Are you going to sing the same tune if...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Watkins is a rare talent. Someone you build an offense around. We squandered it for a chance to make a good extra pick next April.

 

A rare talent who played all of 5/8ths of a season over two years, and would have cost us enormous money in FA with ZERO assurances about his ability to stay healthy.

[HuSeYiN_NYC]

Don't think this post was necessary. OP just has a man crush on Watkins is all i took from this convo.

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

so lets see...9 healthy games 2015, half a season. 1 healthy game 2016. I sense a trend.

 

Except his foot issue is over with. And the foot issue is a hard to heal injury as it just takes lots of time, nothing they can really do. When he came back to early, he got a set back. BUT, with that injury it heals stronger than it was before the injury...so once fully recovered, its not a likely reoccurrence.

 

So you would rather disregard the medical facts about the issue, and assume more injuries are to come because one took a while to heal. I on the other hand would rather take a chance on a YOUNG and RARE talent at a major need like WR when we have NOTHING to lose given we aren't contending for a SB this year anyway.

 

Now, we also have 2 firsts, a 2nd, and 2 thirds next if we don't trade Sammy to get a big time QB if Taylor doesn't step up. So we could have KEPT Sammy as an ELITE weapon potentially for a new young franchise QB next year.

 

Instead, we got a 2nd we didn't need to get that said QB given all the assets we already had after the Darby trade and draft day trade.

Don't think this post was necessary. OP just has a man crush on Watkins is all i took from this convo.

 

And your comment was necessary lmao

 

Yes, I love talented players...something this team is always devoid of. I want to start KEEPING talent here...odd concept. Weird we havent made the playoffs in 17 years giving up on talent...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Except his foot issue is over with. And the foot issue is a hard to heal injury as it just takes lots of time, nothing they can really do. When he came back to early, he got a set back. BUT, with that injury it heals stronger than it was before the injury...so once fully recovered, its not a likely reoccurrence.

 

So you would rather disregard the medical facts about the issue, and assume more injuries are to come because one took a while to heal. I on the other hand would rather take a chance on a YOUNG and RARE talent at a major need like WR when we have NOTHING to lose given we aren't contending for a SB this year anyway.

 

Now, we also have 2 firsts, a 2nd, and 2 thirds next if we don't trade Sammy to get a big time QB if Taylor doesn't step up. So we could have KEPT Sammy as an ELITE weapon potentially for a new young franchise QB next year.

 

Instead, we got a 2nd we didn't need to get that said QB given all the assets we already had after the Darby trade and draft day trade.

 

And your comment was necessary lmao

 

Yes, I love talented players...something this team is always devoid of. I want to start KEEPING talent here...odd concept. Weird we havent made the playoffs in 17 years giving up on talent...

 

You can't possibly KNOW what we'll need to get a top QB. You can't. And I'm on the record saying they should ship TT and McCoy out too. Complete the purge, start over.

 

ENSURE we're picking in the top 2-3 and utilize the remaining picks to bring in other younger, hungrier players.

[Scott7975]

 

Really? 4th in NFL in YPC since entering the league...hmmmm suggests otherwise. And he has spent his time with Orton, EJ, and Tyrod and dealt with the worst OC in history of NFL his rookie year, and the Rex crap show for 2 years.

 

Yet...in 2015, he was among most productive in the NFL in his 9 healthy starts. In 2016 he was a shell of himself until he finally got semi-healthy in late in the season and in one of his only starts he could play close to himself, he put up a 150+yard game and a TD.

 

So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR is both visually and factually false as both the tape and stats illustrate it.

 

The notion is its low today because if healthy he would have gotten more later. We could have tagged him for compensation, traded him, franchised him, etc later. Or even just resigned him. He even said himself, he wasn't upset about not picking up the 5th year and he knows he has to go earn it.

You can repeat all this ad nausium. It really doesn't matter. Fact is we weren't going to pay upwards of 20 mil a season on a WR when they can get similar production for less than half that. Not too mention we don't currently have a QB that can release Sammys potential.

 

I get it. I loved having Watkins too, but its simply not the right way to build a team. Star receivers don't get you to the Super Bowl.

[Alphadawg7]

 

You can't possibly KNOW what we'll need to get a top QB. You can't. And I'm on the record saying they should ship TT and McCoy out too. Complete the purge, start over.

 

ENSURE we're picking in the top 2-3 and utilize the remaining picks to bring in other younger, hungrier players.

 

Really? There is only a ton of NFL history to gauge what it will take to move up...there is only a draft value chart to estimate within reason...there is only similar trades in each of the last several drafts...

 

How can you say no one can know? If it took MORE than 2 first, a 2nd, and 2 thirds...guess what...you DONT make that trade unless its an utter slam dunk super prospect. And more news for you...SF and Jets are 100% going to be picking in the top 5 next year and BOTH wont trade away a QB that warrants that kind of cost because they DESPERATELY need one themselves. So the REALITY is, we will be trading up for more likely the 3rd best prospect in the draft anyway. And if SF or Jets feel like trading down, once again, we had MORE than enough ammo as we could also include 2019 draft assets too.

