Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 27 mil in guareneteed money puts him @ 15th ish in the league. Absolutely there are teams out there that will consider him worth top 15 money. That's lump sum. Now consider that it's a five year deal, that works out to about 24th in guaranteed dollars per season. He's been invited to the probowl 2/2 years as a starter. He will get his 30 mil somewhere It's $27.5 mil guaranteed if we keep him for 1 year. That's higher than top 15ish. As soon as the second year starts his guaranteed money goes up to $40.5 mil on the 5 year contract.. Edited February 11, 2017 by Tuco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) It's $27.5 mil guaranteed if we keep him for 1 year. That's higher than top 15ish. As soon as the second year starts his guaranteed money goes up to $40.5 mil on the 5 year contract.. They would eat a bunch on the 2018 cap if they did that. They would have a big dead cap hit in year 2 $15.65M ($12.4M option bonus and $3.25M of his guaranteed salary in 2018). Edited February 11, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Maybe the transition tag would be more palatable since he'd be able to negotiate with other teams and from the Bills perspective it's only $19m. But it still buys the Bills insurance since they'd be able to match any deal and gets them out from Taylor's original deal. Neither tag is an option. The tags are for players who will become free agents when their contracts expire on March 9th. TT is under contract through 2021 unless the Bills release him. You can't cut a player and then put the tag on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Neither tag is an option. The tags are for players who will become free agents when their contracts expire on March 9th. TT is under contract through 2021 unless the Bills release him. You can't cut a player and then put the tag on him. Exactly, the long and the short of it is that he is going to get $30.75M guaranteed or he is going to be a FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 They would eat a bunch on the 2018 cap if they did that. They would have a big dead cap hit in year 2 $15.65M ($12.4M option bonus and $3.25M of his guaranteed salary in 2018). No I was talking about guaranteed money to the other poster who was claiming he's only guaranteed $27 mil on a 5 year deal. But that's not true. As soon as the league year starts in 2018 TT's entire 2018 salary becomes guaranteed. That means it's a $27.5 mil guarantee if we only keep him one year. If we keep him for 2+ years as everyone suggests, it's a $40.5 million guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Im saying I don't think that they are ALLOWED to tag him (for the reasons above). The Bills won't be allowed to scale back the guaranteed money. They have guaranteed him $30.75M. They have to either pay that to him or let him hit FA. I think that 3 years $45M with about $30M guaranteed is where he ends up. I hear what you're saying but if Bills decline the option, the $30m guaranteed never existed and he's in the same boat as the 20+ other free agents the Bills are able to use a franchise or transition tag on. I would be surprised if Bills aren't able to use a tag on him because I doubt the NFL and NFLPA foresaw a screwed up scenario like the one the Bills have put themselves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 That is the interesting part. The only thing on that is that cap hit would prevent you from bringing back Gilmore in all likelihood. As it stands now, the Bills can have both. Yeah it was reasonable to anticipate that both would improve their stocks this year and if even one of them had it would have looked like an astute move by the Bills. Taylor's production leveled off. I actually think he improved at least marginally as a QB but without Sammy the deep game was taken away and his ypa dropped from 8 to 6.9 and defensive adjustments to him also played an underrated role in tamping his stats. He didn't turn into a franchise QB but the glass half full viewpoint would be that he maintained at least mid-league effectiveness as a QB and even more as a facilitator of offense.......despite a lack of quality targets and the best defensive adjustments the league could throw at him. Unfortunately Gilmore didn't step his game up either. He was the same Gilmore. He slumped early, then played tremendously in coverage after the media got on his asss following the second NE game...... but his horrific tackling form/effort.....the main reason he hasn't played a full 16 game schedule since his rookie year.......was still very concerning. He's had this same season in years past.......I believe it was his second season he was criticized for sloppy coverage work and costing the Bills a game with a terrible tackling effort........then finished the season playing at a pro bowl level. It could be very detrimental to lose him in the short term, but it's very risky at this point to pay $13M-$15M per on a 6 year type deal or something equivalent to what a desperate team would pay in FA. If he's going to give you 12-13 healthy games and play well in only 7-8 of them.......then he's not worth a long term deal. Having the franchise at their disposal if they want to keep him is VERY good. Ideal franchise tag candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Neither tag is an option. The tags are for players who will become free agents when their contracts expire on March 9th. TT is under contract through 2021 unless the Bills release