd say it's roughly a wash against Shady/Ivory. 

 

Point is, as bad as our skill position guys are, Gailey had it worse. And didn't exactly have a stellar QB or O-line. And yet we still had a semi-competitive NFL offense. in 2018, our offense is on pace to be maybe the worst in league history. That can't just be chalked up to lack of talent. To be the worst ever requires abject failure across the board. No one involved gets excused - not Beane, not McDermott, not Daboll, not any of the position coaches, not any of the players. 

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35 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

No one will ever convince me that Gailey's skill position talent was better than McD's. 

Stevie, Donald Jones, David Nelson, Brad Smith, and Fast Freddie Smith at WR? I'll take Benjamin/Zay and 10 total games of Kearse/Pryor. Even Andre Holmes is better than Donald Jones. 

Give me Clay/Croom over Chandler and... Lee Smith? Don't remember, but there wasn't much there. 

There's an argument that Gailey had better RBs, but Spiller was really bad as a rookie and Marshawn was traded that year. Freddy was great, obviously. I'd say it's roughly a wash against Shady/Ivory. 

 

Point is, as bad as our skill position guys are, Gailey had it worse. And didn't exactly have a stellar QB or O-line. And yet we still had a semi-competitive NFL offense. in 2018, our offense is on pace to be maybe the worst in league history. That can't just be chalked up to lack of talent. To be the worst ever requires abject failure across the board. No one involved gets excused - not Beane, not McDermott, not Daboll, not any of the position coaches, not any of the players. 

I liked Gailey.

 

When he left, he said he'd coached in a lot of cities and the Bills were the only one of his former teams he'd always root for.  Quality guy.  

 

As for your analysis, I think you make fair points.  People complain about the Bills talent, and it certainly isn't top-end talent, but most of the talent on the field is marginal NFL talent.   There are very few guys who don't deserve to be playing somewhere in the league.  

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Shaw?

what did everyone expect a rebuild to look like?

heres a hint...it looks like this!!

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