Mat68 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, PIZ said: The NE will find out now how the Bills felt after Kelly retired, with no young stud behind him. This is why owners should stay out of roster decisions. Kraft was an is obviously emotionally attached to Brady and not looking longer term about future success of the franchise. If he plays another 5 years at diminishing returns the team will need to be improved around him.. With how often Brady took less money how willing will Brady be to take even less and less as he is older? Maybe Kraft doesnt like the longer look of he NFL and once Brady retires he sell the franchise. Its very strange and rare for an Owner to be so near sighted in view and scope. Garapalo would be the best shot at success for the the next 10 years. As Brady diminishes within a year or 2 Garapalo will soon surpace Brady in ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 God no. We will see the flaws of Garoppalo when the clouds of "at least they aren't going 1-15" clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The goal of an NFL team is to win games. The point of having draft picks is to get good players. The end game isn't to horde more picks. You don't give up a good player to gather more picks so you can...replace the good player you just gave up. Ever hear the phrase "one in hand is better than two in the bush?" Do you know what it means in this case? Having one young, franchise level QB is better than having your pick of a potentially weak NFL QB class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: The goal of an NFL team is to win games. The point of having draft picks is to get good players. The end game isn't to horde more picks. You don't give up a good player to gather more picks so you can...replace the good player you just gave up. Ever hear the phrase "one in hand is better than two in the bush?" Do you know what it means in this case? Having one young, franchise level QB is better than having your pick of a potentially weak NFL QB class. Garoppolo has thrown 200 passes in the NFL. He has not proven he is a franchise QB. Heck Winston, Carr, Mariota, Trubisky, Prescott, Goff, etc have not even proven they are franchise QBs. Compound that with "the best coach in NFL history" giving up what would be a perfect set up for the future of the Patriots, the contract the unproven Garoppolo will want since his rookie year is over, and you have the perfect storm for failure. We have a better chance drafting a QB in a supposedly weak draft class which I have heard every year since the legit bad QB class of 2013. 2014 Carr, Jimmy "Franchise QB bc he was on the Pats" Garoppolo, Bortles. 2015 Winston, Mariota 2016 Goff, Wentz, Prescott 2017 Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson For the love of all that is holy, let us draft a god forsaken QB of our own, and not pay through the nose for someone another team two teams don't think was worth keeping. And yes, we will pay for getting one. We will pay a lot. We won't care in 2 years when that price is paid. Edited December 21, 2017 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: Garoppolo has thrown 200 passes in the NFL. He has not proven he is a franchise QB. Heck Winston, Carr, Mariota, Trubisky, Prescott, Goff, etc have not even proven they are franchise QBs. Compound that with "the best coach in NFL history" giving up what would be a perfect set up for the future of the Patriots, the contract the unproven Garoppolo will want since his rookie year is over, and you have the perfect storm for failure. We have a better chance drafting a QB in a supposedly weak draft class which I have heard every year since the legit bad QB class of 2013. 2014 Carr, Jimmy "Franchise QB bc he was on the Pats" Garoppolo, Bortles. 2015 Winston, Mariota 2016 Goff, Wentz, Prescott 2017 Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson For the love of all that is holy, let us draft a god forsaken QB of our own, and not pay through the nose for someone another team two teams don't think was worth keeping. And yes, we will pay for getting one. We will pay a lot. We won't care in 2 years when that price is paid. Carr, Prescott and Bortles seem to only be good when the rest of their teams are good. As most QBs are. Jimmy G - looks good...so far Winston - meh Mariota - a little better than meh Goff - seems pretty good under the right system Trubisky - being thrown to the wolves, so who really knows? My bet is is no better than Christian Ponder. Watson - looked good but let's see how he does over a full season Wentz - looks like the real deal Are there any of these guys you'd want to give up 2 first round picks for? Maybe Wentz. My point was that it would be stupid to trade Jimmy G for 2 firsts right now, when it looks like he may be THE GUY in SF. I mean, why trade that? So you have your shot at Josh Allen? They'll have a top 5 pick - they'll still have that shot at a QB if they want WITHOUT trading their guy. Edited December 21, 2017 by Domdab99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Domdab99 said: Carr, Prescott and Bortles seem to only be good when the rest of their teams are good. As most QBs are. Jimmy G - looks good...so far Winston - meh Mariota - a little better than meh Goff - seems pretty good under the right system Trubisky - being thrown to the wolves, so who really knows? My bet