Cover 1: Aaron Quinn's "Closing Arguments" Case for Starting Allen

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

I stand corrected on the Keuchly part.

 

Regardless no Short or Poe helps out our OL a  bunch, plus their top corners were a rookie and Seymour. Cleveland and Cincy D's would grade as more difficult imo than that and should be taken into account when rating the performances against the 1's

 

Not to mention Gregg Williams bringing pressure by dialing up blitz packages that aren't normally run in preseason. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not to mention Gregg Williams bringing pressure by dialing up blitz packages that aren't normally run in preseason. 

Also not to mention there is a marked difference in quality between the first, second, and third preseason games. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Also not to mention there is a marked difference in quality between the first, second, and third preseason games. 

 

Good point. 

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

My bad.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000946744/Panthers-vs-Bills-highlights-Preseason-Week-1

 

Right off the bat at t bottom of the screen -- why was Kuechly covering a WR? 

 

 

Because he can. He can literally cover any position on the field at LB. They'll have him taking on pulling guards one play and covering the slot out on the sideline on the next. Kuechly is one of the best LBs I've ever seen, period.

[jrober38]

52 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

I stand corrected on the Keuchly part.

 

Regardless no Short or Poe helps out our OL a  bunch, plus their top corners were a rookie and Seymour. Cleveland and Cincy D's would grade as more difficult imo than that and should be taken into account when rating the performances against the 1's

 

You're still reaching. Seymour is listed as a starter on their current depth chart. 

 

That was Carolina's starting defense whether it fits the narrative you want to push or not. Some guys weren't healthy, but that's life for most teams in the NFL on an ongoing basis. 

 

Peterman looked great against an opponent's starters. McCarron and Allen looked horrible. Allen said himself that he was surprised by the speed of the game, which is pretty significant  when considering whether or not he's ready to play at that speed week in and week out. 

 

It's also extremely concerning when you factor in that it's preseason, and the Bengals ran a pretty vanilla D without a proper game plan to stop us and it gave our rookie QB major problems reading the field pre and post snap. 

 

I honestly don't understand the rush to see Allen on the field. The guy was a project who needs to learn a lot. His short performance against the Bengals showed he's not ready yet which is fine. He was a 2-3 year project anyways. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by jrober38

[Bray Wyatt]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

You're still reaching. Seymour is listed as a starter on their current depth chart. 

 

That was Carolina's starting defense whether it fits the narrative you want to push or not. Some guys weren't healthy, but that's life for most teams in the NFL on an ongoing basis. 

 

Peterman looked great against an opponent's starters. McCarron and Allen looked horrible. Allen said himself that he was surprised by the speed of the game, which is pretty significant  when considering whether or not he's ready to play at that speed week in and week out. 

 

I honestly don't understand the rush to see Allen on the field. The guy was a project who needs to learn a lot. His short performance against the Bengals showed he's not ready yet which is fine. He was a 2-3 year project anyways. 

 

Reaching for what? The point I was making is that Carolina's D wasn't at full strength and isn't as good as the others.

 

I believe I made my point. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Reaching for what? The point I was making is that Carolina's D wasn't at full strength and isn't as good as the others.

 

I believe I made my point. 

 

Fine. It wasn't as good as the others, but saying those weren't their starters is fake news. 

 

Peterman looked by far the best against a starting defense in the preseason. The other two guys looked awful. 

[26CornerBlitz]

41 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Fine. It wasn't as good as the others, but saying those weren't their starters is fake news. 

 

Peterman looked by far the best against a starting defense in the preseason. The other two guys looked awful. 

 

Sure if you'd like to completely ignore the huge disparity in pass protection. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Did I read someone say that  no one blitzes in preseason?    

 

Thats all you see from defensive "bullies" in the preseason 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/24/browns-gregg-williams-blitz-eagles-nick-foles-tyrod-taylor

 

Subtlety is not the NFL’s strong suit, but it was interesting to see some people on Twitter Thursday speculating that Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams was blitzing too much against the Eagles in primetime.

 

By my count, the Browns blitzed seven times in the first half with the starters in. Jim Schwartz seemed to return the favor with 6:38 to go in the half by sending eight men. Tyrod Taylor looked like he got choke-slammed by Jordan Hicks amid an all-out rush that ended the drive.

