Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, BullBuchanan said: Jesus christ. Did you hit your head on something? I've defined it in every post I've made. You haven't. You've shown over and over you don't understand what it is. It's like those who come down here claiming "I used to be a republican but not now" who never were. Watch: 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: I don't believe you "fight" for jobs by trying to prevent others from taking them. What? This is nonsense. "You don't fight for a first down by going through tackles, you fight for a first down by letting them tackle you and giving them the ball so they have a first down. " 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: We should provide some subsidies to make sure they continue to be employed and also use the bulk of that to train them on wind and solar farm operation" I would be all the way in. Theres a shock. Proposing subsidies for people to be underemployed. Who pays? The people do -- the same people who are being gutted economically by your mentality are also asked to carry the burden of subsidizing corporations moving the work force off shore. 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Instead what I get is a bunch "Dey took er jerhbs!" And that's useless. It helps no one.Those jobs are still going away and those people are just going to be more behind when they do. No one is just saying that. I'm pointing to WHY those jobs went away. It was because of a push for globalism by our own politicians and business leaders -- at the expense of the country, not for its benefit. You are okay with this because you "believe in Liberty" while proving you do not. 7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: The EU has found a largely successful solution that still needs work, but has kept their economies heavily viable in a way they otherwise would not be. The EU??? An organization that disenfranchises the continent is your ideal??? Again, this is something one who understands and believes in Liberty would never say. The EU is anti Liberty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You haven't. You've shown over and over you don't understand what it is. It's like those who come down here claiming "I used to be a republican but not now" who never were. Watch: What? This is nonsense. "You don't fight for a first down by going through tackles, you fight for a first down by letting them tackle you and giving them the ball so they have a first down. " Theres a shock. Proposing subsidies for people to be underemployed. Who pays? The people do -- the same people who are being gutted economically by your mentality are also asked to carry the burden of subsidizing corporations moving the work force off shore. No one is just saying that. I'm pointing to WHY those jobs went away. It was because of a push for globalism by our own politicians and business leaders -- at the expense of the country, not for its benefit. You are okay with this because you "believe in Liberty" while proving you do not. We've reached the limits of your comprehension regarding this topic. You either can't or won't read correctly. You must have heard about globalism recently and were just waiting for a place to name drop it, because it has no bearing on this conversation. You sound like the kind of person that's shocked when they need a new roof. Plan for the future, guy. If you aren't taking preventative steps for the future you're behind. Edited June 7, 2019 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, McGee Return TD said: Just curious - I have noticed in your conversations about sovereignty the only reason you ever bring up is keeping people in and out of the country. ... In a topic on immigration/trafficking. Borders are important for dozens and dozens of reasons. As is national soverignty. Can't have one without the other. Just now, BullBuchanan said: We've reached the limits of your comprehension regarding this topic. You either can't or won't read correctly. You must have heard about globalism recently and were just waiting for a place to name drop it, because it has no bearing on this conversation. You sound like the kind of person that's shocked when they need a new roof. Plan for the future, guy. If you aren't taking preventative steps for the future you're behind. It does. You just brought up the EU and think it doesn't involve globalism? You're uninformed. Deeply uninformed. The EU is an unaccountable Union whom the people of Europe have no direct representation or recourse against. The EU is the antithesis of Liberty. And now you'll run away because you've been exposed as being so deeply uniformed. It'd just be more honest if you said what you truly were: a socialist. Or you could try to explain to me how someone who values Liberty idealizes the EU. I'll wait. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I'll say it again, you have the patience of a saint. 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: It stems from a genuine desire to understand another's point of view through conversation. That requires honesty though, which Bull may be but he's yet to demonstrate it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It stems from a genuine desire to understand another's point of view through conversation. That requires honesty though, which Bull may be but he's yet to demonstrate it. Bull is just taking the piss on here today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It stems from a genuine desire to understand another's point of view through conversation. That requires honesty though, which Bull may be but he's yet to demonstrate it. Sometimes I think it would be more productive for you to bang your head against the wall. You're a good guy though, engaging the er ummm misinformed, I'll give you that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Sometimes I think it would be more productive for you to bang your head against the wall. You're a good guy though, engaging the er ummm misinformed, I'll give you that. Living and working in Hollywood has trained me for just these sorts of encounters. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Those jobs are going to India. While everyone's been worried about losing their jobs to fruit pickers, landscapers, and house cleaners, $150K jobs that buy homes, cars, restaurant trips and vacations are going bye-bye. Add in the fact that a lot of those now out of work programmers have 6 figures in student loan debt and the real problems should become a lot more clear. I am not so sure about this. If you are an out of work programmer, you are a not a programmer, you are a hack. But i do agree with plenty of your points..not all, but plenty 12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Sometimes I think it would be more productive for you to bang your head against the wall. You're a good guy though, engaging the er ummm misinformed, I'll give you that. Not quite sure where the disconnect was in that conversation with @Deranged Rhino. I am the opposite of a socialist, but I too agree that fighting for jobs in dying industries is the very definition of socialism..if you to dumb to get skills that are needed or too lazy , thats on you, not the job of the government. But I also agree with DR on the EU...except i think he mentioned something about privacy..and that is much stronger in the EU than it is in the states. Anyways, think I am not understanding DRs point totally. BTW, i am totally fine with the jobs number going down, and not because I want Trump to fail. I think we are are full employment..inflation scares the hell of me right now... Edited June 7, 2019 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: I am not so sure about this. If you are an out of work programmer, you are a not a programmer, you are a hack. And I’m agreeing with Plenz. If anything all I’ve seen is a reversal of off-shoring these types of jobs as organizations realize that they’re losing more in efficiency and progress than any salary savings. Now or if you want to discuss offshore firms abusing the visa process, that’s a whole different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: I am the opposite of a socialist, but I too agree that fighting for jobs in dying industries is the very definition of socialism.. The socialist comment is the end result of his posts today: he began by attacking religion, casting anyone who disagrees as an enemy looking to inflict pain and suffering on others, dismissing borders and national soverignty, and then lauding the EU as the example of a system that gets it right... All the while proclaiming to care above all else about Liberty. Bull is full of his namesake based on these opinions. The offshoring began not because industries were dying but because of a combination of a number of factors, chief among them a desire to placate the globalist world order by evening the playing field with China and others. This was done not to protect America or its interests but to serve the pocket book of bought and paid for globalists in our congress the past several decades. Fighting to keep jobs in the states, especially manufacturing (which is key to any semblance of national defense let alone sustainability) is not advocating socialism. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: I am not so sure about this. If you are an out of work programmer, you are a not a programmer, you are a hack. But i do agree with plenty of your points..not all, but plenty Not quite sure where the disconnect was in that conversation with @Deranged Rhino. I am the opposite of a socialist, but I too agree that fighting for jobs in dying industries is the very definition of socialism..if you to dumb to get skills that are needed or too lazy , thats on you, not the job of the government. But I also agree with DR on the EU...except i think he mentioned something about privacy..and that is much stronger in the EU than it is in the states. Anyways, think I am not understanding DRs point totally. I am not an economist, but some of the stuff that was allowed to happen the last 50 years with jobs is somewhat a national security issue. Steel mills, rare earth refinery, rubber plants, etc. We should have at least one of XYZ plants simply to make certain we as a nation are not completely dependent on a foreign country (friend or foe) for that XYZ in case of war, trade war, etc. IOW, these "dying industries" may still be productive and necessary, but not currently producing in the United States (that green-stupidity scam of the last 20 years put a real dent in some of our natural resource refineries, etc) due to economics (political or bottom line). While I do not want the government involved in any of those plants and productions (because big government is bad, IMO), I do think tax incentives could make those industries lucrative, and make us safer as a country, and less at the mercy to foreign bodies. Note, out of work programmers are called freelancers. They can find ad hoc work, or produce a new product independently so Google will buy it to stifle competition, anywhere. The EU of the last 15 years is the last place I would want the United States to emulate. Allowing uneducated, third world fanatics to come over and take over your country simply so you can have a younger base of people to pay for the older citizen's socialist welfare payments in their old age, has proven more problematic than a solution. They have cost more than they have produced. So much for that plan. The privacy you are speaking of is basically a pop-up (EU cookie consent) to tell the people in the EU that they are being tracked. Click no, and you don't see the content. Hint: everyone clicks "yes". I didn't read through the entire discussion above. These thoughts are just my response to your response and have no bearing on what was discussed prior. ? Edited June 7, 2019 by Buffalo_Gal 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: The socialist comment is the end result of his posts today: he began by attacking religion, casting anyone who disagrees as an enemy looking to inflict pain and suffering on others, dismissing borders and national soverignty, and then lauding the EU as the example of a system that gets it right... All the while proclaiming to care above all else about Liberty. Bull is full of his namesake based on these opinions. The offshoring began not because industries were dying but because of a combination of a number of factors, chief among them a desire to placate the globalist world order by evening the playing field with China and others. This was done not to protect America or its interests but to serve the pocket book of bought and paid for globalists in our congress the past several decades. Fighting to keep jobs in the states, especially manufacturing (which is key to any semblance of national defense let alone sustainability) is not advocating socialism. I did not read the whole thing, so apologise for that. But not quite sure I understand your reasoning on offshoring...I think it was a natural evolution of education and cheap labor. I am sure there was more to it than that( tax breaks etc), but that is the fundamental reason that companies moved so much IP work offshore. The argument for protecting manufacturing is a good one...certainly understand your thoughts on national defense issue, but what will be the needed skills in the manufacturing sector when 95% of it is done via 3D printing? If the focus is only on protecting current jobs and not seeing what skills are needed in the future, will we not find ourselves in the same spot as the IP work above??