NoSaint Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) I think you were right in the sense that TT didn't always identify and deliver the quick throw when maybe he should have. yea, if hes only throwing it on the easiest and most obvious opportunities, it makes sense that the numbers would shoot up. im not sure thats the case but the numbers alone dont tell it all here. especially in these small groupings (like 4-5 36yds for a game) Edited March 13, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Ahhh he's not ranked in the 20's on blogs. Mind blown. Time to buy a new jar of mayonnaise. You're scraping the sides... How do you like the Scouting Academy? What are the most eye-opening or surprising things you're learning there? I hope Whaley was sitting next to you... Thanks Erik. Good stuff as always. Good God! In the shotgun 88% of the time?. I'm not a huge Tyrod guy, but here's to hoping the new system and coaches can revive this passing game. So? The league average is 79% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cover1 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Wow tons of questions...I dont know where to begin. One that caught my eye is the question about 8 sacks from the limited number of snaps from under center. That is a great point and something I will see if we can go back and analyze. For the record, 15 of TTs QB sacks were credited to him per PFF. I found a few..Ill add more as we find them. 1-https://twitter.com/Cover1Bills/status/810152629456211968 2-https://twitter.com/Cover1Bills/status/808793023719047168 3-https://twitter.com/Cover1Bills/status/804138266941386752 4. This counts as a sack believe it or not-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeFKAFMcHyw 5. https://gfycat.com/AgonizingLividIrishterrier I also think the amount of time we spent in the gun does the O a disadvantage, almost anytime we were under center if almost guaranteed run. The Bills had 332 plays from under center, that means 246 plays were run plays (332-46passes). If that is not cluing the D, I dont know what is. I don't want people to think like we are saying the coaches don't know what they are doing, I KNOW they know much more than us. The point of this examination was to show what was asked of TT within the scope of the offense. I have personally studied the offense heavily the last two years. If you have been following me you know that I loved Roman and his run offense but have always felt the passing game was vanilla. Some may say its bc of TT, but I come to that conclusion on Roman since entering the league. His passing offenses have not been complex, have not been conducive to developing a QB. They have been very good with athletic QBs who stand back there and if nothing opens up then they take off. They have had WRs that can separate typically based on athletic talent alone, ie speed, or physicality at the top of the route. It has not been a scheme that has designed plays specifically to get guys open. It asked its QBs to find the best matchup, or if you see single high throw it deep or to the deep comeback bc they have 1 on 1 outside. Single high zone coverages jam up the middle of the field and underneath, so I can see why he decided to look elsewhere. Check out the numbers to the middle of the field tho. TT's % of passes to middle of the field (does not include behind the line of scrimmage passes) '16 Att 34% Comp 28% Yards 33% TDs 10% INTs 0% '15 Att 33% Comp 37% Yds 31% TDs 33% INTs 67% TT's completion % Middle of the field '16 70.5%, '15 71.4% In my opinion, based on my experience as a coach, player and from watching the prior two seasons TT looks better from under center. One of his biggest issues, or perceived issues-accuracy, gets cleaned up when asked to focus on a drop. This would also help