baskingridgebillsfan Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I actually respect Cosell's opinion But.....if I understand what he is saying - Tyrod is a starting qb but not a franchise qb (we all knew that) - The REPLACEMENT for Tyrod is not in this draft soooooo what are the bills supposed to do according to Cossel His point is we can also see what Taylor is , Cosell's believes he will not improve on his short comings. Then why would you keep him. Try somebody else . Glennon , foles ect. the difference between winning 6 or 7 games means nothing but you might find someone that can win more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 You are acting as if we made the playoffs last year. 2014 Bills 9 wins 2015 Bills 8 wins 2016 Bills 7 wins My guess based on current free agency losses is that this next number will be 6. I don't need to blow up anything, Bills team is not that good. And you are just listing players. Every NFL team has players. Only 3-4 teams have much worse rosters than ours. We are what we are, drafting top ten and our talent will BE WORSE THIS YEAR. We are going to have to disagree if you want the Bills to basically become an expansion team in hopes of....what exactly? We just jettisoned the biggest on field albatross possible. Yes he cost us 2 years while we had a viable....or better....roster, and yes he forced us to waste a pick on a guy like Ragland and way overdraft Lawson to fit his ridiculous system, but there are still guys here. I'm "just listing players" and that doesn't stack up with the complexity of your 9,8,7............6 analysis? Okay. His point is we can also see what Taylor is , Cosell's believes he will not improve on his short comings. Then why would you keep him. Try somebody else . Glennon , foles ect. the difference between winning 6 or 7 games means nothing but you might find someone that can win more. Foles or Glennon might develop but Tyrod can't sounds like the Al Campanis school of QB scouting. I'm sorry but it just does. Why would 2 of the three be viable candidates to improve but the one who can't is the one who has shown the most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) We are going to have to disagree if you want the Bills to basically become an expansion team in hopes of....what exactly? We just jettisoned the biggest on field albatross possible. Yes he cost us 2 years while we had a viable....or better....roster, and yes he forced us to waste a pick on a guy like Ragland and way overdraft Lawson to fit his ridiculous system, but there are still guys here. I'm "just listing players" and that doesn't stack up with the complexity of your 9,8,7............6 analysis? Okay. Where did I say expansion team? If you are going to put words in my mouth you need to explain what you mean. My main point is that yes, Rex ruined the defense but what many fans missed is that this team got older and less talented too. Defense peaked in 2014. Players like Mario Williams, Aaron Williams, Nigel Bradham, Searcy, and now Gilmore are gone. Players like Kyle and Graham much older and less effective. Neither Marcel or Hughes played well last year. Offense peaked in 2015. TT was making less than 3 million. We had a healthy Percy Harvin, Roberts Woods. Sammy Watkins has his best year and has been very injured since then. Goodwin, Hogan also now gone as well as Woods. They also had a promising Seantrel Henderson who has never been the same since that year as well. TT, in order to keep him, gets a massive raise and that will force even more losses in free agency and lack of ability to sign players to make up for who is leaving. The 9, 8, 7 analysis? As Bill Parcells has said in the NFL, you are what your record says. Anything else is fanspeak trying to pretend greatness is around the corner. Edited March 3, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Where did I say expansion team? If you are going to put words in my mouth you need to explain what you mean. My main point is that yes, Rex ruined the defense but what many fans missed is that this team got older and less talented too. Defense peaked in 2014. Players like Mario Williams, Aaron Williams, Nigel Bradham, Searcy, and now Gilmore are gone. Players like Kyle and Graham much older and less effective. Neither Marcel or Hughes played well last year. Offense peaked in 2015. TT was making less than 3 million. We had a healthy Percy Harvin, Roberts Woods. Sammy Watkins has his best year and has been very injured since then. Goodwin, Hogan also now gone as well as Woods. They also has a promising Seantrel Henderson who has never been the same since that year as well. TT, in order to keep him, gets a massive raise and that will force even more losses in free agency and lack of ability to sign players to make up for who is leaving. The 9, 8, 7 analysis? As Bill Parcells has said in the NFL, you are what your record says. Anything else is fanspeak trying to pretend greatness is around the corner. I took you calling us talentless and saying "rebuild" as advocating blowing it up. Now that I see that IYHO the lack of a healthy Percy Harvin is the first on your list of talent we lost on offense, I'm not sure what you're advocating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Spot on. Tyrod is who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I took you calling us talentless and saying "rebuild" as advocating blowing it up. Now that I see that IYHO the lack of a healthy Percy Harvin is the first on your list of talent we lost on offense, I'm not sure what you're advocating. All NFL teams have talent. But the Bills talent level is closer to Cleveland than New England. You can see it watching the games. We are closer to the bottom of the NFL than the top. And our team's defense peaked in 2014 and offense