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Thurmanator 12074

Amazing Superbowl Film, this is special, like you have never seen before

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7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not taking anything away from his NFC Champ game and Super Bowl, he had a great 2 game stretch.  But 2 games doesn't form a career, and sure, those are the 2 most recent games, but he has a long career that is underwhelming and had 2 teams give up on him during that span too. 

 

What the 2 games can do, is get a guy paid, like Larry Brown when he was Super Bowl MVP.  And I am worried Foles is the next Larry Brown.  He was the weak link on the defense, Steelers tried to pick on him, and he had the game of his life and was MVP of the Super Bowl.  Despite an underwhelming career, and the guy mostly seen as one of the weak links on the Cowboy defense, the Oakland Raiders gave him a big fat contract that very offseason in a very Al Davis move.  

 

Result:  He was cut by the Raiders less than a year later after one season after proving he was still the same guy he was going into that Super Bowl, and not the heroic player he was for the Super Bowl and even the strong NFC Champ game he had.  

 

Bottom line:  Don't over value 2 games when there is a large body of evidence that suggests a different story.  

A QB that shined under two different OCs when the play calls were tailored to his strengths is hardly comparable to a CB who had a few passes thrown right as his face mask. That's a reach, a big reach. Talking dollars with Brown against draft capital to acquire  Foles who is under contract, I don't see how that example makes a case against Foles. The only relation they have is super bowl MVP.

 

If Daboll loves RPOs as has been suggested Foles should definetly be a consideration depending on his availability. I have no illusions that he is the next Joe Montana but he would be a significant upgrade and depending on how the draft shakes out the Bills could easily be on the outside looking in when the QBs come off the board.

 

 

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guys foles just hammered the Pats and the top ranked viking Defense. The guy was under intense pressure and played lose and made perfect passes in tight windows and is very coachable he did this against a patriots def that was giving up like 13 points a game over the last 10 reg season games. The guy is a very good QB that has a lot of talent. We would be lucky to have him as a Qb and he seams like just they type of Qb that are coach and gm would love. Did any of you nay sayers even watch what he just did on this playoff run.That is some special stuff and he has matured as a Qb and he's in his prime and ready for a 10 year run. I want that run to be in Buffalo. Could Tyrod Taylor have done that if he was the Eagles QB for the Playoffs. I REALLY DON'T THINK SO 

Edited by Thurmanator 12074

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2 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

guys foles just hammered the Pats and the top ranked viking Defense. The guy was under intense pressure and played lose and made perfect passes in tight windows and is very coachable he did this against a patriots def that was giving up like 13 points a game over the last 10 reg season games. The guy is a very good QB that has a lot of talent. We would be lucky to have him as a Qb and he seams like just they type of Qb that are coach and gm would love. Did any of you nay sayers even watch what he just did on this playoff run.That is some special stuff and he has matured as a Qb and he's in his prime and ready for a 10 year run. I want that run to be in Buffalo. Could Tyrod Taylor have done that if he was the Eagles QB for the Playoffs. I REALLY DON'T THINK SO 

 

So the three team deal to get Jimmy G isn't going to happen? ;)

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I never said it was corner blitz, I  just reported what I read on a few of the bills Facebook and twitter sites. Thats all, I never said it was going to happen, I know you don't like me and just lay in wait to mock me, but what ever floats your boat 

Edited by Thurmanator 12074

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54 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Except, ironically it actually isnt.  If you average out the 6 games against each other, its really not much different.

4 playoff games, and in every single one he has had a rating of over 100 (and he had a very good game against ATL after the first series). Don't forget his spot-duty performance in KC last season too; he was good. How much of it is attributable to Jeff Fisher?

 

Also, regarding the last game of the season this year, the Eagles were in high injury prevention mode. They had clinched home field. 

Edited by dave mcbride

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8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So the three team deal to get Jimmy G isn't going to happen? ;)

 

 

You never know it still could depends on if Cousins Get traded or signs with the 49ers. If the coach there who has reported to want Cousins can get him then Jimmy G will have to be traded  

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

4 playoff games, and in every single one he has had a rating of over 100 (and he had a very good game against ATL after the first series). Don't forget his spot-duty performance in KC last season too; he was good. How much of it is attributable to Jeff Fisher?

 

Also, regarding the last game of the season this year, the Eagles were in high injury prevention mode. They had clinched home field. 

