Wayne Arnold Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Seven teams worse. Keep reaching for the stars, baby! We're not the worst!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fully agree - and the other thing here is that if you draft a QB in the first (or second) round, you are missing the opportunity to get a high impact player at another position. Would you rather have: (a) TT plus a top-ten pick at a position of need that is much less likely to be a bust; or (b) a hit-or-miss "3rd or 4th best QB in a mediocre QB class"? This is a no-brainer to me..... Taylor is gone. So get your QB in this class find him. Other teams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Taylor is gone. So get your QB in this class find him. Other teams do. Which team with an elite quarterback dumped their starter before the draft, leaving themselves in a desperate situation? Patriots/Brady - Nope, they had Bledsoe Steelers/Roethlisberger - Nope, they kept Tommy Maddox Falcons/Ryan - Nope, they re-signed Joey Harrington before the draft Packers/Rodgers - Nope, they had Favre Thinking you have to dump your quarterback in order to draft one is mind-numbingly stupid. And what's worse - THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE THIS MISTAKE ONCE BEFORE. And they're about to do it again. It absolutely blows my mind. Edited January 19, 2017 by Wayne Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Which team with an elite quarterback dumped their starter before the draft, leaving themselves in a desperate situation? Patriots/Brady - Nope, they had Bledsoe Steelers/Roethlisberger - Nope, they kept Tommy Maddox Falcons/Ryan - Nope, they re-signed Joey Harrington before the draft Packers/Rodgers - Nope, they had Favre Thinking you have to dump your quarterback in order to draft one is mind-numbingly stupid. And what's worse - THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE THIS MISTAKE ONCE BEFORE. And they're about to do it again. It absolutely blows my mind. Thread says TT moves on where your QB. The same place EVERY team finds a franchise QB the draft. Unless you want to try and argue Franchise QBs are found elsewhere Edited January 19, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Does the QB play a roll in 3 and out and TOP? Cant cherry pick what unit stats to apply Right, the rest of the team also has a hand in those three n outs too. All the times our backs didnt get enough yards or the O-Line didnt get enough of a push. You cant blame just the QB everyone is responsible for nwhat happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 True. Once workouts start inmay become more comfortable with Mahomes at 10. I dont want a situation that has happened often with Bills passing on a QB they like because it might be a bit higher than were the see him. Ala Ben. I agree - we need to walk away with this thinking we got our guy. If we have to trade up to get him then do it - but he'd better be freaking good. I don't want to trade up for a guy who has issues like Goff and Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 ZapZapAnd obviously scoring points has nothing to do with QB being bad or not either.Thank Shady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thread says TT moves on where your QB. The same place EVERY team finds a franchise QB the draft. Unless you want to try and argue Franchise QBs are found elsewhere Broncos - Manning Saints - Brees Chiefs - Smith Cardinals - Palmer Texans - Osweiler (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Right, the rest of the team also has a hand in those three n outs too. All the times our backs didnt get enough yards or the O-Line didnt get enough of a push. You cant blame just the QB everyone is responsible for nwhat happens Pointing out cant just Cherry pick the good team stats and give TT credit but ignore bad team stats saying doesnt matter or he isnt to blame Always hated Blam Broncos - Manning Saints - Brees Chiefs - Smith Cardinals - Palmer Texans - Osweiler (lol) Manning never knew was gonna play football again (was a franchise guy before he left) Brees Major Injury - was a franchise guy before he left Palmer - how mich did Raiders give up to het him initially? Was a franchise guy before he left. Brock the LOL is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Brees Major Injury - was a franchise guy before he left Eh - He was good not great. He was so bad that they ended up with the 1 overall pick for 2004. He picked it up for 2 years - but at that point they had to make a choice... They were wrong. He was 1st team all-pro his first year out of San Diego - and won a super bowl in New Orleans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Eh - He was good not great. He was so bad that they ended up with the 1 overall pick for 2004. He picked it up for 2 years - but at that point they had to make a choice... They were wrong. He was 1st team all-pro his first year out of San Diego - and won a super bowl in