his play action bc the second level LBs will flow downhill, instead of horizontally, which can open up passes to the intermediate area. Edited March 13, 2017 by cover1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthBuffaloKid Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Good read. Taylor didn't show any growth last season and seemed to regress. I hope that the coaching change will help him this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 i appreciate you coming back and adding more to it --- we have had plenty of folks that get their clicks and then ditch the thread. its definitely great that you enjoy participating in the discussions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cover1 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 i appreciate you coming back and adding more to it --- we have had plenty of folks that get their clicks and then ditch the thread. its definitely great that you enjoy participating in the discussions! No problem at all, I am going to have Rylan come discuss as he did all of the legwork on this one. The point NoSaint is making is that Mills was out there for both. It makes the reason he solely was difference between sacks allowed under center and sacks allowed out of the shotgun unlikely. But to your point NoSaint, could it be as simple as the gun, while worse for TT's passing ability, better for his elusiveness? Has to be easier to avoid the rush when they take wider angles, less up front pressure, etc. Furthermore, I think we need a contrast between 2016 and 2015. He was a much better producer in '15 and for all we know, he murdered it in the gun versus under center that entire year. Context and all that. Great points here, it does play into the elusiveness factor if no one is open which is built into Romans offense. But gun was also supposed to help him with his field vision. But it is our opinion they needed to do more deeper drops (which they did the last three games) to help him see over the line even more. Something that the hawks and Saints do for their QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 No problem at all, I am going to have Rylan come discuss as he did all of the legwork on this one. sounds good... like i mentioned up thread, i was surprised by the assertion as it didnt particularly fit my impression, but then i noticed undertones that maybe i wasnt totally off in my thoughts. i dig the in depth stats and analysis though, even (especially) when they end up surprising me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 A lot of times we as fans criticize players on their play or style of play but fail to recognize the context of their play within the scope of the offense. I am currently going through scouting school at the Scouting Academy and the first thing they teach is context. So we wanted to analyze TT's play within the context of the offense-what it asked of him. Then to figure out where and how he could have been better or better utilized. Rylan charted the entire 2016 season and this is what he found. After reading this, I am sure you can see why he was brought back to be paired with Rick Dennison. http://www.cover1.net/2017/03/tyrod-taylors-2016-passing-campaign-misinterpreted-misused/ always stoked when you post 👍🏿 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Re Sacks, if Tyrod is running either designed or doesn't see what he likes, and he's caught behind the line, is that a Sack? One thing I noticed last year that doesn't get much discussion... Tyrod is pretty good at trying to minimize losses behind the line, he often escapes an initial sack attempt, and either runs for a gain, throws it away, or get's closer to the line. Possibly reflected in yards per sack? Still, he does take too many sacks because he doesn't like to throw