him. You can't cut a player and then put the tag on him. Declining an option is different than cutting him. Not sure how NFL views it though for free agency purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 No I was talking about guaranteed money to the other poster who was claiming he's only guaranteed $27 mil on a 5 year deal. But that's not true. As soon as the league year starts in 2018 TT's entire 2018 salary becomes guaranteed. That means it's a $27.5 mil guarantee if we only keep him one year. If we keep him for 2+ years as everyone suggests, it's a $40.5 million guarantee.That's kind of true but it's actually $30.75M because $3.25M of his 2018 salary is guaranteed at the time of the extension too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I hear what you're saying but if Bills decline the option, the $30m guaranteed never existed and he's in the same boat as the 20+ other free agents the Bills are able to use a franchise or transition tag on. I would be surprised if Bills aren't able to use a tag on him because I doubt the NFL and NFLPA foresaw a screwed up scenario like the one the Bills have put themselves in. The tags have to be applied well in advance of FA. Usually approximately 2 weeks prior. You can't tag a player already under contract and his contract doesn't "expire" until a few days before FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I hear what you're saying but if Bills decline the option, the $30m guaranteed never existed and he's in the same boat as the 20+ other free agents the Bills are able to use a franchise or transition tag on. I would be surprised if Bills aren't able to use a tag on him because I doubt the NFL and NFLPA foresaw a screwed up scenario like the one the Bills have put themselves in.It's an option to his current contract though. They either have to release him or continue on. It isn't a new contract (if that makes sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The tags have to be applied well in advance of FA. Usually approximately 2 weeks prior. You can't tag a player already under contract and his contract doesn't "expire" until a few days before FA. Bills could decline the option right now if they wanted to. Technically Taylor is not under contract until Bills exercise the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I hear what you're saying but if Bills decline the option, the $30m guaranteed never existed and he's in the same boat as the 20+ other free agents the Bills are able to use a franchise or transition tag on. I would be surprised if Bills aren't able to use a tag on him because I doubt the NFL and NFLPA foresaw a screwed up scenario like the one the Bills have put themselves in. The franchise tag is only good for players whose contracts expire on March 9th. And it has to be applied to a player before March 1st. TT's contract doesn't expire on March 8th. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't expire on March 11th either - regardless of whether they pick up the option. The option in Taylor's contract isn't an option for the Bills to extend his contract. His contract runs through 2021. The option is whether the Bills decide to either pay TT's guaranteed $27.5 mil entirely as 2017 salary or to convert $15.5 million of that salary into a signing bonus that can be prorated. The other option the Bills have is to release (cut) Taylor before the guarantee kicks in (March 11th). If they do that, TT immediately becomes an unrestricted free agent - not a pending free agent whose contract is set to run out. And they all knew exactly what they were doing. Lots of players have large option bonuses due in the first couple days of the league year. This is nothing new. It's negotiated that way by the players in order to force a team into deciding whether to keep them or cut them loose without making the player wait until July or August to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 It has nothing to do with year 1 money and everything to do with guaranteed dollars. He is currently guaranteed $30.75M if they pick up the deal. He will get that on the open market. The Bills and TT's people both know that. The cap hit currently is $15.9M in 2017 and $16.78M in 2018. The talk between the Bills and Taylor's people will be on changing the structure to alter the cap hit but not the guaranteed dollars. The $27.5M number is really irrelevant in the conversation. FWIW, he almost certainly gets that cash next year because a signing bonus or an option bonus is paid out immediately. The cap hit is what is spread out. A roster bonus is also paid out immediately but it hits in a particular cap year. I repeat my sentiment, absolutely no way Tyrod gets $27.5M in cash next year. Any team that evaluates Tyrod's game and sees that the Bills, led by Tyrod, have ranked right near the bottom in passing 2 straight years isn't forking over big time $$$. This extension, as someone else stated already, was totally assinine on the Bills part. They gave Tyrod a free $6.9M last year and then front loaded the contract with a hige amount of cash required in Year 1. The alternative of standing pat and having the option of the franchise tag this year was a much cheaper and smarter option. The Bills lost all of the leverage they had and they had a lot of leverage before that dumb extension. The only way this extension was ever going to be a good one for the Bills was if he saw at least 4 years of the deal because the cash lightens up in years 2, 3 and 4, which makes the overall