 

 

You mean that same Jeff Fisher that had Case Keenam and Goff and Foles and could not score points to save there life when any of these QB's . Yes the QB killer Jeff Fischer.

I would not count any statistics or results produced from these QB's if Jeff Fischer was involved. Lok at what happen after they got away from him 

 

Goff wins the division 

Keenan goes to NFC title game 

Foles wins the Superbowl 

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You mean when he averaged a measly 222 yards per game?  That season?  Big deal, he had a streak where he had a good TD:INT ratio in LESS than a season out of his SIX year career.  

 

Tyrod has a fantastic TD:INT career ratio, and its actually over longer period of time and better than Foles.  And he is already capable of averaging 222 yards per game.  

 

LMAO...I love people hate TT because he doesn't throw for enough yards yet are here campaigning for a guy whose BEST season (and ONLY good season in 6 years) he averaged 222 yards a game.  Not to mention in HALF of his games THIS year he produced ZERO TD's, 2 INTs, and an average of 149 yards per game which is WAY worse than TT.

 

You guys are free to keep living off of TWO games...I will still to forming my opinion on the complete information that includes ALL the games he played this year and the rest of his 6 year career.

Please tell us how TT has "progressed" over the 3 seasons - all indications show a regression and his best season was under Roman. 

Season Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds GWD
2017 263 420 62.6 2799 14 3.3 4 1 10.6 187 89.2 56.4 46 256 2
2016 269 436 61.7 3023 17 3.9 6 1.4 11.2 202 89.7 68.2 42 192 1
2015 242 380 63.7 3035 20 5.3 6 1.6 12.5 217 99.4 70.3 36 212 2

 

 

14 and 15 passing  TD's  in an NFL season is piss poor. 

Five game winning drives,  five

 

They fired the best OC because TT isn't a passing QB. 

 

All of those horrible WR's on the 2017 team and the YPC decreased by .6 yards. (1.8 feet) 

Edited by ShadyBillsFan

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1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

A QB that shined under two different OCs when the play calls were tailored to his strengths is hardly comparable to a CB who had a few passes thrown right as his face mask. That's a reach, a big reach. Talking dollars with Brown against draft capital to acquire  Foles who is under contract, I don't see how that example makes a case against Foles. The only relation they have is super bowl MVP.

 

If Daboll loves RPOs as has been suggested Foles should definetly be a consideration depending on his availability. I have no illusions that he is the next Joe Montana but he would be a significant upgrade and depending on how the draft shakes out the Bills could easily be on the outside looking in when the QBs come off the board.

 

 

 

I guess you and I have very different definitions of the word "shined".  Foles averaged 220 yards a game in that "shining" season.  I thought that was the issue with TT, averaging too few yards per game despite having a historically great TD:INT ratio.  

 

And again you say shined this year, yet in HALF his games played (3 of his 6 total games this year) he averaged 149 yards per game, threw ZERO TD's, and 2 INTs.  Not to mention fumbled 5 times in 6 games.

 

So I guess where we differ is that I dont consider a guy who shined in half his games and not in the other half as "shining" on the season.  Steve Deberg had a fantastic single season for the Chiefs too with an insane TD:INT ratio...that didn't make the rest of his career great either.  

 

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Please tell us how TT has "progressed" over the 3 seasons - all indications show a regression and his best season was under Roman. 

 

No. Player  Age Pos G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD
5 Tyrod Taylor 28 QB 15 14 263 420 62.6 2799 14 3.3 4 1 47 6.7 6.9 10.6 187 89.2 56.4 46 256 5.46 5.67 9.9 1 2
5 Tyrod Taylor 27 QB 15 15 269 436 61.7 3023 17 3.9 6 1.4 84 6.9 7.1 11.2 202 89.7 68.2 42 192 5.92 6.07 8.8 1 1
5 Tyrod Taylor 26 QB 14 14 242 380 63.7 3035 20 5.3 6 1.6 63 8 8.3 12.5 217 99.4 70.3 36 212 6.79 7.1 8.7 1 2

 

 

 

First, cant even read that, goes off the screen.

Second, this is NOT a TT thread, so any case you want to present about TT is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

Third, no matter what you say about TT it has ZERO relevancy on Nick Foles or his career in general.