the ball away, and he doesn't like to throw to covered receivers that aren't named Sammy Watkins. Name Tm Sk Yds Yd/sk Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ 19 81 4.26 Tyrod Taylor BUF 42 192 4.57 Derek Carr* OAK 16 79 4.94 Alex Smith* KAN 28 140 5.00 Philip Rivers* SDG 36 188 5.22 Dak Prescott* DAL 25 143 5.72 Colin Kaepernick SFO 36 207 5.75 Blake Bortles JAX 34 197 5.79 Tom Brady* NWE 15 87 5.80 Matthew Stafford DET 37 216 5.84 Trevor Siemian DEN 31 187 6.03 Case Keenum LAR 23 140 6.09 Matt Ryan*+ ATL 37 235 6.35 Andy Dalton* CIN 41 264 6.44 Carson Wentz PHI 33 213 6.45 Andrew Luck IND 41 268 6.54 Eli Manning NYG 21 142 6.76 Marcus Mariota TEN 23 156 6.78 Drew Brees* NOR 27 184 6.81 Jameis Winston TAM 35 239 6.83 Carson Palmer ARI 40 281 7.03 Aaron Rodgers* GNB 35 246 7.03 Russell Wilson SEA 41 293 7.15 Joe Flacco BAL 33 243 7.36 Ryan Tannehill MIA 29 216 7.45 Sam Bradford MIN 37 276 7.46 Brock Osweiler HOU 27 206 7.63 Cam Newton CAR 36 277 7.69 Kirk Cousins* WAS 23 190 8.26 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 17 141 8.29 The other thing that people do talk about, but kinda gloss over, imo, is productivity in running. Sure it's not the same as being a prolific passer, but if you're getting yards and first downs, then that's better than not. Tyrod led the league in running attempts, yards, TDs, and in yards per attempt* as a runner. Our offense was designed with Tyrod to have the flexibility to run a lot... I wonder if coaches tell him that it's fine to hold on to the ball for an opportunity to run, vs just throwing it away. Name Tm Pos Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Colin Kaepernick SFO QB 69 468 2 30 6.8 39.0 5.8 Tyrod Taylor BUF QB 95 580 6 49 6.1 38.7 6.3 Cam Newton CAR QB 90 359 5 28 4.0 23.9 6.0 Marcus Mariota TEN QB 60 349 2 41 5.8 23.3 4.0 Aaron Rodgers* GNB QB 67 369 4 23 5.5 23.1 4.2 Andrew Luck IND QB 64 341 2 33 5.3 22.7 4.3 Blake Bortles JAX QB 58 359 3 27 6.2 22.4 3.6 Dak Prescott* DAL QB 57 282 6 18 4.9 17.6 3.6 Russell Wilson SEA QB 72 259 1 18 3.6 16.2 4.5 Matthew Stafford DET QB 37 207 2 24 5.6 12.9 2.3 Ryan Tannehill MIA QB 39 164 1 18 4.2 12.6 3.0 Andy Dalton* CIN QB 46 184 4 15 4.0 11.5 2.9 Jameis Winston TAM QB 53 165 1 14 3.1 10.3 3.3 Carson Wentz PHI QB 46 150 2 17 3.3 9.4 2.9 Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ QB 33 130 0 14 3.9 9.3 2.4 Alex Smith* KAN QB 48 134 5 24 2.8 8.9 3.2 Brock Osweiler HOU QB 30 131 2 21 4.4 8.7 2.0 Matt Ryan*+ ATL QB 35 117 0 18 3.3 7.3 2.2 Kirk Cousins* WAS QB 34 96 4 19 2.8 6.0 2.1 Tom Brady* NWE QB 28 64 0 15 2.3 5.3 2.3 Case Keenum LAR QB 20 51 1 13 2.6 5.1 2.0 Derek Carr* OAK QB 39 70 0 13 1.8 4.7 2.6 Trevor Siemian DEN QB 28 57 0 14 2.0 4.1 2.0 Joe Flacco BAL QB 21 58 2 16 2.8 3.6 1.3 Sam Bradford MIN QB 20 53 0 24 2.7 3.5 1.3 Carson Palmer ARI QB 14 38 0 16 2.7 2.5 0.9 Philip Rivers* SDG QB 14 35 0 10 2.5 2.2 0.9 Cody Kessler CLE QB 11 18 0 8 1.6 2.0 1.2 Drew Brees* NOR QB 23 20 2 7 0.9 1.3 1.4 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT QB 16 14 1 14 0.9 1.0 1.1 Eli Manning NYG QB 21 -9 0 6 -0.4 -0.6 1.3 I haven't watched game tape or anything, but I think the above two metrics tell a better story of Tyrod than just simply 'he gets sacked a lot'. * misread A/Y vs Y/A, Tyrod was 3rd in Y/A Edited March 13, 2017 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Re Sacks, if Tyrod is running either designed or doesn't see what he likes, and he's caught behind the line, is that a Sack? One thing I noticed last year that doesn't get much discussion... Tyrod is pretty good at trying to minimize losses behind the line, he often escapes an initial sack attempt, and either runs for a gain, throws it away, or get's closer to the line. Possibly reflected in yards per sack? Still, he does take too many sacks