is is no better than Christian Ponder. Watson - looked good but let's see how he does over a full season Wentz - looks like the real deal Are there any of these guys you'd want to give up 2 first round picks for? Maybe Wentz. My point was that it would be stupid to give trade Jimmy G for 2 first right now, when it looks like he may be THE GUY in SF. I mean, why trade that? So you have your shot at Josh Allen? They'll have a top 5 pick - they'll still have that shot at a QB if they want WITHOUT trading their guy. I understand the logic IF they see someone in college that is flying under the radar (like Jimmy G. Did) and think they can scoop him up and get him 2 years under Brady before he takes over. I suspect this years deaft class class will be heavy on the D side of the ball..LB and pass rushers galore.. hoping a few pan out and Hightower can stay healthy for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 As for the Bills, I'm fine with them drafting a QB this year as long as they're not giving up two firsts to do so. Is it possible one of these guys coming out is the next Wentz? I guess so, but which one is it? No one knows, so it's giving up 2 firsts for a roll of the dice hoping it comes up 7. (and even though 7 is the most likely outcome of a roll of the dice, drafting a franchise QB will not be the most likely outcome from drafting one of these guys.) Tyrod is a fine stop gap. Draft a QB with one of the first round picks and draft another need with the other. Maybe the QB shines like a Watson and we can then trade Tyrod. Putting all your eggs in one basket is just stupid. I don't want to give up two picks for Marcus Mariotta or Dak Prescott. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, Mat68 said: If the 49ers traded Steve young instead of Montana they dont win another Superbowl. If Greenbay trade Rodgers instead of Farve they dont win another Superbowl. It is in the best interest of the franchise to trade the old QB a year early instead of the promising QB with his whole career ahead of him. Jimmy G has not reached his potential yet. Brady is on the decline of his career. You are probably right but Hoodie and Kraft are very confident and probably believe they can find another QB since they've been very good at drafting QB's in recent years. In fact it's pretty telling that both QB's that were on the roster behind Brady when the season started were traded and now starting on other teams in Brissett and Jimmy G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Putting all your eggs in one basket is just stupid. I don't want to give up two picks for Marcus Mariotta or Dak Prescott. Dak is a good QB and for one drafted in the third round doing rather well for himself. If the Bills had Dak Prescott with McCoy your team be in the hunt for the east still. He is the perfect QB to compliment a run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Rumor is BB wanted trade Brady in the off season for multiple picks and sign Jimmy G long term contract. Kraft wouldn't hear of it and told him No. im not sure how true that rumor is but I wouldn't be shocked if it i was true. It would have been the right move, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runninrams Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: I agree, but if it was between him or Brady. I want Brady retiring a Patriot. I rather search for the successor than have the greatest WB in Pats history traded to make some sort of point. i will say this, they will be drafting a QB early this year to mold behind Brady. it wouldn't be about making a point, it would have been Bill keeping the same mindset he always had. The Patriot Way is you trade an aging guy 1-3 years early to make way for the young up and coming replacement...see Wilfork, Milloy, Law, Welker, Vrabel, Harrison, Vinatieri, Mankins, Light, etc. For some reason he did the opposite with Brady and Jimmy. I personally would've traded Brady after this year and given Jimmy the reins. Same way SF traded Joe Montana to go with Young, Indy moved on from Peyton to get Luck and how Green Bay stuck with Rodgers when Favre changed his mind. I have a bad feeling us Patriots fans are going to look back on this trade as a what could've been. You aren't going to find a better heir to the throne before Brady is gone than Jimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Runninrams said: it wouldn't be about making a point, it would have been Bill keeping the same mindset he always had. The Patriot Way is you trade an aging guy 1-3 years early to make way for the young up and coming replacement...see Wilfork, Milloy, Law, Welker, Vrabel, Harrison, Vinatieri, Mankins, Light, etc. For some reason he did the opposite with Brady and Jimmy. I personally would've traded Brady after this year and given Jimmy the reins. Same way SF traded Joe Montana to go with Young, Indy moved on from Peyton to get Luck and how Green Bay stuck with Rodgers when Favre changed his mind. I have a bad feeling us Patriots fans are going to look back on this trade as a what could've been. You aren't going to find a better heir to the throne before Brady is gone than Jimmy. Very possible! I also wouldn't be shocked if Jimmy G plays 4 years and then is gone because teams can game plan for him and have film.. see kapernick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Playing devil's advocate