 

 

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

Fine. It wasn't as good as the others, but saying those weren't their starters is fake news. 

 

Peterman looked by far the best against a starting defense in the preseason. The other two guys looked awful. 

thats a stretch and why people get defensive about Josh 

 

Josh has done OK for himself being a rookie and all.   

 

AJM.. I was disappointing in what I saw . 

[jrober38]

51 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Sure if you'd like to completely ignore the huge disparity in pass protection. 

 

Peterman gets the ball out faster, making his protection look better than it actually was. 

 

He made a great throw to convert a long 3rd down after escaping the pocket when his protection completely broke down. He rolled right, and threw a perfect ball to Benjamin where only he could catch it on the sideline.

 

Last Sunday, he converted a 3rd and 18 with a perfectly timed throw to Jeremy Kerley where the ball was out of his hand before Kerley made his break for the ball. As the All-22 showed, Josh Allen double clutched it on each the #4 and #5 sack when he could have let it fly, but as his scouting reports said, he doesn't do a good job throwing with anticipation yet, and instead of making a play like Peterman, he took a couple bad sacks. 

 

It's easy to blame everything on everyone but Allen, but reality is that he still has a long way to go before he's ready to successfully lead an NFL offense. 

21 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

thats a stretch and why people get defensive about Josh 

 

Josh has done OK for himself being a rookie and all.   

 

AJM.. I was disappointing in what I saw . 

 

6 of 12 (50%) for 34 yards (2.8 YPA), 5 sacks for 39 yards lost, and no points on the board.

 

Yeah, Josh did "okay."

 

*sarcasm* 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Peterman gets the ball out faster, making his protection look better than it actually was. 

 

He made a great throw to convert a long 3rd down after escaping the pocket when his protection completely broke down. He rolled right, and threw a perfect ball to Benjamin where only he could catch it on the sideline.

 

Last Sunday, he converted a 3rd and 18 with a perfectly timed throw to Jeremy Kerley where the ball was out of his hand before Kerley made his break for the ball. As the All-22 showed, Josh Allen double clutched it on each the #4 and #5 sack when he could have let it fly, but as his scouting reports said, he doesn't do a good job throwing with anticipation yet, and instead of making a play like Peterman, he took a couple bad sacks. 

 

It's easy to blame everything on everyone but Allen, but reality is that he still has a long way to go before he's ready to successfully lead an NFL offense. 

 

Nice try, but the tape don't lie. He wasn't under duress in the Panthers' game.  Same thing against the Bengals once their 2nd /3rd team D was in.

 

 

Nice, clean pockets on all three of these well executed throws. 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Nice, clean pockets on all three of these well executed throws. 

 

Yeah but the argument is that the pocket was clean because he threw the ball on time before the pass rush had a chance to get to him. I don't know for sure how true that is, I'll leave it up to the coaches. But you can't really deny Peterman throws the ball about a half second quicker than Josh Allen which is an eternity in the pocket.

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Nice try, but the tape don't lie. He wasn't under duress in the Panthers' game.  Same thing against the Bengals once their 2nd /3rd team D was in.

 

 

Nice, clean pockets on all three of these well executed throws. 

 

Peterman gets the ball out quickly. He reads the field pre snap, and pulls the trigger almost all the time to the guy he thinks is going to get open. As a player, he reminds me a lot of Ryan Fitpatrick who did the same thing really well. With a subpar arm, you need to have a quick release, and Peterman has surely shown that to be the case over the last 13 months. 

 

Allen on the other hand held the ball and got sacked. Allen literally said himself that the game moved too fast and he didn't really have a chance to read the defense pre snap. No surprise he locked onto guys who didn't get open, had to look for his 2nd, or 3rd read against pressure and it didn't work. Allen admited the game moved too fast for him. 

 

When Allen had the chance to pull the trigger on his 3rd, 4th, and 5th sacks, the pocket was still "clean" by NFL standards. Unfortunately for him, his inexperience didn't feel pressure and he held the ball too long thinking he had more time, and he got sacked. That extra half second in the pocket against an NFL defense is an eternity. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by jrober38

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but the argument is that the pocket was clean because he threw the ball on time before the pass rush had a chance to get to him. I don't know for sure how true that is, I'll leave it up to the coaches. But you can't really deny Peterman throws the ball about a half second quicker than Josh Allen which is an eternity in the pocket.