New Orleans. Enough there to see he was a franchise guy and had a major inj to throwing arm. So again point remains. Where do you find your franchise QB. The draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Enough there to see he was a franchise guy and had a major inj to throwing arm. So again point remains. Where do you find your franchise QB. The draft. Right - But we're in a tough spot NEEDING a QB is all I'm saying. We don't draft high enough to ensure we get our guy, and I'm not sure this is the best draft to get our guy. Gotta take shots, but i don't want to waste high picks on a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Right - But we're in a tough spot NEEDING a QB is all I'm saying. We don't draft high enough to ensure we get our guy, and I'm not sure this is the best draft to get our guy. Gotta take shots, but i don't want to waste high picks on a project. Well i think a vet will also be signed. But again that is just blah. Only way you are every going to get your long term Franchise QB is in the draft. There really isnt any orher way Reality is this team is likely a .500 team no matter who is at QB next year. So why not move on from someone not good enough and start looking toward future Edited January 19, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Not that I want the guy, but Hoyer is a free agent and his statistics are very similar to Talyor's... Taylor - 29 starts, 14-14 record, 62.3% comp, 6257 yards, 37 TDs, 11.8 ypc, 145 ypg, 92.3 rating, 83 sacks, 1 fourthqc, 2 gwd Hoyer - 31 starts, 16-15 record, 59.5% comp, 8608 yards, 44 TDs, 12.1 ypc, 175 ypg, 84.8 rating, 65 sacks, 6 fourthqc, 6 gwd It's funny that Taylor gets so much love from the national media and Hoyer is looked at as a bum. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Not that I want the guy, but Hoyer is a free agent and his statistics are very similar to Talyor's... Taylor - 29 starts, 14-14 record, 62.3% comp, 6257 yards, 37 TDs, 11.8 ypc, 145 ypg, 92.3 rating, 83 sacks, 1 fourthqc, 2 gwd Hoyer - 31 starts, 16-15 record, 59.5% comp, 8608 yards, 44 TDs, 12.1 ypc, 175 ypg, 84.8 rating, 65 sacks, 6 fourthqc, 6 gwd It's funny that Taylor gets so much love from the national media and Hoyer is looked at as a bum. LOL Technically TT is 14-14 but we all know that he is 15-14. This doesn't account for Tyrod's rushing stats or Hoyer's turnovers. It feels pretty convenient to leave those things out when evaluating the whole picture. That probably accounts for the large difference in their QB rating. It is hard to quantify the value that the threat of TT's legs has but it is a major factor. He is much tougher to defend than Hoyer. His ability to run keeps defenders at home and opens things up in the running game. Not sure where you are getting 145 ypg either (or Hoyer's ypg for that matter)? He is at 209 yards passing per start and another 40 yards on the ground. He also has another 10 TDs there over the last 2 years. Also, Tyrod has an 1.6% INT percentage and a 2.6:1 TD to INT ratio (not counting his 10 rushing TDs). Hoyer has a 2.2% INT percentage and a 1.7:1 TD to INT ratio. Other than the selective (and wrong stats) they are pretty much the same. Edited January 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Technically TT is 14-14 but we all know that he is 15-14. This doesn't account for Tyrod's rushing stats or Hoyer's turnovers. It feels pretty convenient to leave those things out when evaluating the whole picture. That probably accounts for the large difference in their QB rating. It is hard to quantify the value that the threat of TT's legs has but it is a major factor. He is much tougher to defend than Hoyer. His ability to run keeps defenders at home and opens things up in the running game. Not sure where you are getting 145 ypg either? He is at 209 yards passing per start and another 40 yards on the ground. He also has another 10 TDs there over the last 2 years. Other than the selective (and wrong stats) they are pretty much the same. No need to get so defensive. BTW, I got the stats from pro football reference and it said that Taylor had 145 passing yards per game for his career. Also, it needs to be pointed out that Hoyer has a huge lead over Taylor in 4qc and gwd games. I don't know why you're so upset. I provided a lot of stats. I don't want either QB. I'm good with giving Cardale a full season and seeing what he can do. If he's bad the Bills will get a top three pick and be set at QB for the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) No need to get so defensive. BTW, I got the stats from pro football reference and it said that Taylor had 145 passing yards per game for his career. Also, it needs to be pointed out that Hoyer has a huge lead over Taylor in 4qc and gwd games. I don't know why you're so upset. I provided a lot of stats. I don't want either QB. I'm good with giving Cardale a full season and seeing what he can do. If he's bad the Bills will get a top three pick and