here, would any Bills fan want Brady traded if he was here and had the same success in terms of SB's and championships? We are talking about the greatest player of all time, not just the greatest QB of all time. I get that you need to plan for the future but it's still a bit premature to assume Jimmy G is going to have anywhere close to the career Brady has had, or even Bledsoe for that matter in terms of Pat's history. In fact looking back and Jim Kelly's career and despite not winning and championships here would any Bills fan have been happy seeing him wear another team's uniform post Buffalo? Especially if god forbid he won a championship with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 hours ago, The 9 Isles said: They could trade and still pick a top QB, save huge contract dollars on him and basically flip a 2nd round pick for 2 firsts? End up with 3 first round picks this year. Just a thought. I don't get this...someone else said there is a theory the Niners are just show casing Jimmy to trade him. Where do you people come up with this stuff? Jimmy took a winless team that he has only a couple weeks with to learn the system and is 3-0 as a starter and playing fantastic. His #1 WR is none other than Marquise Goodwin, you know the guy 90% of this board didn't think could even be a good #3 WR. There is no possibility that Jimmy G is available for trade. He is going to be a Niner period. So YES I would trade our 2 first round picks for Jimmy, but there is zero chance the 49ers would accept 2 first rounders for him. And if they do, everyone in the FO should be immediately fired because Jimmy's starts in NE and SF so far are beyond impressive, especially when your consider how bad the 49ers before he got there and undefeated since despite only have a handful of weeks to learn the offense and build rapport with his receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Dak is a good QB and for one drafted in the third round doing rather well for himself. If the Bills had Dak Prescott with McCoy your team be in the hunt for the east still. He is the perfect QB to compliment a run game. He's not doing well this year. I'd rather have Tyrod. Same basic QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: Carr, Prescott and Bortles seem to only be good when the rest of their teams are good. As most QBs are. Jimmy G - looks good...so far Winston - meh Mariota - a little better than meh Goff - seems pretty good under the right system Trubisky - being thrown to the wolves, so who really knows? My bet is is no better than Christian Ponder. Watson - looked good but let's see how he does over a full season Wentz - looks like the real deal Are there any of these guys you'd want to give up 2 first round picks for? Maybe Wentz. My point was that it would be stupid to trade Jimmy G for 2 firsts right now, when it looks like he may be THE GUY in SF. I mean, why trade that? So you have your shot at Josh Allen? They'll have a top 5 pick - they'll still have that shot at a QB if they want WITHOUT trading their guy. I find it kind of funny that people are ok trading 2 first round picks for an unproven rookie...but not a young QB who not only was schooled by Brady and BB early, but also had very good early success so far as a starter, including going 3-0 with a winless team despite only getting a couple weeks to learn the system and get to know his receivers...who is top guy is none other than Marquise Goodwin, someone most this board said couldn't play in the NFL. ZERO percent chance Jimmy is available for our 2 first rounders. But if he was, we should trade them without hesitation and run to the phone to accept. Jimmy is a substantially better prospect as a future franchise QB than any draft pick in this draft because he has already shown well early and had the benefit of learning behind to of the GOATs as well. That has more value than an unknown commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, Alphadawg7 said: I find it kind of funny that people are ok trading 2 first round picks for an unproven rookie...but not a young QB who not only was schooled by Brady and BB early, but also had very good early success so far as a starter, including going 3-0 with a winless team despite only getting a couple weeks to learn the system and get to know his receivers...who is top guy is none other than Marquise Goodwin, someone most this board said couldn't play in the NFL. ZERO percent chance Jimmy is available for our 2 first rounders. But if he was, we should trade them without hesitation and run to the phone to accept. Jimmy is a substantially better prospect as a future franchise QB than any draft pick in this draft because he has already shown well early and had the benefit of learning behind to of the GOATs as well. That has more value than an unknown commodity. From our POV...I think it's close. Jimmy G looks like the real deal. From the 49ers POV, I think it'd be a horrible deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: He's not doing well this year. I'd rather have Tyrod. Same basic QB. One huge difference is Dak is willing take a chance to make a play, and he is doing it with OLD talent at ate And WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Need more evidence that Jimmy will stay with SF? Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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