Fourth, Foles still under all measurements has an underwhelming 6 year career in which his only 2 teams gave up on him even after his "best" season.

Fifth, Foles play substantially drops off in all years outside his one good year.

Sixth, Foles didn't even have a good year this year...he had a great 3 games and then averaged 149 yards in the other 3 games with no TD's and 2 picks.  

Seventh, 5 game wining drives in the game of his life to go with 5 bad seasons as a QB on his resume.  Hmm, wonder what sample size provides MORE data.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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49 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

 

 

You never know it still could depends on if Cousins Get traded or signs with the 49ers. If the coach there who has reported to want Cousins can get him then Jimmy G will have to be traded  

 

 

You mean that same Jeff Fisher that had Case Keenam and Goff and Foles and could not score points to save there life when any of these QB's . Yes the QB killer Jeff Fischer.

I would not count any statistics or results produced from these QB's if Jeff Fischer was involved. Lok at what happen after they got away from him 

 

Goff wins the division 

Keenan goes to NFC title game 

Foles wins the Superbowl 

 

Fair enough...yet there is more to the story to be fair.   And I live in LA, and Keenam couldn't hit the side of a barn in LA.  I think Fischer sucks big time, but Keenam was still atrocious on the field.  Yes coaching matters, but at the end of the day, its the player making plays out there.  And he was terrible at it.  And put a QB in a GREAT situation, even a mediocre one can find success.  Minny is a great situation with talent at all the skill positions on offense, good OL, and great defense.  Doesn't take an Aaron Rogers to win in that situation.  

 

Case Keenum sucked in Houston too.  And lets not act like he had a huge year, in 15 games he threw 22 TDs and 3500 yards in a "Just don't lose us the game" situation.  

 

Foles only had one good year with the Eagles, and was AWFUL the next year for the Eagles.  Not to mention, he's NEVER thrown for even 3000 yards in a season in 6 years.  Eagles gave up on Foles for a man made of glass in Sam Bradford too.  

 

Goff is still a bad downfield thrower, so lets not crown him yet.  McVay gave him short easy throws...then when he needed to be a real QB, the Rams got beat bad.  Kid has promise, but he aint there yet.  

 

And Keenan sure didn't look like a long term solution in the playoffs where the only reason he advanced was a fluke rookie mistake on the Saints D that saved them then got destroyed by the Eagles in the next round.  A team with a great defense and talented WR's, Keenum was in a great situation where he didn't have to carry the team...until he did have to, and couldn't do it.

 

You see people can get hot in brief stretches in the NFL, they are all professionals.  But those who just got hot briefly shake themselves out compared to the guys who have long sustained success in the NFL.  Not to mention, guys can be "effective" in great situations while also not really being a great player.  

 

When you have a body of work that says one thing, and small sample size that says another...then its a HUGE gamble to bet on the small.  And I am NOT saying Foles is a terrible QB and will fail in his next long term starting gig.  I am simply saying his body of work is substantially bigger than those 2 games, mostly underwhelming, had 2 teams quit on him, and VERY risky to bet on.  

Edited by Alphadawg7

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Ok do you think the Bills would have beat the Jags if Foles was the Qb. Do you think the bills would have won 11 games if he was the QB because I see them winning the Carolina game and Bengles games. So I thinK having foles as are starter would really improve things 

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1 minute ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Ok do you think the Bills would have beat the Jags if Foles was the Qb. Do you think the bills would have won 11 games if he was the QB because I see them winning the Carolina game and Bengles games. So I thinK having foles as are starter would really improve things 

 

Which Nick Foles are you referring to?

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FoleNi00/gamelog/2017/

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Ok do you think the Bills would have beat the Jags if Foles was the Qb. Do you think the bills would have won 11 games if he was the QB because I see them winning the Carolina game and Bengles games. So I thinK having foles as are starter would really improve things 

 

 

10 fold.

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44 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

Ok do you think the Bills would have beat the Jags if Foles was the Qb. Do you think the bills would have won 11 games if he was the QB because I see them winning the Carolina game and Bengles games. So I thinK having foles as are starter would really improve things 

 

Nick Foles isn't "so good" to just assume we still win the 9 games we did win. Anyone thinking so is being VERY naive.  