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I did not read the whole thing, so apologise for that. But not quite sure I understand your reasoning on offshoring...I think it was a natural evolution of education and cheap labor. I am sure there was more to it than that( tax breaks etc), but that is the fundamental reason that companies moved so much IP work offshore. The argument for protecting manufacturing is a good one...certainly understand your thoughts on national defense issue, but what will be the needed skills in the manufacturing sector when 95% of it is done via 3D printing? If the focus is only on protecting current jobs and not seeing what skills are needed in the future, will we not find ourselves in the same spot as the IP work above??? I am in now way advocating protecting old jobs while not blazing ahead in the future. I'm suggesting there's plenty of room in a country this large and prosperous for both. There are numerous factors which led to offshoring. Some natural economic factors - some less so. Admitting China to the WTO under the Clinton administration was the first big mistake made on the alter of globalism -- allowing China to expand and grow at the expense of our own nation. That's even worse when you consider how much China paid the clintons (and other politicians) to grease the skids, and even worse when you factor in China's barbaric government and human rights record which were ongoing while that deal was put together (and still is). The goal by many has been to cripple the us from within. To win the next war before a shot is fired -- and big businesses (transnational companies), and the globalists in office and in positions of power in the west worked together to make that happen in the name of globalism. The EU being one of the worst examples of this system - completely undemocratic, no direct representation for the people, and a board of unelected bureaucrats who can overrule the laws of individual nations within the union. Thats not a Liberty based system. It's a fascist wet dream. Which is why Bull holding it up as a sterling example of what we should be striving for reveals either his true intentions or his ignorance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I am not an economist, but some of the stuff that was allowed to happen the last 50 years with jobs is somewhat a national security issue. Steel mills, rare earth refinery, rubber plants, etc. We should have at least one of XYZ plants simply to make certain we as a nation are not completely dependent on a foreign country (friend or foe) for that XYZ in case of war, trade war, etc. IOW, these "dying industries" may still be productive and necessary, but not currently producing in the United States (that green-stupidity scam of the last 20 years put a real dent in some of our natural resource refineries, etc) due to economics (political or bottom line). While I do not want the government involved in any of those plants and productions (because big government is bad, IMO), I do think tax incentives could make those industries lucrative, and make us safer as a country, and less at the mercy to foreign bodies. Note, out of work programmers are called freelancers. They can find ad hoc work, or produce a new product independently so Google will buy it to stifle competition, anywhere. The EU of the last 15 years is the last place I would want the United States to emulate. Allowing uneducated, third world fanatics to come over and take over your country simply so you can have a younger base of people to pay for the older citizen's socialist welfare payments in their old age, has proven more problematic than a solution. They have cost more than they have produced. So much for that plan. The privacy you are speaking of is basically a pop-up (EU cookie consent) to tell the people in the EU that they are being tracked. Click no, and you don't see the content. Hint: everyone clicks "yes". I didn't read through the entire discussion above. These thoughts are just my response to your response and have no bearing on what was discussed prior. ? I believe the privacy laws are much , much more than a simple pop up..requirements for anonymized data etc. Also, the Patriot Act leaves so much open to the US Government..so much so that running any SaaS company really requires you to have an EU data center if you want any international customers..yes even Canadian firms. as the privacy laws are much stricter outside the US. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 49 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It stems from a genuine desire to understand another's point of view through conversation. excessive alcohol consumption That requires honesty though, which Bull may be but he's yet to demonstrate it. FTFY. I know my desire to understand some of the points of views here has diminished considerably since I quit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I believe the privacy laws are much , much more than a simple pop up..requirements for anonymized data etc. Also, the Patriot Act leaves so much open to the US Government..so much so that running any SaaS company really requires you to have an EU data center if you want any international customers..yes even Canadian firms. as the privacy laws are much stricter outside the US. For commercial businesses. Not intelligence services. Thats an an important distinction to note. Five Eyes has much more legal cover to spy on the citizens of the continent than the NSA or CIA have domestically even w the patriot act (of which I'm no fan as you know). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: For commercial businesses. Not intelligence services. Thats an an important distinction to note. ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: ?????? Added a paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: I believe the privacy laws are much , much more than a simple pop up..requirements for anonymized data etc. Also, the Patriot Act leaves so much open to the US Government..so much so that running any SaaS company really requires you to have an EU data center if you want any international customers..yes even Canadian firms. as the privacy laws are much stricter outside the US. You are correct (in regards to selling). I know a lot of people that stopped selling anything directly in the EU due to the stricter privacy concerns implemented last year (or was it 2016?). Edited June 7, 2019 by Buffalo_Gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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