Concern about the GM's Experience

[Believer]

Beane, McDermott, Daboll, Frazier, the Assistants did not build a roster to win... and did not prepare the team to win today... Total team failure... Top to bottom... The Pegulas should be concerned by what we saw today... Been a Bills fan since the Saban Era... Grew up cheering for Cookie and Jack... Today was an indictment on The Process... 

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I see it pretty much the same way.  I don’t think that McCarron would have looked much better than Peterman with this group, but I’d rather have him back to repack Peterman as the starter instead of having to throw Allen into this disaster.   As you said, both the WRs and OL are major problems.  Not much chance of success with that combination no matter who plays QB.

 

NOw Allen will be fed to the wolves and it won’t take beyond next game for some to start calling him a bust.

 

I expected the offense to be awful, but I was shocked by how poorly the defense played.  I know that they have problems rushing the passer, but i didn’t expect anything like that performance.

 

I am hoping the defense is actually better than what we saw and they wore down due to the putrid performance of the offense - ZERO first downs in the first half. 

 

The time of possession was so skewed the entire first half.  We gave up some big plays on 3rd down, that can be corrected.  We  did not get enough pressure on the QB so they kept passing and the WR's always have the edge on the CB's in slick rainy weather. 

[freeagentqb]

18 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It is easy to see this is a tear down. Last year wasn't supposed to happen. The roster was purged. Next year they will begin to build it up. 

 

I don't think the Bills are very good at tear down and buildups as their history shows (4-5 good years out of 60).  Think they'll purge the roster some more and build it up with more crap - and the beat goes on..  They're as good with trades as they are with the draft.....

[The Frankish Reich]

37 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I’m still upset that BB couldn’t force teams to trade away their good o-lineman. Certainly a good GM could have gotten it done.

Or maybe it would have made sense to spend that free agent money on the O line or a competent veteran bridge QB instead of on non-Star Lotulelei and Trent "look what PEDs can do" Murphy?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, bobm said:

 

I don't think the Bills are very good at tear down and buildups as their history shows (4-5 good years out of 60).  Think they'll purge the roster some more and build it up with more crap - and the beat goes on..  They're as good with trades as they are with the draft.....

They've done it twice that I can remember. Donahoe and Nix/Whaley. I think the build up was ok, both times built great defense. Neither guy drafted the right QB. QB is always the problem. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

They've done it twice that I can remember. Donahoe and Nix/Whaley. I think the build up was ok, both times built great defense. Neither guy drafted the right QB. QB is always the problem. 

No way.  None of the Nix/Whaley and Donahoe teams every played a playoff games

 

The successful build ups were orchestrated by Lou Saban (twice),  Chuck Knox, and Bill Polian.   John Butler was part of the Polian build up and he was able to keep it going for awhile. 

 

After that, nothing. 

[freeagentqb]

Don't think adding one or two elite players via the draft is going to help that much.  There are too many holes to fill on both sides of the ball.  God forbid if Josh isn't a superstar QB, were screwed long term.  Thought we would be more competitive under this new regime, but instead, in my opinion, played the worst football I've seen in many years, if not THE worst. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by bobm
punctuation

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, bobm said:

Don't think adding one or two elite players via the draft is going to help that much.  There are too many holes to fill on both sides of the ball.  God forbid if Josh isn't a superstar QB, were screwed long term.  Thought we would be more competitive under this new regime, but instead, in my opinion, played the worst football I've seen in many years, if not THE worst. 

IF we did add two elite players (Allen and Edmunds) then that is great and when these guys actually become elite they will make a big, big difference. 

 

that said, the supporting cast has to improve.  We need immediate help at RG, C, LG, WR, OLB, and CB.  Assuming Allen has a good season. 

[Happy]

22 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I expected the offense to be awful, but I was shocked by how poorly the defense played.  I know that they have problems rushing the passer, but i didn’t expect anything like that performance.

 

Well said.  The defense was very disappointing.  Have to wonder what Frazier was thinking/trying to accomplish.

 

What worries me is the FAs that Beane and McD picked up, so far this has been very underwhelming.  Say what you want about Whaley as a GM, but he really shined in finding diamonds in the FA rough.  I wish there was a way to replace the current pro personnel scouts with that of Whaley's tenure.

 

This past draft class will take a few years to evaluate.

[mjt328]

Fans really need to be patient, and let Brandon Beane's plan come to fruition.  If this team isn't pointing up by the middle/end of next season, then we can start talking.  Until then, it's just ridiculously premature.

 

Nobody wants to deal with a rebuilding season.  It's ugly to watch, and it's easy to get impatient.  But until Beane arrived, this organization was stuck in a perpetual state of .500 football, with no playoffs in 17 years and no franchise quarterback.  He decided that our best course wasn't to add talent to the foundation, but to blow up the foundation and start over. 

