John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Don't make assumptions that might not turn out. Might be your side that is shut up by the season. I'd be thrilled to see him make the kind of leap he would have to make to be a franchise guy. It's just very unlikely to happen in his seventh year. Tyrod's no bargain right now. He's a reasonably priced player. And it wasn't pressure from the Pats threatening not to pick up his option that led Brady to accept his $20+ mill per year. Plus, is Tyrod married to a woman worth several hundred million? The two situations are not remotely comparable. Simpleton comparison. I dont think he becomes a franchise qb after 7 seasons either That is not to say he cannot be a servicable starter which is all i expect....in order to do that he needs to be set up for success just like any other nfl qb....when a better qb is found (for real....not all this hoping one will magically appear in the draft just because we want one) then Tyrod is replaced I dont see the need to degrade the guy after taking a 10 million dollar pay cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 You're going to do that? For me? Fantastic. We already know that Brady and Rivers spread it across the field and Tyrod doesn't. That and the fact that the pundits already know that he doesn't pass over the middle much and that that holds him back ... that's enough for me and for pretty much everyone. Not for people who are wild-eyed Tyrod fans on sixpacks of Red Bull, but for pretty much everyone else. But if you're going to do that, I'd be really willing and interested to see what you find. You're so lazy... and wrong. Guess you won't do the thing I just requested in my edited post. Truth here Thurm is you're very narrow minded. I don't think I'm the first to say that to you. I won't be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Out of everything you said, which I'll try to get to, this is the most sad and telling statement about your approach to this Tyrod discussion. It is provable, just go watch the plays for every QB to gain the context in the same manner you did with Taylor. And do it with an objective eye, which I'll assume you had with Taylor's plays. That's going to provide the necessary context for your argument. I look forward to reading this comprehensive post from you. No, it's not provable. I looked at Tyrod's film and it was quite clear he had open receivers he could have seen and on a consistent basis. But I didn't attempt to put a score on it. You suggest I compare. There's nothing to compare. Would I say Tyrod's receivers were open by a factor of 6.5 while Rivers' receivers were open by a factor of 6.2, so Rivers had a tough time? The idea's ridiculous. I contend it's utterly impossible. What guidelines would you use to compare openness of receivers and compare them across schemes and routes and route trees and so on. If you think I've ever done that for Tyrod, you're wrong. All I said for Tyrod is that guys were open significantly and very consistently. But hey, if you can come up with some kind of reasonable scoring system for openness, go for it. You're so lazy... and wrong. Guess you won't do the thing I just requested in my edited post. Truth here Thurm is you're very narrow minded. I don't think I'm the first to say that to you. I won't be the last. I'll tell you what, I'll do it if you will. You are quick to suggest work for other people and avoid it yourself. As soon as you finish the study you suggest, I'll do my own and we can compare. If I'm lazy, what are you? Waiting to see the results of your study. And since you apparently mean by "narrow minded" a person who doesn't eat, breathe, drink, smoke and dream about Tyrod 24/7, yeah, I guess by those standards I'm narrow-minded. And actually, seriously, you are the first to call me that. The very first. That's context. I've been called arrogant a few times on the internet, with some justification. Sarcastic. Snarky. Those are things I work on, but I could definitely stand to improve. But never narrow-minded. Edited March 16, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I dont think he becomes a franchise qb after 7 seasons either That is not to say he cannot be a servicable starter which is all i expect....in order to do that he needs to be set up for success just like any other nfl qb....when a better qb is found (for real....not all this hoping one will magically appear in the draft just because we want one) then Tyrod is replaced I dont see the need to degrade the guy after taking a 10 million dollar pay cut I don't feel I'm degrading him. I am sorry you see it that way. And if serviceable starter is roughly what he is now in your view, with maybe some small improvements, yeah, I think that's a reasonable expectation. I just don't see us as a Super Bowl contender with Tyrod unless the defense becomes one of the all-time greats. But while he's had to fight through some receiver problems, he's been set up for success in many ways. They paid through the nose for Clay, one of the best receiving TEs in the league. They got a line that's better than most OLs in the league. Yeah, they should be working on an upgrade at RT, but lines with five good players side-by-side are very rare in these days of free agency. The Bills OL is one of the better ones in the league. And pretty much every other QB in the league except maybe Dallas would kill for the run game that takes so much pressure off Tyrod. He has been set up for success. He's had some obstacles too, but an awful lot of advantages. But yeah, I'd like to see them improve the WRs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 That's some good analysis there. A little scattershot but I appreciate the effort you took to compile this. I'm not sold on Tyrod after this past year but I think we'll find out what we have in him if folks stay healthy and the defense starts turning things around. I agree. Thanks, OP. I'll add to your post that having a 3rd OC in his 3 years here will unfortunately hamper any hopeful improvement in TT's overall game as new blocking schemes, pass plays and jargon will be 'learn on the fly'. Inevitably deleterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Why? I don't know. I don't have answers for anything that happened. Neither does anyone else. I said when the season ended it was going to be one big game of chicken until someone flinches, from the moment Taylor said he would have been willing to restructure on clean-out day was. Once he said that, he lost a lot of leverage. And yeah, he talked to other teams, but we don't know anything more than that. Maybe you're right (that is, if you're one of the people here claiming you know why Taylor took less money) and Taylor found out few teams would be interested and they wouldn't offer much. Or maybe the teams interested were offering him significant money, but the teams themselves weren't teams he wanted to be with for whatever reason. Or maybe he was "going through the motions" and telling his agent to go talking to teams but make sure it gets back to Whaley that he's doing as part of that larger game of chicken. I don't know, do you? Or are you just guessing? It's not just a restructure, it's a big pay cut as well in salary and guaranteed money. This happened 7 months