 

So again, we did NOT need to trade Sammy for the potential to draft a top QB prospect next year. There is nothing you can say to factually dispute that.

[Scott7975]

Watkins is a rare talent. Someone you build an offense around. We squandered it for a chance to make a good extra pick next April.

You build offenses around QBs not receivers.

[Alphadawg7]

You can repeat all this ad nausium. It really doesn't matter. Fact is we weren't going to pay upwards of 20 mil a season on a WR when they can get similar production for less than half that. Not too mention we don't currently have a QB that can release Sammys potential.

 

I get it. I loved having Watkins too, but its simply not the right way to build a team. Star receivers don't get you to the Super Bowl.

 

Except Sammy was one of most productive WR's in NFL with TT in 2015 during his 9 healthy games to close out the season. So how can you say he can't reach his potential? He is 4th in NFL in YPC with Orton, EJ, and TT...again, how can anyone say he can't produce here when he has while healthy?

 

I find hilariously ironic that everyone cries here about our passing game and we just traded away an Elite weapon in that very passing game for a mediocre DB and a 2nd round pick.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

 

Really? 4th in NFL in YPC since entering the league...hmmmm suggests otherwise. And he has spent his time with Orton, EJ, and Tyrod and dealt with the worst OC in history of NFL his rookie year, and the Rex crap show for 2 years.

 

Yet...in 2015, he was among most productive in the NFL in his 9 healthy starts. In 2016 he was a shell of himself until he finally got semi-healthy in late in the season and in one of his only starts he could play close to himself, he put up a 150+yard game and a TD.

 

So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR is both visually and factually false as both the tape and stats illustrate it.

 

The notion is its low today because if healthy he would have gotten more later. We could have tagged him for compensation, traded him, franchised him, etc later. Or even just resigned him. He even said himself, he wasn't upset about not picking up the 5th year and he knows he has to go earn it.

 

So you're saying YPC is now the standard for being an elite WR? How does this stat equal to him being a top 10 elite Wr, this I have to hear.

 

He has not been healthy in any season so how can you state "So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR" , how can you even make this statement? He hasn't ever been healthy so that is just you and other fans seeing him as what he's supposed to be (elite) rather than what he in truth as of right now really is (Above Average).

 

Again for the 2nd time, I have bolded your statement, he has never been healthy, not once since being drafted and again you are basing this off of you own interpretation of him rather than what he really is.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

You build offenses around QBs not receivers.

 

QB needs WR's to throw too...its a two way street. We already had the WR, and enough draft ammo before the Sammy trade to get the QB. Why trade away half the puzzle?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Really? There is only a ton of NFL history to gauge what it will take to move up...there is only a draft value chart to estimate within reason...there is only similar trades in each of the last several drafts...

 

How can you say no one can know? If it took MORE than 2 first, a 2nd, and 2 thirds...guess what...you DONT make that trade unless its an utter slam dunk super prospect. And more news for you...SF and Jets are 100% going to be picking in the top 5 next year and BOTH wont trade away a QB that warrants that kind of cost because they DESPERATELY need one themselves. So the REALITY is, we will be trading up for more likely the 3rd best prospect in the draft anyway. And if SF or Jets feel like trading down, once again, we had MORE than enough ammo as we could also include 2019 draft assets too.

 

So again, we did NOT need to trade Sammy for the potential to draft a top QB prospect next year. There is nothing you can say to factually dispute that.

 

Agaiiiiin for the reading challenged, I'm advocating cutting or trading away TT and Shady as well to ensure a top 2-3 finish.

[Augie]

Agaiiiiin for the reading challenged, I'm advocating cutting or trading away TT and Shady as well to ensure a top 2-3 finish.

Do we need the Jets permission to trade Tyrod to them for a sack full of game balls? That would flip the table!

[Alphadawg7]

 

So you're saying YPC is now the standard for being an elite WR? How does this stat equal to him being a top 10 elite Wr, this I have to hear.

 

He has not been healthy in any season so how can you state "So please, this notion that when healthy he is not a top 10 WR" , how can you even make this statement? He hasn't ever been healthy so that is just you and other fans seeing him as what he's supposed to be (elite) rather than what he in truth as of right now really is (Above Average).

 

Again for the 2nd time, I have bolded your statement, he has never been healthy, not once since being drafted and again you are basing this off of you own interpretation of him rather than what he really is.

 

 

 

The bulk of his injury is tied a single injury of his foot...one that usually doesn't reoccur once fully healed.

 

The other main injury was a rib injury for a huge shot to his ribs...something that can happen to anyone, doesn't make a player fragile when they get an injury from a big hit. He had no injury issues prior to that coming into the league.

I can name lots of players who had bad luck early in their career but put it behind them. Look at Stafford for instance...he was mocked to be made of glass due a couple bad luck shoulder injuries to start his first couple of years...now he's a franchise QB who no longer has injury concerns.

 

We are not going to be a serious SB contender this year anyway, no reason to abandon Sammy who is so young still when we NEED more talent here not less.