be set at QB for the next 10 years. I'm not upset but find a comparison using incomplete data isn't all that effective. I love Cardale Jones. He may be my favorite player on the Bills. He's a guy that I will defend even when it's wrong. I've seen every snap that he's taken since Glenville. With that being said he is nowhere near the player today that Tyrod Taylor is. The drop off is enormous. Cardale has a huge ceiling and is progressing nicely but he is not ready to be a starter in 2017. Edited January 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Technically TT is 14-14 but we all know that he is 15-14. This doesn't account for Tyrod's rushing stats or Hoyer's turnovers. It feels pretty convenient to leave those things out when evaluating the whole picture. That probably accounts for the large difference in their QB rating. It is hard to quantify the value that the threat of TT's legs has but it is a major factor. He is much tougher to defend than Hoyer. His ability to run keeps defenders at home and opens things up in the running game. Not sure where you are getting 145 ypg either (or Hoyer's ypg for that matter)? He is at 209 yards passing per start and another 40 yards on the ground. He also has another 10 TDs there over the last 2 years. Also, Tyrod has an 1.6% INT percentage and a 2.6:1 TD to INT ratio (not counting his 10 rushing TDs). Hoyer has a 2.2% INT percentage and a 1.7:1 TD to INT ratio. Other than the selective (and wrong stats) they are pretty much the same. Whether the Bills keep TT or not do you think that the organization believes that he is their long-term franchise qb? I don't think they do. If it did it would embrace him more by their deeds and words. That's not the case here. My position on this issue has changed. So I can't fairly say that I have been consistent on this issue. My recommendation as of now (still fluid) would be to keep TT and use their first round pick to select the the highest rated qb on their board. If the Bills used the first pick on a safety I will go crazy! If they use it for a receiver to help put TT in a more favorable position I will with some reluctance acquiesce to that approach. I'm not upset but found a comparison using incomplete data isn't all that effective. I love Cardale Jones. He may be my favorite player on the Bills. He's a guy that I will defend even when it's wrong. I've seen every snap that he's taken since Glenville. With that being said he is nowhere near the player today that Tyrod Taylor is. The drop off is enormous. Cardale has a huge ceiling and is progressing nicely but he is not ready to be a starter in 2017. Is Cardale considered to be an accurate passer. His physical attributes are appealing. But if he doesn't have that natural accuracy required by NFL standards then my interest in him precipitously falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Whether the Bills keep TT or not do you think that the organization believes that he is their long-term franchise qb? I don't think they do. If it did it would embrace him more by their deeds and words. That's not the case here. My position on this issue has changed. So I can't fairly say that I have been consistent on this issue. My recommendation as of now (still fluid) would be to keep TT and use their first round pick to select the the highest rated qb on their board. If the Bills used the first pick on a safety I will go crazy! If they use it for a receiver to help put TT in a more favorable position I will with some reluctance acquiesce to that approach. Is Cardale considered to be an accurate passer. His physical attributes are appealing. But if he doesn't have that natural accuracy required by NFL standards then my interest in him precipitously falls. His accuracy can be hit and miss but it's a function of mechanics IMO. He has elite arm talent though. He is capable of making some throws that very few others are. He's just not capable of doing it consistently. In terms of Tyrod, I don't know if he is the long term answer or not but I believe that he is the short term answer. I also believe that next year's draft has superior QB talent and would rather take a QB then. At 10 this year is be fine with Adams, Hooker, Williams, Davis or Foster (warming to him). S isn't traditionally a position that you take in the top 10 but both of those guys can be Pro Bowlers year 1. 8 of the 12 playoff teams start a 1st round safety, the game is changing (Atlanta, Seattle, GB, Giants, Pats, Raiders, Chiefs, & Cowboys). Those 2 guys can be great (not good). Edited January 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) I like Goya hot sauce.. give it a try. But seriously.. keep Tyrod I say. He doesn't turn the ball over. He gets no credit for that and it's very important. Anyone remember Fitz-pick-six? Anyone miss the INTs? That's what I thought. Edited January 19, 2017 by Idandria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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