after signing the original extension. Has that ever happened before? Less than a year after a QB signs a big contract he takes a pay cut and gets clauses put in where the team can cut them with minimal penalties? He didn't lose leverage at locker room clean out day. He was already benched for business reasons in week 17....the Bills already weren't comfortable with moving forward with the original contract. His on field play is what lost him his leverage....you admitted he was disappointing in 2016....the Bills feel the same. No, no one knows for sure the behind the scenes. It just looks like it makes more sense that he wasn't going to get the value on the market he thought he was. I think he could have gotten a little more but only for the short term. He's betting on himself because he can earn more money if he proves it after 2 years. Because maybe buying things on sale for cheaper than for what they're worth is considered smart... I bought a 55' 4K 6 series Samsung TV for $470 a month ago. Literally nothing wrong with the TV, Costco just got a new shipment in so they were moving stuff out. I didn't not buy it because l figured the price was too good to be true. Sooo...is Brady only as good as his annual salary? Simpleton logic... Comparing NFL contracts to purchasing electronics isn't a good comparison. Brady is also nearing 40 years old and his contract while his cap hit isn't huge, with bonuses his two year deal is worth $60 million. He's still making a lot. Edited March 16, 2017 by Teeflebees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Transplant Nothing is gonna shut these guys up except the season I only hope they do give TT decent pass catcher's to work with so he isnt throwing to street free agents this year Or he could just throw it to the professional wideouts that are wide open. Brandon Tate is still open in the EZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) You just listed Carson Wentz who the Eagles gave up a boatload of picks for. if you really would rather have Tyrod over Wentz after last year you are just a TT fanboy. Indeed, as much as receivers Alshon Jeffery and Torrey Smith decided to sign with the Eagles for the strength of the organization and a decent contract, they mostly signed because of Wentz. They mostly chose Philadelphia because of what that have seen of the Eagles quarterback as a rookie, and the respect Wentz has already gained around the NFL. On Monday Smith said that he was excited to play with the Eagles in large part because of what he saw from Wentz in terms of the leadership Wentz showed as a rookie. Smith said he watched how the Eagles responded to Wentz, and he knew that was no small achievement for any rookie, let alone a rookie quarterback from a small school.' http://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-wentz-makes-eagles-long-last-desirable-destination-again/ Meanwhile TT can't even draw Andre Holmes. Common theme among the Tyrod detractors is to bring up Wentz. Which lead me to believe you didn't pay attention to the Eagles last year. Those first four weeks though. Edited March 16, 2017 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Common theme among the Tyrod detractors is to bring up Wentz. Which lead me to believe you didn't pay attention to the Eagles last year. Those first four weeks though. Would you prefer to have Taylor or Wentz under center going forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Common theme among the Tyrod detractors is to bring up Wentz. Which lead me to believe you didn't pay attention to the Eagles last year. Those first four weeks though. I saw a lot of Wentz after week 4. He has a chance to be a franchise QB. He can make every NFL throw. Take off your Bills colored glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 transplantbillsfan, welcome to TBD. It took me a while to get through and digest your post, but now that I have, let me say "nicely done." I hope there's some room here for more analytical posts ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 transplantbillsfan, welcome to TBD. It took me a while to get through and digest your post, but now that I have, let me say "nicely done." I hope there's some room here for more analytical posts ... At the other board there were like 4 posters who made it a point to come into every Tyrod thread and talk bad about him, literally all of their posts were about how Tyrod sucks. Seems like there's only 2 of those posters here. So an upgrade by my count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Let's see how it goes under a new coaching staff. The last one was never good at developing QB's anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Tyrod isn't great but hes not a bottom 5 QB... From simply last year's starters (not potential), you would rather cutler, fitz, osweiler, kaepernick, keenum, wentz, mccown, siemien, bortles, Bradford? Those are just 10 at the top of my head who were easily worse than tyrod Well, that's the thing, isn't it ... there weren't a lot of great options out there (although I think Wentz doesn't belong on this list, and Mike Glennon does) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 transplantbillsfan, welcome to TBD. It took me a while to get through and digest your post, but now that I have, let me say "nicely done." I hope there's some room here for more analytical posts ... Yeah, I agree, you did your homework and put a lot into that post and it was quite nicely done. Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Great post, OP. Drives home my opinion that many QBs falter when missing WR1/WR2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Great post, OP. Drives home my opinion that many QBs falter when missing WR1/WR2. Many qb's falter without a run game to keep defenses honest as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Many qb's falter without a run game to keep defenses honest as well. Definitely! I mean, we've been down this road before, you know my opinion of Tyrod is that he's a middle of the road guy. Good enough to not lose us games, but not good enough to carry a bad team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You don't consider yourself a Tyrod extremist? His entire piece was a Tyrod stat massage. Well, if we do this and do that. The fact of the matter is that Tyrod Taylor was sheltered in the most run heavy offense in the NFL and was not asked to do as much as other QB's, even rookies like Wentz. The Bills were quite ready to walk away from the option and were looking at players like Glennon and Siemian as replacements. Tyrod's agent couldn't find a similar offer to the option so he took a paycut and is playing on a bridge QB contract. That's how the NFL and the Bills view Tyrod. Someone to hold down the fort until someone better can be obtained and not a long term solution. There is no reason to argue about this as if there is anything else there. The only ones left that do not hold this view are the CoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 He's a slightly better Alex Smith in my opinion. Slightly better because of his big play ability. Pantsed !! http://youtube.com/watch?feature=onebox&v=tDBSINV3tAo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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