peaked in 2015. The Bills have NO WR's right now other than a gimpy Watkins who just had another foot surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_Bills Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I actually respect Cosell's opinion But.....if I understand what he is saying - Tyrod is a starting qb but not a franchise qb (we all knew that) - The REPLACEMENT for Tyrod is not in this draft soooooo what are the bills supposed to do according to Cossel Zactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Zactly. I think it's rather obvious. Bills have to do what they have never done in 20 years. Draft and develop their own QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 All NFL teams have talent. But the Bills talent level is closer to Cleveland than New England. You can see it watching the games. We are closer to the bottom of the NFL than the top. And our team's defense peaked in 2014 and offense peaked in 2015. The Bills have NO WR's right now other than a gimpy Watkins who just had another foot surgery. You are right. You got me. Without blowing the whole thing up it will be impossible to reproduce Percy Harvin's 2014 production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 While I'm not a big TT fan, who out there is better? IMO, none if the draft eligibles are ready to start, and the FA QBs available are nothing to write home about, so what's the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_Bills Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think it's rather obvious. Bills have to do what they have never done in 20 years. Draft and develop their own QB. I don't disagree, but unless you're convinced Cardale is the answer I don't see why we should jettison a competent QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 You are right. You got me. Without blowing the whole thing up it will be impossible to reproduce Percy Harvin's 2014 production. You are missing the big picture. The 2015 Bills offense was the peak. We saw it when for a brief moment when Watkins, Woods, Clay, and Harvin were all on the field. The Bills now have only an injured Watkins. And if they pay Tyrod they cannot replace their WR's in free agency. Woods, Hogan, also gone. While I'm not a big TT fan, who out there is better? IMO, none if the draft eligibles are ready to start, and the FA QBs available are nothing to write home about, so what's the answer? If the question is who is the best we can put on the field to start the season you are asking the wrong question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The question is not "Tyrod or rebuild." The question is "does Tyrod give me a better chance to win than the alternatives?" I see no reason to think that he does. Kaepernick's first two years playing were in the same Greg Roman system and he had less experience than Tyrod, yet Kaepernick did better in terms of both stats and wins and losses. Foles' best season was better than Tyrod's best season and he has also been to the playoffs. These alternatives are perfectly comparable to Tyrod and will come with less investment, making the decision to move on from Tyrod a pretty simple one in my book. Tyrod is replacement-level so no need for the long term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If the Bears do let Cutler go I would think they keep Hoyer as there bridge. Josh McCown was offered a coaching job when released by the Browns He would be a ok bridge and mentor here for a big cap saving, jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 thats because if u tank u are guaranteed to win the superbowl in a couple years, cant believe everyone doesnt know that by now...Exactly look at all the colts rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRightRevenge Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 All NFL teams have talent. But the Bills talent level is closer to Cleveland than New England. You can see it watching the games. We are closer to the bottom of the NFL than the top. And our team's defense peaked in 2014 and offense peaked in 2015. The Bills have NO WR's right now other than a gimpy Watkins who just had another foot surgery. Granted significantly less post count than the two debating this topic ... but WOOAHHH on putting us closer to Cleveland talent wise .... On the offensive side .. #1 rushing offense in the league with Shady and Gilleslee ... the OL rank is 11th in the article below (NE is 10 and Cleveland is 16 which surprised me) ... Top 10 in points per game based on 2016 stats and Cleveland was #31 .... Defense was not great as we all know, but that's a function of Rex debacle and Marcel's stupidity ... but please ... do not put us in the same sentence as Cleveland. However on the Tyrod Topic associated with this thread .... if you can't pull the game out in the fourth quarter and lead the team to victory ... you keep searching and spend your money elsewhere ... you pay that kind of money for incremental Wins ... that hasn't occurred. 