 

The pass pro was excellent on all three occasions with Peterman pulling the ball down before delivering the ball to on the 1st to Benjamin.  The 3rd throw he had time to work through progressions before making an excellent throw to Reilly.  Plenty of time on all three.  Film don't lie!

[Bray Wyatt]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Nice try, but the tape don't lie. He wasn't under duress in the Panthers' game.  Same thing against the Bengals once their 2nd /3rd team D was in.

 

 

Nice, clean pockets on all three of these well executed throws. 

 

The Reilly and Benjamin (seemed to double clutch here) throws he had plenty of time and no pressure on him. The only one where he got back and threw it right away was the Kerley one

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The pass pro was excellent on all three occasions with Peterman pulling the ball down before delivering the ball to on the 1st to Benjamin.  The 3rd throw he had time to work through progressions before making an excellent throw to Reilly.  Plenty of time on all three.  Film don't lie!

 

Sorry but that's the play design on the throw to Reilly.

 

You don't throw the skinny post against Vanilla Cover 2 by locking onto the post as your #1 read unless you want to send your WR off the field on a stretcher. 

 

The first "read" isn't really a read in the sense that you have to look at another guy to hold the safeties and open up the alley in between the safeties. 

 

Peterman did it to perfection. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by jrober38

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Sorry but that's the play design on the throw to Reilly.

 

You don't throw the skinny post against Vanilla Cover 2 by locking onto the post as your #1 read unless you want to send your WR off the field on a stretcher. 

 

The first "read" isn't really a read in the sense that you have to look at another guy to hold the safeties and open up the alley in between the safeties. 

 

Peterman did it to perfection. 

 

The point remains.  He had no pressure at all on him. 

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Peterman gets the ball out faster, making his protection look better than it actually was. 

 

He made a great throw to convert a long 3rd down after escaping the pocket when his protection completely broke down. He rolled right, and threw a perfect ball to Benjamin where only he could catch it on the sideline.

 

Last Sunday, he converted a 3rd and 18 with a perfectly timed throw to Jeremy Kerley where the ball was out of his hand before Kerley made his break for the ball. As the All-22 showed, Josh Allen double clutched it on each the #4 and #5 sack when he could have let it fly, but as his scouting reports said, he doesn't do a good job throwing with anticipation yet, and instead of making a play like Peterman, he took a couple bad sacks. 

 

It's easy to blame everything on everyone but Allen, but reality is that he still has a long way to go before he's ready to successfully lead an NFL offense. 

 

6 of 12 (50%) for 34 yards (2.8 YPA), 5 sacks for 39 yards lost, and no points on the board.

 

Yeah, Josh did "okay."

 

*sarcasm* 

One of the toughest things for a NFL qb to do is to accurately throw a man open. Josh will learn to do this with time.

[jrober38]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The point remains.  He had no pressure at all on him. 

 

The other point remains. The ball came out perfectly on time, and Peterman split the defense with a dart in between 2 defenders, after he perfectly froze the safeties by giving Benjamin a look even though he was never going to give him the ball.

 

The fade to Benjamin was another perfect read. 8 in the box with a single high safety and your WR facing bump and run. Throw it up against the smaller corner and let him make a play.

 

The throw to Kerley showed amazing anticipation. He throws a perfect pass on 3rd and 18 to a spot where only his guy can catch it, long before his receiver is even out of his break.

 

3 good reads, and 3 excellent throws. He showed arm strength on the 1st one, the ability to read the defense and throw with touch on the 2nd, and he threw with great anticipation and ball placement on the 3rd one.

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

One of the toughest things for a NFL qb to do is to accurately throw a man open. Josh will learn to do this with time.

 

Seems like you're probably contradicting yourself.

 

I think most scouts would tell you that QBs generally don't learn to throw with anticipation at the NFL level. It's one of those things you either have or don't have.

 

Tyrod never learned to do it. Most guys are like him. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Again, plenty of time here on the throw to Reilly.