because he doesn't like to throw the ball away, and he doesn't like to throw to covered receivers that aren't named Sammy Watkins. Name Tm Sk Yds Yd/sk Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ 19 81 4.26 Tyrod Taylor BUF 42 192 4.57 Derek Carr* OAK 16 79 4.94 Alex Smith* KAN 28 140 5.00 Philip Rivers* SDG 36 188 5.22 Dak Prescott* DAL 25 143 5.72 Colin Kaepernick SFO 36 207 5.75 Blake Bortles JAX 34 197 5.79 Tom Brady* NWE 15 87 5.80 Matthew Stafford DET 37 216 5.84 Trevor Siemian DEN 31 187 6.03 Case Keenum LAR 23 140 6.09 Matt Ryan*+ ATL 37 235 6.35 Andy Dalton* CIN 41 264 6.44 Carson Wentz PHI 33 213 6.45 Andrew Luck IND 41 268 6.54 Eli Manning NYG 21 142 6.76 Marcus Mariota TEN 23 156 6.78 Drew Brees* NOR 27 184 6.81 Jameis Winston TAM 35 239 6.83 Carson Palmer ARI 40 281 7.03 Aaron Rodgers* GNB 35 246 7.03 Russell Wilson SEA 41 293 7.15 Joe Flacco BAL 33 243 7.36 Ryan Tannehill MIA 29 216 7.45 Sam Bradford MIN 37 276 7.46 Brock Osweiler HOU 27 206 7.63 Cam Newton CAR 36 277 7.69 Kirk Cousins* WAS 23 190 8.26 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 17 141 8.29 The other thing that people do talk about, but kinda gloss over, imo, is productivity in running. Sure it's not the same as being a prolific passer, but if you're getting yards and first downs, then that's better than not. Tyrod led the league in running attempts, yards, TDs, and was pretty close to being a leader in yards per attempt as a runner. Our offense was designed with Tyrod to have the flexibility to run a lot... I wonder if coaches tell him that it's fine to hold on to the ball for an opportunity to run, vs just throwing it away. Name Tm Pos Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Colin Kaepernick SFO QB 69 468 2 30 6.8 39.0 5.8 Tyrod Taylor BUF QB 95 580 6 49 6.1 38.7 6.3 Cam Newton CAR QB 90 359 5 28 4.0 23.9 6.0 Marcus Mariota TEN QB 60 349 2 41 5.8 23.3 4.0 Aaron Rodgers* GNB QB 67 369 4 23 5.5 23.1 4.2 Andrew Luck IND QB 64 341 2 33 5.3 22.7 4.3 Blake Bortles JAX QB 58 359 3 27 6.2 22.4 3.6 Dak Prescott* DAL QB 57 282 6 18 4.9 17.6 3.6 Russell Wilson SEA QB 72 259 1 18 3.6 16.2 4.5 Matthew Stafford DET QB 37 207 2 24 5.6 12.9 2.3 Ryan Tannehill MIA QB 39 164 1 18 4.2 12.6 3.0 Andy Dalton* CIN QB 46 184 4 15 4.0 11.5 2.9 Jameis Winston TAM QB 53 165 1 14 3.1 10.3 3.3 Carson Wentz PHI QB 46 150 2 17 3.3 9.4 2.9 Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ QB 33 130 0 14 3.9 9.3 2.4 Alex Smith* KAN QB 48 134 5 24 2.8 8.9 3.2 Brock Osweiler HOU QB 30 131 2 21 4.4 8.7 2.0 Matt Ryan*+ ATL QB 35 117 0 18 3.3 7.3 2.2 Kirk Cousins* WAS QB 34 96 4 19 2.8 6.0 2.1 Tom Brady* NWE QB 28 64 0 15 2.3 5.3 2.3 Case Keenum LAR QB 20 51 1 13 2.6 5.1 2.0 Derek Carr* OAK QB 39 70 0 13 1.8 4.7 2.6 Trevor Siemian DEN QB 28 57 0 14 2.0 4.1 2.0 Joe Flacco BAL QB 21 58 2 16 2.8 3.6 1.3 Sam Bradford MIN QB 20 53 0 24 2.7 3.5 1.3 Carson Palmer ARI QB 14 38 0 16 2.7 2.5 0.9 Philip Rivers* SDG QB 14 35 0 10 2.5 2.2 0.9 Cody Kessler CLE QB 11 18 0 8 1.6 2.0 1.2 Drew Brees* NOR QB 23 20 2 7 0.9 1.3 1.4 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT QB 16 14 1 14 0.9 1.0 1.1 Eli Manning NYG QB 21 -9 0 6 -0.4 -0.6 1.3 I haven't watched game tape or anything, but I think the above two metrics tell a better story of Tyrod than just simply ' I believe designed runs don't count as sacks, for what it's worth. Edited March 13, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Is there a definition, or is it one of those subjective things? Someone just looks at it and determines if passing was an option that play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Is there a definition, or is it one of those subjective things? Someone just looks at it and determines if passing was an option that play? Probably closer to subjective, but if your QB tucks