 

Philly had one of the best, and some would argue the best, offensive line in football.  The Bills OL is utterly awful at pass protection and if not for TT's escapability, we wouldn't have won the 9 games and made the playoffs.  Foles would have had a VERY different life in Buffalo compared to Philly.  Same with Keenum.  In fact, people like to blame Jeff Fisher for Keenum sucking, yet completely ignore they had one of the worst OL's in the NFL that  year and was the main reason Gurley sucked.  They made upgrades to the OL and the play from both Gurley and the QB substantially increased.  Keenum's play was better behind a good OL, good WR's, and a great D too. 

 

It still amazes me how little people around here factor in the OL in various QB situations.  VERY FEW QB's can excel behind a bad OL, and those are the usually the Elite guys in the NFL and NO ONE we are discussing remotely comes close to the "elite" moniker.

 

That is not a testament to TT as a QB, so everyone can spare me the bashing and hate on TT.  Look at Peterman, he got destroyed behind this same OL when the defense no longer had to account for TT as a runner and just teed off on us.  In the Jets game, where they decided to just come at TT rather than worry about his ability to run, the OL was utterly destroyed.  Jags game, as soon as Peterman got in the OL was garbage again and were on him instantly.  

 

Love or hate TT...anyone completely ignoring how bad the OL truly is spends too much time focused on hating TT than being honest about this team.  He has plenty of faults as a passer, and I already know some of you are going to blame TT and cite his time holding the ball and completely ignore the fact that one of the contributors to that is him having to run for his life when the OL has completely broken down even BEFORE he has completed his drop back.  

 

Truth is:  Any pocket QB next year that plays for the Bills is going to have a very long year behind the current state of pass protection that is the Buffalo Bills OL.  While we need to upgrade at QB, we also desperately need to address the OL which only got weaker with losing Wood.  

 

Que the "we won inspire of TT" crowd to respond to this and blatantly ignores the positives he did out there on the field the last 3 years while compiling a winning record, making multiple Pro Bowls, leading one of the highest scoring periods in Buffalo Bills history, and doing it all with 2 HC's, 3 OC's, a slew of injuries to anyone who matters on offense, and a revolving door of WR's due to injury and FA.  

 

I have a very hard time to just blankly saying that Foles wins all the games TT does and then even more on top of that.  And that is NOT because TT is so good, its because Foles has NOT been good enough to make that assumption over his career.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair enough...yet there is more to the story to be fair.   And I live in LA, and Keenam couldn't hit the side of a barn in LA.  I think Fischer sucks big time, but Keenam was still atrocious on the field.  Yes coaching matters, but at the end of the day, its the player making plays out there.  And he was terrible at it.  And put a QB in a GREAT situation, even a mediocre one can find success.  Minny is a great situation with talent at all the skill positions on offense, good OL, and great defense.  Doesn't take an Aaron Rogers to win in that situation.  

 

Case Keenum sucked in Houston too.  And lets not act like he had a huge year, in 15 games he threw 22 TDs and 3500 yards in a "Just don't lose us the game" situation.  

 

Foles only had one good year with the Eagles, and was AWFUL the next year for the Eagles.  Not to mention, he's NEVER thrown for even 3000 yards in a season in 6 years.  Eagles gave up on Foles for a man made of glass in Sam Bradford too.  

 

Goff is still a bad downfield thrower, so lets not crown him yet.  McVay gave him short easy throws...then when he needed to be a real QB, the Rams got beat bad.  Kid has promise, but he aint there yet.  

 

And Keenan sure didn't look like a long term solution in the playoffs where the only reason he advanced was a fluke rookie mistake on the Saints D that saved them then got destroyed by the Eagles in the next round.  A team with a great defense and talented WR's, Keenum was in a great situation where he didn't have to carry the team...until he did have to, and couldn't do it.

 

You see people can get hot in brief stretches in the NFL, they are all professionals.  But those who just got hot briefly shake themselves out compared to the guys who have long sustained success in the NFL.  Not to mention, guys can be "effective" in great situations while also not really being a great player.  

 

When you have a body of work that says one thing, and small sample size that says another...then its a HUGE gamble to bet on the small.  And I am NOT saying Foles is a terrible QB and will fail in his next long term starting gig.  I am simply saying his body of work is substantially bigger than those 2 games, mostly underwhelming, had 2 teams quit on him, and VERY risky to bet on.  