deal more palatable. Unfortunately, he's not a very good QB, so the Bills will never see years 4 or 5 of the deal because they would be committing to almost certain mediocrity, exactly where they've been for almost 20 years. Time to cut bait and roll the dice with someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Bills could decline the option right now if they wanted to. Technically Taylor is not under contract until Bills exercise the option. That is not true at all. He is under contract. The option isn't an option to extend his contract - a lot of people think it is, but it isn't. Tyrod Taylor's contract calls for him to make $27.5 mil in 2017. That money becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster on March 11th. The option everyone refers to is the option to take $15.5 million of that salary and convert it into a proratable signing bonus. It's a misnomer when people say "pick up the option" to think that means not picking up the option means cutting him. They are 2 different things. What people really mean is the Bills have to decide whether to cut Taylor or keep him before March 11th when it all becomes guaranteed, and if they keep him they have the option to convert a large chunk of it into a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Ok. Got it. If the option was on the the remaining 4 years of contract, Bills could've declined option and used tag. But option is actually on how to treat the $15m bonus, so Bills actually have to cut him to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Ok. Got it. If the option was on the the remaining 4 years of contract, Bills could've declined option and used tag. But option is actually on how to treat the $15m bonus, so Bills actually have to cut him to get rid of him. Right. They either keep him beyond March 11th and choose how to apply his guaranteed money (exercise the option) or they cut him before March 11th to avoid paying any guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) I repeat my sentiment, absolutely no way Tyrod gets $27.5M in cash next year. Any team that evaluates Tyrod's game and sees that the Bills, led by Tyrod, have ranked right near the bottom in passing 2 straight years isn't forking over big time $$$. This extension, as someone else stated already, was totally assinine on the Bills part. They gave Tyrod a free $6.9M last year and then front loaded the contract with a hige amount of cash required in Year 1. The alternative of standing pat and having the option of the franchise tag this year was a much cheaper and smarter option. The Bills lost all of the leverage they had and they had a lot of leverage before that dumb extension. The only way this extension was ever going to be a good one for the Bills was if he saw at least 4 years of the deal because the cash lightens up in years 2, 3 and 4, which makes the overall deal more palatable. Unfortunately, he's not a very good QB, so the Bills will never see years 4 or 5 of the deal because they would be committing to almost certain mediocrity, exactly where they've been for almost 20 years. Time to cut bait and roll the dice with someone else. If he signs a $20M signing bonus it is spread throughout the contract but he gets that money now. He will get $27.5M this year. By comparison Brock Osweiler got $37M. TT's cap hit won't be $27.5M but it as never going to be. There is a big difference between cash and cap hit. The guaranteed money is what he is concerned about. He has $30.75M guaranteed moving forward if the Bills keep him. He will hit FA otherwise (and get that elsewhere). That is not true at all. He is under contract. The option isn't an option to extend his contract - a lot of people think it is, but it isn't. Tyrod Taylor's contract calls for him to make $27.5 mil in 2017. That money becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster on March 11th. The option everyone refers to is the option to take $15.5 million of that salary and convert it into a proratable signing bonus. It's a misnomer when people say "pick up the option" to think that means not picking up the option means cutting him. They are 2 different things. What people really mean is the Bills have to decide whether to cut Taylor or keep him before March 11th when it all becomes guaranteed, and if they keep him they have the option to convert a large chunk of it into a bonus. Nice job explaining this Tuco, there seems to be a good deal of confusion. I thought about starting a thread with the cap implications of Tyrod's contract but figured it would turn into "keep him" vs. "don't keep him." People need to understand it though when formulating their opinions (it is the most important part). Edited February 11, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 So it sounds like Tyrod isn't gonna take less than $30m guaranteed. Give him a 2 year $30m contract fully guaranteed and add some voidable bs in that last 2 years so his agent can puff his chest and the Bills can spread the cap hit over 4 years. Worst case you have a $15m per year backup for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 His present contract for 2 years is $40M guaranteed 2017 Option: $15.5M Option Bonus & $12M base salary & $3.25M of his 2018 salary fully guarantee on 3/11/2017 Remaining $9.75M of 2018 salary becomes fully guaranteed on the 3rd league day of 2018 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor-7899/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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