 

Many are frustrated with the lack of talent we added this offseason, and want to blame Beane for not fielding a competitive team.  But looking at our resources, I just don't see how much more he could have done. 

 

We only had so many draft picks, and it was absolutely vital to the plan for them to secure Josh Allen with the first trade up.  We absolutely could not walk out of this draft without our QB of the future, and anyone who disagrees is not worth listening to.  Even without the trade-up for Tremaine Edmunds, we would only have had one extra 3rd Round choice.  That's it.

 

In free agency, Beane used the little cap space he had to improve the D-Line.  Maybe time will tell that he overpaid for Star Lotulelei and Trent Murphy, but I think we should give them a little bit longer than Week 1 to call them busted pickups.  The Vontae Davis addition looks pretty bad so far, but EJ Gaines only played 11 games last year and is already hurt again.  I can't blame them for letting him walk.  After the Davis, Lotulelei and Murphy signings, we didn't have the cash to make any other splash signings.  Right now, the Bills are sitting with less than $9 million in cap space.  So it's not like they had a ton of money to go out and upgrade the other weak spots.  We had to settle for guys like Russell Bodine and Marshall Newhouse.

 

And for all of the complaining about the O-Line, don't forget that Ritchie Incognito retired in April - AFTER all the best free agents had been picked clean and AFTER the draft was finished.  The Bills had restructured his contract and were counting on him playing this season.  It's not Beane's fault that Incognito screwed his teammates over.

 

I get it.  We have big holes on the offensive line, at wide receiver and at cornerback.  We will likely be starting a rookie quarterback sooner than later.  We probably won't be very competitive in 2018.  But that was never the plan.  The plan was to develop Allen, get Edmunds some experience.  Next year we have an estimated $90 million in cap space.  We have virtually no players (Kyle Williams and maybe Kelvin Benjamin) needed to re-sign.  And we have a full slate of draft picks.

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

No way.  None of the Nix/Whaley and Donahoe teams every played a playoff games

 

The successful build ups were orchestrated by Lou Saban (twice),  Chuck Knox, and Bill Polian.   John Butler was part of the Polian build up and he was able to keep it going for awhile. 

 

After that, nothing. 

Polian was part of the build up, not the tear down. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were already drafted. There is a huge difference. 

 

 

[freeagentqb]

2 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

IF we did add two elite players (Allen and Edmunds) then that is great and when these guys actually become elite they will make a big, big difference. 

 

that said, the supporting cast has to improve.  We need immediate help at RG, C, LG, WR, OLB, and CB.  Assuming Allen has a good season. 

Very true- lots of holes to fill.  Is it me or do the Bills play some of the worst football at times - often looking sloppy, under-talented, badly coached and out-classed?  Losing is one thing, but laying a hugh egg is another, and I'm really getting sick of it.

[Bob in STL]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Polian was part of the build up, not the tear down. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were already drafted. There is a huge difference. 

 

 

yes, Polian was part of the build up.  that is what I said. 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

I am not going to say fire anyone so relax.  In fact, the problems the Bills have experienced in the past 18 years has come from a complete lack of stability in coaching and front office.   For that reason we need to not fire Beane or McDermott although people will be calling for it as this season progresses. 

 

Beane seems like a bright guy and all.  No doubt he has made some good moves, collected some draft picks, and will clean up our cap issue starting next season.  This being his first GM job, coupled with his total overall inexperience, will lead to some questions about the moves he made in the past offseason.  Clearly he needs to learn from this and do better. 

 

The 3 moves, or non moves, that will plague us this season are:

 

1.  McCarron - Drafting Allen as QB of the future is fine.  Signing McCarron to compete for a starting spot was not.  McCarron and Peterman are not NFL caliber players.  He should have brought in someone with experience as a starter.  We have no one to groom Josh Allen and with McCarron gone, and Peterman now toasted, we have to play Allen sooner than anyone wanted.   Not a good situation. 

 

2.  OL -  Lose Wood due to injury/retirement - bad luck.  Trade Cordy Glenn due to injuries and salary - I get it.  Lose Ritchie due to whatever craziness was happening -now its time to make a big move to bring in a legitimate player.  Instead he brings in hte mediocre at best Bodine and Newhouse and both were low cost moves for marginal NFL players. 

 

3.  WR - everyone complains about the OL but I think this WR group is the worst in the league, the worst in Bills history, and a bigger problem than the OL.  As bad as the OL was today, the WR's did not get open and did not catch the ball when they were.  The best of the bunch is Benjamin and he played an uninspired game against the Ravens, dropping a TD and giving up on several balls, including one of Peterman's poor INTs. 

 

My biggest concern right now is having to play Allen on a team with such poor talent on offense. 

 

I still have faith in McDermott to pick up the pieces as he did last year.  Hopefully week 1 was a "preseason hangover" and they can right the ship next week at home.