11. Buffalo Bills (10)Top overall grade: LG Richie Incognito, 87.2 (No. 5) Top pass-blocking grade: LG Richie Incognito, 88.8 (tied for No. 7) Top run-blocking grade: LG Richie Incognito, 84.0 (tied for No. 7) If Buffalo could find an answer to their right tackle issue, this line would vault up the rankings in an instant. Jordan Mills surrendered eight sacks and 57 total QB pressures over 596 pass-blocking snaps this season, fourth-most of any tackle in the game. The play of RG John Miller inside of Mills didn’t help much when it comes to pass blocking, either, giving the Bills a real issue on the right side of the line. Miller allowed four sacks and 33 total QB pressures, but did at least offset that with some strong run blocking. The left side of the line was far better, with LT Cordy Glenn allowing only one sack in 397 pass-blocking snaps before injury sidelined him, and Cyrus Kouandjio surrendering only one sack as his replacement. LG Richie Incognito was again the best player on this line, run blocking and pass blocking well over the year, backing up his strong performance from a season ago with another excellent campaign. https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I actually respect Cosell's opinion But.....if I understand what he is saying - Tyrod is a starting qb but not a franchise qb (we all knew that) - The REPLACEMENT for Tyrod is not in this draft soooooo what are the bills supposed to do according to Cossel If you simply claim every single QB that come along inst a franchise QB, you'll be right way more than you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Granted significantly less post count than the two debating this topic ... but WOOAHHH on putting us closer to Cleveland talent wise .... On the offensive side .. #1 rushing offense in the league with Shady and Gilleslee ... the OL rank is 11th in the article below (NE is 10 and Cleveland is 16 which surprised me) ... Top 10 in points per game based on 2016 stats and Cleveland was #31 .... Defense was not great as we all know, but that's a function of Rex debacle and Marcel's stupidity ... but please ... do not put us in the same sentence as Cleveland. However on the Tyrod Topic associated with this thread .... if you can't pull the game out in the fourth quarter and lead the team to victory ... you keep searching and spend your money elsewhere ... you pay that kind of money for incremental Wins ... that hasn't occurred.11. Buffalo Bills (10)Top overall grade: LG Richie Incognito, 87.2 (No. 5) Top pass-blocking grade: LG Richie Incognito, 88.8 (tied for No. 7) Top run-blocking grade: LG Richie Incognito, 84.0 (tied for No. 7) If Buffalo could find an answer to their right tackle issue, this line would vault up the rankings in an instant. Jordan Mills surrendered eight sacks and 57 total QB pressures over 596 pass-blocking snaps this season, fourth-most of any tackle in the game. The play of RG John Miller inside of Mills didn’t help much when it comes to pass blocking, either, giving the Bills a real issue on the right side of the line. Miller allowed four sacks and 33 total QB pressures, but did at least offset that with some strong run blocking. The left side of the line was far better, with LT Cordy Glenn allowing only one sack in 397 pass-blocking snaps before injury sidelined him, and Cyrus Kouandjio surrendering only one sack as his replacement. LG Richie Incognito was again the best player on this line, run blocking and pass blocking well over the year, backing up his strong performance from a season ago with another excellent campaign. https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season/ I can't do this off memory but I do remember Cleveland having a very good offensive line a few years ago. And I will say this, right now our roster looks a lot better to the casual fan but after we lose more in free agency and have the draft Buffalo and Cleveland will be much closer. If Bills try to "go for it" by paying mediocre players $$$$ Cleveland passes us as soon as next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRightRevenge Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I can't do this off memory but I do remember Cleveland having a very good offensive line a few years ago. And I will say this, right now our roster looks a lot better to the casual fan but after we lose more in free agency and have the draft Buffalo and Cleveland will be much closer. If Bills try to "go for it" by paying mediocre players $$$$ Cleveland passes us as soon as next year. Don't mistake post count for "casual fan" ... I put out hard stats and you still want Cleveland's roster? I believe I'm landing on your stance on Tyrod .. my issue is the comparison to Cleveland. I can't do this off memory but I do remember Cleveland having a very good offensive line a few years ago. And I will say this, right now our roster looks a lot better to the casual fan but after we lose more in free agency and have the draft Buffalo and Cleveland will be much closer. If Bills try to "go for it" by paying mediocre players $$$$ Cleveland passes us as soon as next year. Plus .. granted they overhauled the GM position ... but Cleveland draft pedigree vs. Buffalo ... can you say Manziel .. can you say Pitt DB Justin Gilbert in top 10 .. Not a rex fan ... but I'll take an injured Shaq and Ragland over those bums. Trent Richardson / Brandon Weedon both 1st rounders in 2012. Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Don't mistake post count for "casual fan" ... I put out hard stats and you still want Cleveland's roster? I believe I'm landing on your stance on Tyrod .. my issue is the comparison to Cleveland. Plus .. granted they overhauled the GM position ... but Cleveland draft pedigree vs. Buffalo ... can you say Manziel .. can you say Pitt DB Justin Gilbert in top 10 .. Not a rex fan ... but I'll take an injured Shaq and Ragland over those bums. Trent Richardson / Brandon Weedon both 1st rounders in 2012. Please I wasn't saying you were a casual fan, my point is that most people think of Cleveland as a train wreck but don't realize how much better they will be very soon. They had a very good draft last year and this year they get 2 drafts with all their picks in a LOADED draft. They will make up talent quickly. They also have the most cap space they can use now or next year to sign players. Bills have Cleveland in their rear view mirror for today but if we pay Tyrod 30-40 million and have another bad draft they can pass us as soon as next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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