 

Agaiiiiin for the reading challenged, I'm advocating cutting or trading away TT and Shady as well to ensure a top 2-3 finish.

 

And we are still more talented than SF and Jets if we do so. Getting the 3rd pick just gets us the 3rd best QB still.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

The bulk of his injury is tied a single injury of his foot...one that usually doesn't reoccur once fully healed.

 

The other main injury was a rib injury for a huge shot to his ribs...something that can happen to anyone, doesn't make a player fragile when they get an injury from a big hit. He had no injury issues prior to that coming into the league.

I can name lots of players who had bad luck early in their career but put it behind them. Look at Stafford for instance...he was mocked to be made of glass due a couple bad luck shoulder injuries to start his first couple of years...now he's a franchise QB who no longer has injury concerns.

 

We are not going to be a serious SB contender this year anyway, no reason to abandon Sammy who is so young still when we NEED more talent here not less.

 

And we are still more talented than SF and Jets if we do so.

 

That's debatable. Without shady there'd be no offense here, and who knows what the defense will bring to the table.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

 

The bulk of his injury is tied a single injury of his foot...one that usually doesn't reoccur once fully healed.

 

The other main injury was a rib injury for a huge shot to his ribs...something that can happen to anyone, doesn't make a player fragile when they get an injury from a big hit. He had no injury issues prior to that coming into the league.

I can name lots of players who had bad luck early in their career but put it behind them. Look at Stafford for instance...he was mocked to be made of glass due a couple bad luck shoulder injuries to start his first couple of years...now he's a franchise QB who no longer has injury concerns.

 

We are not going to be a serious SB contender this year anyway, no reason to abandon Sammy who is so young still when we NEED more talent here not less.

 

And we are still more talented than SF and Jets if we do so. Getting the 3rd pick just gets us the 3rd best QB still.

 

Maybe they thought the foot wasn't healing properly? Maybe they weren't comfortable paying Watkins a huge contract that didn't equal what he was doing on the field, We now have plenty of ammo to move up in the draft for a franchise QB if we exceed expectations. People are acting as if Matthews is some scrub, he's actually a quite capable WR2 or slot WR, he had his best season under Chip Kelly as the WR 1 but I think that will be Boldin, Matthews as WR2 and Jones in the slot, just my opinions though.

[Alphadawg7]

 

That's debatable. Without shady there'd be no offense here, and who knows what the defense will bring to the table.

 

To be fair, I am in the camp that thinks JWill has promise, and that was before yesterdays game. I just think our OL is really good in the run game, and JWill can still be effective. And if we trade TT I would think Peterman wins the job and while I know he has proven nothing yet, I just have more optimism about him than anyone Jets or SF is trotting out this year...but full disclosure, that has Bills fan biased written all over it lmao

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

To be fair, I am in the camp that thinks JWill has promise, and that was before yesterdays game. I just think our OL is really good in the run game, and JWill can still be effective. And if we trade TT I would think Peterman wins the job and while I know he has proven nothing yet, I just have more optimism about him than anyone Jets or SF is trotting out this year...but full disclosure, that has Bills fan biased written all over it lmao

 

no doubt

[Alphadawg7]

 

Maybe they thought the foot wasn't healing properly? Maybe they weren't comfortable paying Watkins a huge contract that didn't equal what he was doing on the field, We now have plenty of ammo to move up in the draft for a franchise QB if we exceed expectations. People are acting as if Matthews is some scrub, he's actually a quite capable WR2 or slot WR, he had his best season under Chip Kelly as the WR 1 but I think that will be Boldin, Matthews as WR2 and Jones in the slot, just my opinions though.

 

Matthews isnt a scrub, but on a Eagles team that needs weapons for its young QB, they were ready to move on from him and went out and got a trully injury prone WR to lean on in Alshon.

 

Watkins, excellent route runner. Matthews inconsistent route runner.

Watkins, excellent hands. Matthews, mediocre hands.

Add in Watkins is faster, more elusive, and a better deep threat...and its really a big difference.

 

And...everything I heard about him for Eagles fans was that he wasn't all that popular in the locker room and another reason they wanted to move on from him. I don't know if thats true, but 2 of my good friends are die hard Eagles fans and they were thrilled he was traded.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[John from Riverside]

Alpha....I relally think this had less to do with Sammy's injuries and more to do with they didnt think they were gonna be able to resign him....Bean eluded to as much today at his press conference (more then once)

 

I LOVE Sammy Watkins....and I hate that he is not here, but what if Beane is right....if he didnt want to resign then his value is never going to be higher then it is right now

[Scott7975]

 

QB needs WR's to throw too...its a two way street. We already had the WR, and enough draft ammo before the Sammy trade to get the QB. Why trade away half the puzzle?

Because we don't need a 20 million dollar receiver to throw to. They can get similar production for half the cost. Even if he is elite and stays healthy and everything you say... what is he going to produce over another good but not elite receiver? A few hundred more yards and a few more TDs? For 20 mil you can get a receiver to produce close to his production and a few more players. This team is finally starting to build the proper way... acquiring draft picks not dumping them and building through the draft and not FAs.