the ball, he's running. Run-pass options would be a toughie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Yeah, makes sense. Also makes stats messy... but stats are always messy when you involve humans, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cover1 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Re Sacks, if Tyrod is running either designed or doesn't see what he likes, and he's caught behind the line, is that a Sack? One thing I noticed last year that doesn't get much discussion... Tyrod is pretty good at trying to minimize losses behind the line, he often escapes an initial sack attempt, and either runs for a gain, throws it away, or get's closer to the line. Possibly reflected in yards per sack? Still, he does take too many sacks because he doesn't like to throw the ball away, and he doesn't like to throw to covered receivers that aren't named Sammy Watkins. Name Tm Sk Yds Yd/sk Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ 19 81 4.26 Tyrod Taylor BUF 42 192 4.57 Derek Carr* OAK 16 79 4.94 Alex Smith* KAN 28 140 5.00 Philip Rivers* SDG 36 188 5.22 Dak Prescott* DAL 25 143 5.72 Colin Kaepernick SFO 36 207 5.75 Blake Bortles JAX 34 197 5.79 Tom Brady* NWE 15 87 5.80 Matthew Stafford DET 37 216 5.84 Trevor Siemian DEN 31 187 6.03 Case Keenum LAR 23 140 6.09 Matt Ryan*+ ATL 37 235 6.35 Andy Dalton* CIN 41 264 6.44 Carson Wentz PHI 33 213 6.45 Andrew Luck IND 41 268 6.54 Eli Manning NYG 21 142 6.76 Marcus Mariota TEN 23 156 6.78 Drew Brees* NOR 27 184 6.81 Jameis Winston TAM 35 239 6.83 Carson Palmer ARI 40 281 7.03 Aaron Rodgers* GNB 35 246 7.03 Russell Wilson SEA 41 293 7.15 Joe Flacco BAL 33 243 7.36 Ryan Tannehill MIA 29 216 7.45 Sam Bradford MIN 37 276 7.46 Brock Osweiler HOU 27 206 7.63 Cam Newton CAR 36 277 7.69 Kirk Cousins* WAS 23 190 8.26 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT 17 141 8.29 The other thing that people do talk about, but kinda gloss over, imo, is productivity in running. Sure it's not the same as being a prolific passer, but if you're getting yards and first downs, then that's better than not. Tyrod led the league in running attempts, yards, TDs, and in yards per attempt as a runner. Our offense was designed with Tyrod to have the flexibility to run a lot... I wonder if coaches tell him that it's fine to hold on to the ball for an opportunity to run, vs just throwing it away. Name Tm Pos Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Colin Kaepernick SFO QB 69 468 2 30 6.8 39.0 5.8 Tyrod Taylor BUF QB 95 580 6 49 6.1 38.7 6.3 Cam Newton CAR QB 90 359 5 28 4.0 23.9 6.0 Marcus Mariota TEN QB 60 349 2 41 5.8 23.3 4.0 Aaron Rodgers* GNB QB 67 369 4 23 5.5 23.1 4.2 Andrew Luck IND QB 64 341 2 33 5.3 22.7 4.3 Blake Bortles JAX QB 58 359 3 27 6.2 22.4 3.6 Dak Prescott* DAL QB 57 282 6 18 4.9 17.6 3.6 Russell Wilson SEA QB 72 259 1 18 3.6 16.2 4.5 Matthew Stafford DET QB 37 207 2 24 5.6 12.9 2.3 Ryan Tannehill MIA QB 39 164 1 18 4.2 12.6 3.0 Andy Dalton* CIN QB 46 184 4 15 4.0 11.5 2.9 Jameis Winston TAM QB 53 165 1 14 3.1 10.3 3.3 Carson Wentz PHI QB 46 150 2 17 3.3 9.4 2.9 Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ QB 33 130 0 14 3.9 9.3 2.4 Alex Smith* KAN QB 48 134 5 24 2.8 8.9 3.2 Brock Osweiler HOU QB 30 131 2 21 4.4 8.7 2.0 Matt Ryan*+ ATL QB 35 117 0 18 3.3 7.3 2.2 Kirk Cousins* WAS QB 34 96 4 19 2.8 6.0 2.1 Tom Brady* NWE QB 28 64 0 15 2.3 5.3 2.3 Case Keenum LAR QB 20 51 1 13 2.6 5.1 2.0 Derek Carr* OAK QB 39 70 0 13 1.8 4.7 2.6 Trevor Siemian DEN QB 28 57 0 14 2.0 4.1 2.0 Joe Flacco BAL QB 21 58 2 16 2.8 3.6 1.3 Sam Bradford MIN QB 20 53 0 24 2.7 3.5 1.3 Carson Palmer ARI QB 14 38 0 16 2.7 2.5 0.9 Philip Rivers* SDG QB 14 35 0 10 2.5 2.2 0.9 Cody Kessler CLE QB 11 18 0 8 1.6 2.0 1.2 Drew Brees* NOR QB 23 20 2 7 0.9 1.3 1.4 Ben Roethlisberger* PIT QB 16 14 1 14 0.9 1.0 1.1 Eli Manning NYG QB 21 -9 0 6 -0.4 -0.6 1.3 I haven't watched game tape or anything, but I think the above two metrics tell a better story of Tyrod than just simply 'he gets sacked a lot'. I believe designed runs don't count as sacks, for what it's worth. They do tho, which is dumb lol for example in the SF game, we were charged three sacks. 