 

 

I think you have to add the decision to give that FA money to Murphy and Star to your list.  This line is his choice and defense is his specialty.   He knew he could't fix those things you mentioned and that's why I don't get upset about it.  The defense is made up of mainly his players and it got smoked.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

yes, Polian was part of the build up.  that is what I said. 

Yeah, it's a lot harder to tear down and then build up rather than continue something that was already started. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[Believer]

Just watched McDermott’s post game presser... He was clearly downbeat... but think he did a decent job responding to questions thoughtfully... Took responsibility with coaches... Plans to review the performance of coaches and players...

[Bob in STL]

6 minutes ago, bobm said:

Very true- lots of holes to fill.  Is it me or do the Bills play some of the worst football at times - often looking sloppy, under-talented, badly coached and out-classed?  Losing is one thing, but laying a hugh egg is another, and I'm really getting sick of it.

It is not you.  It happens to the Bills quite often but it happens to lots of teams. 

 

McDermott has had 4 games now where he and his team was not prepared play.

 

today his plan to play a loose zone in the rain was a joke.   the Ravens did the opposite and jammed our crappy WRs at the line, rushed more than 4, and put all kinds of pressure on the QBs.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Bob in STL

[mjt328]

24 minutes ago, bobm said:

 

I don't think the Bills are very good at tear down and buildups as their history shows (4-5 good years out of 60).  Think they'll purge the roster some more and build it up with more crap - and the beat goes on..  They're as good with trades as they are with the draft.....

 

The current front office has nothing to do with anyone else who ran this franchise in the past. 

 

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

I think you have to add the decision to give that FA money to Murphy and Star to your list.  This line is his choice and defense is his specialty.   He knew he could't fix those things you mentioned and that's why I don't get upset about it.  The defense is made up of mainly his players and it got smoked.  

Well, Ill give him and these players more than one game.  My concern on OL and WR stems from the GM not helping a poor and inexperienced group of QBs. 

[freeagentqb]

5 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Fans really need to be patient, and let Brandon Beane's plan come to fruition.  If this team isn't pointing up by the middle/end of next season, then we can start talking.  Until then, it's just ridiculously premature.

 

Nobody wants to deal with a rebuilding season.  It's ugly to watch, and it's easy to get impatient.  But until Beane arrived, this organization was stuck in a perpetual state of .500 football, with no playoffs in 17 years and no franchise quarterback.  He decided that our best course wasn't to add talent to the foundation, but to blow up the foundation and start over. 

 

Many are frustrated with the lack of talent we added this offseason, and want to blame Beane for not fielding a competitive team.  But looking at our resources, I just don't see how much more he could have done. 

 

We only had so many draft picks, and it was absolutely vital to the plan for them to secure Josh Allen with the first trade up.  We absolutely could not walk out of this draft without our QB of the future, and anyone who disagrees is not worth listening to.  Even without the trade-up for Tremaine Edmunds, we would only have had one extra 3rd Round choice.  That's it.

 

In free agency, Beane used the little cap space he had to improve the D-Line.  Maybe time will tell that he overpaid for Star Lotulelei and Trent Murphy, but I think we should give them a little bit longer than Week 1 to call them busted pickups.  The Vontae Davis addition looks pretty bad so far, but EJ Gaines only played 11 games last year and is already hurt again.  I can't blame them for letting him walk.  After the Davis, Lotulelei and Murphy signings, we didn't have the cash to make any other splash signings.  Right now, the Bills are sitting with less than $9 million in cap space.  So it's not like they had a ton of money to go out and upgrade the other weak spots.  We had to settle for guys like Russell Bodine and Marshall Newhouse.

 

And for all of the complaining about the O-Line, don't forget that Ritchie Incognito retired in April - AFTER all the best free agents had been picked clean and AFTER the draft was finished.  The Bills had restructured his contract and were counting on him playing this season.  It's not Beane's fault that Incognito screwed his teammates over.

 

I get it.  We have big holes on the offensive line, at wide receiver and at cornerback.  We will likely be starting a rookie quarterback sooner than later.  We probably won't be very competitive in 2018.  But that was never the plan.  The plan was to develop Allen, get Edmunds some experience.  Next year we have an estimated $90 million in cap space.  We have virtually no players (Kyle Williams and maybe Kelvin Benjamin) needed to re-sign.  And we have a full slate of draft picks.

 

 

 

 

You may be right but for me I don't have much faith in the Bills improving.  Been a fan since 1960 and witnessed too may rebuilds, retooling and other such nonsense to only fall short again and again. 

 

I'm truly fed up with the wait till next year bit.

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

The current front office has nothing to do with anyone else who ran this franchise in the past. 

 

You are correct, but so far am not impressed.  Not calling for any firings or purges - just disappointed with what I have seen.