Still using half of Foles sample size before Reich and  Pederson reworked the playbook during the bye week. You can ignore that all you want but that doesn't make an honest conversation. Everyone has the fear of making a move for the next Matt Flynn, we heard all the same things about Jimmy G. after his stint last year. Small sample size, narrow shoulders, injury risk, yards yada. Now the Bills would love to trade away 21,22 for JG. 

 

How has Foles been as a QB while running a system that caters to his strengths (RPOs)? How well does he perform his QB duties in the huddle and presnap? Does Daboll have a history of running RPOs similiar to what Foles has done well? Huge upgrade and a match at OC. 

 

Jared Goff had 32 completions 25 yards or greater, that is one shy of Big Ben for 9th place. His air yards per completion and per attempt also rank very well. Last I checked they were closer to top 5 than 10. This has been discussed in multiple threads in detail. If you missed it I apologize but until you provide some numbers that offer an explanation for what you wrote then that again is sloppy. 

 

I'm not sold on Foles either but no one has made a case why he won't/shouldn't be considered when the OC fits what he does. Assuming Daboll runs what's expected where would you find better value? Using that same first rounder on Jackson/Rudolph? Keenum who folded in the same big games Foles caught fire? Bridgewater a year off of football and an injury risk, and a guy with less success than Nick? Paying Kirk Cousins funny money? 

 

In your mind what's the best option? I'd prefer they trade everything and go get Rosen I just don't see it happen. As far as realistic options go I see Foles ranking very high on a short list.

Edited by Commonsense

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13 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Still using half of Foles sample size before Reich and  Pederson reworked the playbook during the bye week. You can ignore that all you want but that doesn't make an honest conversation. Everyone has the fear of making a move for the next Matt Flynn, we heard all the same things about Jimmy G. after his stint last year. Small sample size, narrow shoulders, injury risk, yards yada. Now the Bills would love to trade away 21,22 for JG. 

 

How has Foles been as a QB while running a system that caters to his strengths (RPOs)? How well does he perform his QB duties in the huddle and presnap? Does Daboll have a history of running RPOs similiar to what Foles has done well? Huge upgrade and a match at OC. 

 

Jared Goff had 32 completions 25 yards or greater, that is one shy of Big Ben for 9th place. His air yards per completion and per attempt also rank very well. Last I checked they were closer to top 5 than 10. This has been discussed in multiple threads in detail. If you missed it I apologize but until you provide some numbers that offer an explanation for what you wrote then that again is sloppy. 

 

I'm not sold on Foles either but no one has made a case why he won't/shouldn't be considered when the OC fits what he does. Assuming Daboll runs what's expected where would you find better value? Using that same first rounder on Jackson/Rudolph? Keenum who folded in the same big games Foles caught fire? Bridgewater a year off of football and an injury risk, and a guy with less success than Nick? Paying Kirk Cousins funny money? 

 

In your mind what's the best option? I'd prefer they trade everything and go get Rosen I just don't see it happen. As far as realistic options go I see Foles ranking very high on a short list.

 

Well you are way off on comparable.  Jimmy G has looked great in all 7 starts.  There is a BIG BIG BIG difference in having a small sample size versus Foles having a LARGE sample size of 6 years where he ONLY did well in a small sample size of his games.  Its not even remotely the same conversation, no one has ever seen a BAD version of Jimmy G ever on the NFL field during a regular season game.  He is 7-0.  

 

Foles on the other hand had ONE good year in 6 years, and he didn't even throw for 3000 yards EVER in his career, even in his good year.  In fact, he ONLY averaged 222 yards per game in his BEST year.  And what did he do after his best year?  Have a terrible followup year to the point the Eagles got rid of him for a guy made of glass in Bradford.  Then he went on to suck again for the Rams to the point they ALSO gave up on him.  

 

And Goff is not a good downfield passer, your stat book wont tell you what the tape shows.  When you got Gurley, Woods, Kupp, Watkins, etc ripping off big runs after the catch, then you get multiple plays that LOOK like long plays but were just more short throws where the receiver made a play.  The Rams feasted on short throws that went for big gains.  Take that away, and the offense struggled big time.  He throws a very inaccurate deep ball and puts way too much air on it too.  I still like Goff, I mean it was his first full year, just was saying he isnt as far a long as Wentz.

 

So again...Foles has NOT been able to keep his job in Philly or the Rams.  Only did well ONE season, followed by multiple terrible seasons where he SHOULD have gotten better.  In this over glorified season he sucked for 3 games and was good for 3 games, all on the same team with the same coaches and roster.  There is NOTHING about Foles that shows he is a sustainable good starting QB in the NFL.  Can he be?  Sure, he has shown enough to suggest its possible.  But he is no where close to a guy worth paying a lot to obtain or pay just to find if the "two games" Nick Foles is the guy you are getting or is it the guy who failed to keep his job twice and never thrown for 3000 yards ever in his career nor remotely matched his one fluke TD season.

 

PS:  Use of capitals is to emphasize, not yell.  I dont have an issue with your opinion on him, in fact I respect your thoughts on the matter, I just dont agree with the reasons I listed.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well you are way off on comparable.  Jimmy G has looked great in all 7 starts.  There is a BIG BIG BIG difference in having a small sample size versus Foles having a LARGE sample size of 6 years where he ONLY did well in a small sample size of his games.  Its not even remotely the same conversation, no one has ever seen a BAD version of Jimmy G ever on the NFL field during a regular season game.  He is 7-0.  

 

Foles on the other hand had ONE good year in 6 years, and he didn't even throw for 3000 yards EVER in his career, even in his good year.  In fact, he ONLY averaged 222 yards per game in his BEST year.  And what did he do after his best year?  Have a terrible followup year to the point the Eagles got rid of him for a guy made of glass in Bradford.  Then he went on to suck again for the Rams to the point they ALSO gave up on him.  

 

And Goff is not a good downfield passer, your stat book wont tell you what the tape shows.  When you got Gurley, Woods, Kupp, Watkins, etc ripping off big runs after the catch, then you get multiple plays that LOOK like long plays but were just more short throws where the receiver made a play.  The Rams feasted on short throws that went for big gains.  Take that away, and the offense struggled big time.  He throws a very inaccurate deep ball and puts way too much air on it too.  I still like Goff, I mean it was his first full year, just was saying he isnt as far a long as Wentz.

 

So again...Foles has NOT been able to keep his job in Philly or the Rams.  Only did well ONE season, followed by multiple terrible seasons where he SHOULD have gotten better.  In this over glorified season he sucked for 3 games and was good for 3 games, all on the same team with the same coaches and roster.  There is NOTHING about Foles that shows he is a sustainable good starting QB in the NFL.  Can he be?  Sure, he has shown enough to suggest its possible.  But he is no where close to a guy worth paying a lot to obtain or pay just to find if the "two games" Nick Foles is the guy you are getting or is it the guy who failed to keep his job twice and never thrown for 3000 yards ever in his career nor remotely matched his one fluke TD season.

 

PS:  Use of capitals is to emphasize, not yell.  I dont have an issue with your opinion on him, in fact I respect your thoughts on the matter, I just dont agree with the reasons I listed.

I didn't think you were yelling, it's fine. You keep referring to the 3,000 yard mark so I will do the work for you. In the season he put up 2891 yards 27 touchdowns and 2 picks he only started ten games. He spent the first quarter of that season trying to win the job. I think we can both agree those numbers look a lot different knowing that.

 

You would have a hard time finding anyone to argue in favor of Foles playing outside a specific scheme, again I'm not a Foles fan but I wouldn't hate the move I'd understand it.

 

What is the better option in your opinion? 

 

 

Edited by Commonsense

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19 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I didn't think you were yelling, it's fine. You keep referring to the 3,000 yard mark so I will do the work for you. In the season he put up 2891 yards 27 touchdowns and 2 picks he only started ten games. He spent the first quarter of that season trying to win the job. I think we can both agree those numbers look a lot different knowing that.

 

You would have a hard time finding anyone to argue in favor of Foles playing outside a specific scheme, again I'm not a Foles fan but I wouldn't hate the move I'd understand it.

 

What is the better option in your opinion? 

 

 

 

Well he played in mostly 11 games, but again, that was ONE season in which he followed it up with awful seasons for the Eagles and 2 awful ones for the Rams.  I dont see why people fixate on something was an anomaly compared to his other body of work.  I acknowledged his ONE good season.  But it was not even a full season like you said, still never thrown for over 3000 yards in 6 years where he had multiple seasons as the full time starter, and had 2 teams give up on him.  

 

Again, I am not trying to say he has no future...I am saying the body of evidence is stronger against him than basing opinions on the last 2 games he played.  He is a big risk.

 

Better options is a good question.  I would absolutely sign Cousins before I would trade for and sign Foles.  But most importantly I would take a QB in the draft either at 21 or in a trade up.  

 

At 21, I would prefer even a young prospect like Lamar over Foles.  I also have posted scenarios where I think its possible someone like Baker might surprise and slip now that Smith was traded.  Its also possible that if Cousins goes to either Denver or the Jets, that more than 1 QB might slide down making a trade up cheaper because all the talk is that Cleveland prefers Allen.  

 

For me, the better choice is to see what shakes out in FA (we might even land Cousins and make this all a mute point) then work the draft and the extra assets we have to find the best path to a QB the coaching staff feels strongly about.  

 

Foles played behind a substantially better OL with a substantially better offensively minded coach...I just have little confidence in his ability to succeed here behind this mess of an OL and a college OC who has had no NFL success as an OC.  (I do like Daboll hire, but still has a lot to prove).

 

PS:  I wouldnt hate having Foles here, I would just hate giving up good draft picks and giving him a new contract to get him.

Edited by Alphadawg7

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12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, lets ignore his 6 year career of mediocrity and fixate on his last 2 games only.  I mean he started 6 games this season...in 3 of them he compiled 10 TDs and 1 INT.  In the other 3 games he totaled ZERO TD's, 2 ints and averaged 149 yards per game.  

 

Somehow that screams mortgage the farm for him?  Not to mention in his one lone good season, he had a great TD to INT ratio, but also only averaged 222 yards per game passing.  Hmmm...sounds familiar.  Not to mention his TD:INT ratio isnt very good the rest of his career outside of that.  

 

By this logic, we should have made Frank Reich the highest paid QB in the NFL after his epic comeback to help the Bills get back to and lose another SB.  

 

Not saying Foles is terrible, but the over exaggeration of him based on 2 games, which admittedly he played great in, is just getting out of hand.  While I would be fine taking an inexpensive chance on Foles, I would utterly hate spending a ton on a guy who has a couple good moments in a rather underwhelming career.

Do you know what is even more illogical? Having a starting qb going into his fourth year who is incapable of running a pro offense. I wouldn't give a first round pick for Foles and maybe not even a second for what I believe to be a short term answer. But regardless what rookie qb the Bills draft this team still needs a veteran qb who can run a pro offense. 

 

The Bills scored three points in their playoff loss to the Jaguars. Our qb play was wretched and an embarrassment. What is the definition of irrationality?  That there are still plenty of dead enders (not saying you) who argue for the status quo. 

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1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Do you know what is even more illogical? Having a starting qb going into his fourth year who is incapable of running a pro offense. I wouldn't give a first round pick for Foles and maybe not even a second for what I believe to be a short term answer. But regardless what rookie qb the Bills draft this team still needs a veteran qb who can run a pro offense. 

 

The Bills scored three points in their playoff loss to the Jaguars. Our qb play was wretched and an embarrassment. What is the definition of irrationality?  That there are still plenty of dead enders (not saying you) who argue for the status quo. 

 

No one disagrees about having a good QB.  However, nothing about what you just said makes "Foles" the specific solution.  In fact, everything you said actually suggests we would be foolish to trade for Foles.

 

Fact:  Deepest offseason in years for QB's between FA and quality draft prospects.  

 

You just said Foles is nothing more than a short term player.  So why on Earth, on a team full of holes, should we trade any draft pick for a guy only to be used as a stop gap for whatever rookie we draft?  We can ALREADY use TT for that or sign one of the decent vets available in FA this year WITHOUT giving up any draft picks for a guy like Foles.

 

You guys all realize that Foles would be here just ONE year if we traded for him right and still drafted a rookie?  He would NEVER resign here next year as a FA when the job was just being kept warm for the rookie, not to mention the Bills would NEVER pay him what he would want for him to be just a backup.  

 

The idea of wasting draft pick or picks to get a guy who is a seat warmer to a rookie is just baffling.  TT is more than capable of being a seat warmer until the rookie takes his job and so are a number of FA guys if they just get rid of TT all together.  The ONLY way it makes sense to trade for Foles is IF the Bills do so with the intention of NOT drafting a QB high in the draft and intend on him being the QB to build around.  Everything else is just a waste of draft assets.

 

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2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No one disagrees about having a good QB.  However, nothing about what you just said makes "Foles" the specific solution.  In fact, everything you said actually suggests we would be foolish to trade for Foles.

 

Fact:  Deepest offseason in years for QB's between FA and quality draft prospects.  

 

You just said Foles is nothing more than a short term player.  So why on Earth, on a team full of holes, should we trade any draft pick for a guy only to be used as a stop gap for whatever rookie we draft?  We can ALREADY use TT for that or sign one of the decent vets available in FA this year WITHOUT giving up any draft picks for a guy like Foles.

 

You guys all realize that Foles would be here just ONE year if we traded for him right and still drafted a rookie?  He would NEVER resign here next year as a FA when the job was just being kept warm for the rookie, not to mention the Bills would NEVER pay him what he would want for him to be just a backup.  

 

The idea of wasting draft pick or picks to get a guy who is a seat warmer to a rookie is just baffling.  TT is more than capable of being a seat warmer until the rookie takes his job and so are a number of FA guys if they just get rid of TT all together.  The ONLY way it makes sense to trade for Foles is IF the Bills do so with the intention of NOT drafting a QB high in the draft and intend on him being the QB to build around.  Everything else is just a waste of draft assets.

 

I didn't say I would give up a first round pick for Foles, or even a second. Although I might consider it. 

 

The Taylor issue is a dead issue for me. He is incapable of running a pro offense. Watch the Jacksonville game? Then face the reality and stop creating your own fiction about him. 

 

I don't care what veteran qb the Bills bring in as long as that qb can run a pro offense. It's a simple criterion that the running qb can't fulfill. 

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Moving away from Foles for a minute...I think the best and most enjoyable thing about the Super Bowl is not just that the Pats*** lost, but the manner in which they lost:

 

1. They lost in dramatic fashion, in much the same way that they beat other teams (give up a late turnover, then a late TD, then falter trying to come back).

2. The possible GOAT head coach is outcoached by a 2nd year head coach.

3. The possible GOAT QB loses to a career backup QB.

4. The possible GOAT QB drops an easy trick play catch that could have gone for a big gain.

5. The career backup QB then catches an easy TD pass on a trick play.

6. The Eagles knock out a key player for the Pats*** early in the game, altering the tone and strategy.

7. The Eagles score two TDs on plays that typically would be reversed by replay against the Pats***.

8. One of those TDs is one that mirrored a similar TD earlier in the year that was reversed, and essentially gave home field advantage to the Pats*** for the playoffs.

9. Their former power RB powered over them in impressive fashion.

10. And, of couse, they lost.

 

Just so many good things there to soak up.

 

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15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, lets ignore his 6 year career of mediocrity and fixate on his last 2 games only.  I mean he started 6 games this season...in 3 of them he compiled 10 TDs and 1 INT.  In the other 3 games he totaled ZERO TD's, 2 ints and averaged 149 yards per game.  

 

Somehow that screams mortgage the farm for him?  Not to mention in his one lone good season, he had a great TD to INT ratio, but also only averaged 222 yards per game passing.  Hmmm...sounds familiar.  Not to mention his TD:INT ratio isnt very good the rest of his career outside of that.  

 

By this logic, we should have made Frank Reich the highest paid QB in the NFL after his epic comeback to help the Bills get back to and lose another SB.  

 

Not saying Foles is terrible, but the over exaggeration of him based on 2 games, which admittedly he played great in, is just getting out of hand.  While I would be fine taking an inexpensive chance on Foles, I would utterly hate spending a ton on a guy who has a couple good moments in a rather underwhelming career.

Many want to do anything they can to move on from Fitz Taylor.  They forget the reality of NFL qB

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Peter KIng weighs in on the availability of Foles:

 

9. I don’t think Philly trades quarterback Nick Foles, unless some team makes an offer that start with two first-round picks. Even then, I’m skeptical they’d pull the trigger. This is why they got Foles in the first place—because GM Howie Roseman and Pederson think the backup quarterback is one of the 10 or 12 most important players on the team.

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Nick Foles doesn’t sound like he’ll push for a chance to compete for the Eagles’ starting job, push to get traded, or push for much of anything in 2018.

 

Instead, the reigning Super Bowl Most Valuable Player says he’ll let everything sort itself out and he’ll be content with whatever happens.

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