2 by armstead and 1 by Buckner. Including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeFKAFMcHyw Definition of a sack In order for a play to be considered a sack, it must be obvious that the quarterback either intends to throw a forward pass, or is still in the pocket without a clear, discernable objective for the play. If the play was a designed rush for the quarterback, a tackle of the quarterback behind the line of scrimmage does not count as a sack, but rather as negative rushing yards by the quarterback. If a defensive player makes physical contact with a quarterback who is then ruled down by contact that is also counted as a sack. The quarterback must pass the statistical line of scrimmage to avoid a sack. A sack is also credited when a defender causes the quarterback to fumble the ball and the defending team recovers the ball behind the original line of scrimmage. Quarterbacks often opt to throw the ball away to avoid getting sacked. This way, the result of the play would just be a loss of down, rather than a loss of yards and a loss of down. However, when the ball is thrown up-field in order to avoid a sack, there must be a reasonable chance of completion. Otherwise, the quarterback will be called for intentional grounding. Intentional grounding is a violation of the rules in which a pass throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. This most often occurs when a quarterback is trying to avoid a sack. Edited March 13, 2017 by cover1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 They do tho, which is dumb lol for example in the SF game, we were charged three sacks. 2 by armstead and 1 by Buckner. Including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeFKAFMcHyw Definition of a sack In order for a play to be considered a sack, it must be obvious that the quarterback either intends to throw a forward pass, or is still in the pocket without a clear, discernable objective for the play. If the play was a designed rush for the quarterback, a tackle of the quarterback behind the line of scrimmage does not count as a sack, but rather as negative rushing yards by the quarterback. If a defensive player makes physical contact with a quarterback who is then ruled down by contact that is also counted as a sack. The quarterback must pass the statistical line of scrimmage to avoid a sack. A sack is also credited when a defender causes the quarterback to fumble the ball and the defending team recovers the ball behind the original line of scrimmage. Quarterbacks often opt to throw the ball away to avoid getting sacked. This way, the result of the play would just be a loss of down, rather than a loss of yards and a loss of down. However, when the ball is thrown up-field in order to avoid a sack, there must be a reasonable chance of completion. Otherwise, the quarterback will be called for intentional grounding. Intentional grounding is a violation of the rules in which a pass throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. This most often occurs when a quarterback is trying to avoid a sack. That is a sack IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cover1 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 That is a sack IMO. Thats the way I read it and after checking box score I believe it was counted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 BBMB refugees are gonna hate where this conversation is going, but I guess I'll chime in. But you can easily distinguish between designed runs and scrambles. They're 2 very different plays just based on what the offense does. I had done this for 2015 and 2016 by looking at the NFL play-by-plays to see whether they classified it as a "run" or "scramble" and then I watched the plays myself to make a judgment call. It boils down to this in 2016, Taylor is credited for 95 rushes for 580 yards for 6.1 YPC. But 5 of those "rushes" were actually kneeldowns for a total of -6 yards. Those aren't sacks, they're credited as runs. So the reality of Taylor's plays where he actually ran was 90 rushes for 586 yards for 6.5 YPC. Regarding plays where Taylor scrambles (plays where he actually took the snap with a play design to get the ball out of his hand), Taylor scrambled 47 times for 371 yards for 7.9 YPC. 14 of those scrambles were on 3rd down and he converted 7 of them for 1st down. 2 were TDs. By contrast, he "only" gained 209 yards on 43 rushes for 4.9 YPC. What I'd like to see Dennison do is cut out the designed runs altogether, but encourage him to use his legs to scramble on passing plays as he sees fit. I know some will disagree with me there and say that you don't want to encourage that because then the belief is he's less likely to stay in the pocket and pass. But Taylor scrambles more efficiently than most NFL QBs pass the football, so I say walk the fine line of trying to develop him as a passer while still supporting the use of his greatest asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 BBMB refugees are gonna hate where this conversation is going, but I guess I'll chime in. But you can easily distinguish between designed runs and scrambles. They're 2 very different plays just based on what the offense does. I had done this for 2015 and 2016 by looking at the NFL play-by-plays to see whether they classified it as a "run" or "scramble" and then I watched the plays myself to make a judgment call. It boils down to this in 2016, Taylor is credited for 95 rushes for 580 yards for 6.1 YPC. But 5 of those "rushes" were actually kneeldowns for a total of -6 yards. Those aren't sacks, they're credited as runs. So the reality of Taylor's plays where he actually ran was 90 rushes for 586 yards for 6.5 YPC. Regarding plays where Taylor scrambles (plays where he actually took the snap with a play design to get the ball out of his hand), Taylor scrambled 47 times for 371 yards for 7.9 YPC. 14 of those scrambles were on 3rd down and he converted 7 of them for 1st down. 2 were TDs. By contrast, he "only" gained 209 yards on 43 rushes for 4.9 YPC. What I'd like to see Dennison do is cut out the designed runs altogether, but encourage him to use his legs to scramble on passing plays as he sees fit. I know some will disagree with me there and say that you don't want to encourage that because then the belief is he's less likely to stay in the pocket and pass. But Taylor scrambles more efficiently than most NFL QBs pass the football, so I say walk the fine line of trying to develop him as a passer while still supporting the use of his greatest asset. Its great to read relevant posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud420 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Here is the context...7-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Here is the context...7-9 That is the absence of context. There are a myriad of factors involved in a team's success and there's no reason to rehash all that now. When it comes to breaking down an individual's performance, all those other factors go out the window. TT, along with every other player's performance, can be analyzed individually within the narrow parameters of how each player executes his own position on every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts