Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 I understand that some either like Whaley or just want to convince themselves that he can do the job. But this whole "Whaley gets to start fresh" as if he has no record here is a joke. He's been the GM for 4 years. Maybe you think this roster is talented. I don't. But we'll see. It's just amazing that the man is literally off the hook for everything that has happened while he has been GM. The guy isn't responsible for anything you don't like for the past 4 years. He did the Hughes trade though. And the McCoy trade. But nothing else. Unless you like it. I think Buddy Nix is still a consultant, so we could always blame him still. McCoy fell in his lap and IIRC, Nix was still GM when the Hughes trade went down. I am amazed that there are so many on here who are unable to fault Whaley at all or at least look at things objectively and listen to what the "other side" is saying. It falls into the category of just give EJ more time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) The problem is that we might have to replace Tyrod, Woods, Kyle, Aaron, and Gillmore Going into the offseason hoping to sign/draft a starting QB, #2 WR, starting DT, #1 CB, and #1 S is a lot. All that gets us back to where we are as of today, assuming all the players you draft/sign are equal to who we lose in FA/retirement/business decisions. Now maybe you get lucky and upgrade 1 or 2 of those spots. But that is a heavy lift for one offseason, and none of that actually fills the holes that exist. Edited January 4, 2017 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 This I can get onboard with. Not everything has to get blown up Browns style - make some moves to clear cap room and get some picks to get new younger talent with a HC that you are comfortable with and has the same vision for the team as the owners and GM do. Whaley seems to go after whatever players the coach wants, which is good and bad. While he appears to be great in identifying pro-personnel, his drafting have been mostly WOOF... The problem is that we might have to replace Tyrod, Woods, Kyle, Aaron, and Gillmore Going into the offseason hoping to sign/draft a starting QB, #2 WR, starting DT, #1 CB, and #1 S is a lot. All that gets us back to where we are as of today, assuming all the players you draft/sign are equal to who we lose in FA/retirement/business decisions. Now maybe you get lucky and upgrade 1 or 2 of those spots. But that is a heavy lift for one offseason, and none of that actually fills the holes that exist. I have been saying this exact thing for awhile now; this is why I fear we will be in the 4-6 range next year and Whaley will be a goner...There is no way we can fill the holes and improve the weak positions this offseason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 McCoy fell in his lap and IIRC, Nix was still GM when the Hughes trade went down. I am amazed that there are so many on here who are unable to fault Whaley at all or at least look at things objectively and listen to what the "other side" is saying. It falls into the category of just give EJ more time.... It's simple: Did you like the move? Whaley did it. Even as assistant GM Nix let him make the move as part of his learning process. Did you hate the move? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was it recent? Then it was Rex's fault. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was it while Marrone was here? Then it was Buddy Nix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure? Just blame Russ Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I understand that some either like Whaley or just want to convince themselves that he can do the job. But this whole "Whaley gets to start fresh" as if he has no record here is a joke. He's been the GM for 4 years. Maybe you think this roster is talented. I don't. But we'll see. It's just amazing that the man is literally off the hook for everything that has happened while he has been GM. The guy isn't responsible for anything you don't like for the past 4 years. He did the Hughes trade though. And the McCoy trade. But nothing else. Unless you like it. I think Buddy Nix is still a consultant, so we could always blame him still. No, he's not...agree or not I don't think he wanted Marrone or Ryan....that's my big thing...get a coach he knows and agrees with and build the team they both want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) McCoy fell in his lap and IIRC, Nix was still GM when the Hughes trade went down. And Zach Brown and Lorenzo Alexander were looking for a Mighty Taco when they walked into One Bills Drive by accident. Edited January 4, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) It's just odd that for the last two head coaching hires the GM of the team didn't want the guy they hired. That's with two different owners too. I guess the front office never found it necessary to listen to the GM of the team. When I mention dysfunction in the front office that's what I mean. It's not really even about Whaley. He's (apparently) just a guy who works there and doesn't agree with anything they do. In that sense, he's a lot like fans then. Edited January 4, 2017 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It's just odd that for the last two head coaching hires the GM of the team didn't want the guy they hired. That's with two different owners too. I guess the front office never found it necessary to listen to the GM of the team. When I mention dysfunction in the front office that's what I mean. It's not really even about Whaley. He's (apparently) just a guy who works there and doesn't agree with anything they do. In that sense, he's a lot like fans then. but you criticize him in every post. I agree...the FO doesn't allow the GM to do what normal GMs do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 It's just odd that for the last two head coaching hires the GM of the team didn't want the guy they hired. That's with two different owners too. I guess the front office never found it necessary to listen to the GM of the team. When I mention dysfunction in the front office that's what I mean. It's not really even about Whaley. He's (apparently) just a guy who works there and doesn't agree with anything they do. In that sense, he's a lot like fans then. He wasn't the GM for the Marrone hire. He was for the Ryan hire obviously, but he Pegula wasn't sure what he wanted at the point, and he lost out on Polian, so he made the decision himself. Please, tell me all of the things that you don't like about Whaley. Keeping in mind that if you don't give him credit for the Hughes trade (which is fair), everything before that is on Nix...period. It's also VERY well established now that he wasn't responsible for the Rex hire. So please, go ahead. What exactly do you blame him for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 but you criticize him in every post. I agree...the FO doesn't allow the GM to do what normal GMs do I'm no fan of his either, and I think he should have been let go along with Rex. I also think there is a lot of revisionist history about his record here and how he had little to do with anything as GM. However, the problems are much bigger than just Whaley. When your GM says that he's not really sure what Russ Brandon does, but it's a lot, that indicates an issue there. Given the current narrative that Whaley just works in the office and is as shocked to learn about the goings on as we are, one wonders who has been making these decisions then. Marrone was hired before the Pegulas took over. So is it Russ? Are there other front office people pulling strings behind the scenes? From my perspective it's an issue of people on different pages fighting for different agendas. Thus the constant infighting and turnover of coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 When I mention dysfunction in the front office that's what I mean. It's not really even about Whaley. He's (apparently) just a guy who works there and doesn't agree with anything they do. In that sense, he's a lot like fans then. Didn't see this post prior to my last. Whaley has been around the league for a very long time, and was pretty well respected in Pittsburgh and prior to the current fiasco. If he hasn't been given the reigns to do things his own way, what makes you think he can't succeed now that he is (supposedly)?? Everyone wants to "blow things up". Hell, from what I can tell, we ARE doing that. If Whaley is finally being given control of this team, it's different than everything we have done before. For the first time in as long as I can remember, a well respected football guy is making decisions for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 And Zach Brown and Lorenzo Alexander were looking for a Mighty Taco when they walked into One Bills Drive by accident.If I had a nickel for every time that happened to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'm no fan of his either, and I think he should have been let go along with Rex. I also think there is a lot of revisionist history about his record here and how he had little to do with anything as GM. However, the problems are much bigger than just Whaley. When your GM says that he's not really sure what Russ Brandon does, but it's a lot, that indicates an issue there. Given the current narrative that Whaley just works in the office and is as shocked to learn about the goings on as we are, one wonders who has been making these decisions then. Marrone was hired before the Pegulas took over. So is it Russ? Are there other front office people pulling strings behind the scenes? From my perspective it's an issue of people on different pages fighting for different agendas. Thus the constant infighting and turnover of coaches. I'm not sure how anyone doesn't know that he was referring to the ever expanding role for Brandon with regard to PS&E. He certainly knows what Brandon does or has done in the past with respect to the Bills' operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) He wasn't the GM for the Marrone hire. He was for the Ryan hire obviously, but he Pegula wasn't sure what he wanted at the point, and he lost out on Polian, so he made the decision himself. Please, tell me all of the things that you don't like about Whaley. Keeping in mind that if you don't give him credit for the Hughes trade (which is fair), everything before that is on Nix...period. It's also VERY well established now that he wasn't responsible for the Rex hire. So please, go ahead. What exactly do you blame him for? Blame? It's not exactly blame. He's just not very good at assembling talent IMO. The fact that the Bills have so few of their own draft picks on the active roster is evidence of consistently poor drafting. The guy has been GM for 4 years now. I think he drafts the players (he said so anyway). Overall, I would say the roster is just OK. 7-9 wins, depending on injuries and bounces. If I had to grade Whaley on a scale of A-F, I would give him a C- Maybe he improves but I doubt it. The poor drafting is about to catch up with this team this offseason due to contracts expiring and guys leaving. Edited January 4, 2017 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'm no fan of his either, and I think he should have been let go along with Rex. I also think there is a lot of revisionist history about his record here and how he had little to do with anything as GM. However, the problems are much bigger than just Whaley. When your GM says that he's not really sure what Russ Brandon does, but it's a lot, that indicates an issue there. Given the current narrative that Whaley just works in the office and is as shocked to learn about the goings on as we are, one wonders who has been making these decisions then. Marrone was hired before the Pegulas took over. So is it Russ? Are there other front office people pulling strings behind the scenes? From my perspective it's an issue of people on different pages fighting for different agendas. Thus the constant infighting and turnover of coaches. I agree....Always starts at the top...The Pegula's need to have a little structure to the front office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I guess my final point on this situation is that both things can be true: the front office can be dysfunctional in the sense that the GM is just a guy who waits to hear what the team is going to do, and the GM can also be mediocre at best at his job when he is allowed to do it. The evidence is there on the roster. The Bills have one of the lowest numbers of drafted players on their active roster. They don't draft well and have not for several years. That (I think) is on Whaley. Now if he didn't draft any of the players for 4 years we have an even bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Blame? It's not exactly blame. He's just not very good at assembling talent IMO. The fact that the Bills have so few of their own draft picks on the active roster is evidence of consistently poor drafting. The guy has been GM for 4 years now. I think he drafts the players (he said so anyway). Overall, I would say the roster is just OK. 7-9 wins, depending on injuries and bounces. If I had to grade Whaley on a scale of A-F, I would give him a C- Maybe he improves but I doubt it. The poor drafting is about to catch up with this team this offseason due to contracts expiring and guys leaving. This post finally has merit, but frankly everything your saying is just an opinion that could go either way, and really doesn't justify your railing against people who think Whaley can still do a decent job or don't want to blame him for everything. For example, here's my take: People have different opinions about the Watkins trade, personally, as a general rule, I'm not against trading up to get a guy you think will be great. Watkins had/has that kind of talent, and I don't think they over paid based on draft position. But I get the argument the other way. Just keep in mind, the talk about getting the same level talent later in the draft is hindsight. I never saw ANYTHING prior to that draft that expected OBJ to be better than Watkins, or even as good as he has been. He was certainly supposed to be good, but Whaley traded up for an elite prospect; OBJ was a level below that. The draft is a crapshoot. BTW, I was dying for Mack, so I was disappointed with the pick, I just don't think it was such a horrible move like some people do. I disagree about your 7-9 roster statement. The team finished 7-9 and was ravaged by injuries (fact) and had a crap head coach and defensive system (my opinion). To me, that roster without so many injuries and better coaching is good for another 3 wins. Even more if they get the "bounces" (something I never count for Buffalo). And you took out the part about EJ...that's good cause it was flat out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 And Zach Brown and Lorenzo Alexander were looking for a Mighty Taco when they walked into One Bills Drive by accident. Never said he wasn't good a pro-personnel... He's not good at knowing how to build a team and the draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Never said he wasn't good a pro-personnel... He's not good at knowing how to build a team and the draft... That's part of building a team, no? Also, is Whaley expected to get the players Rex wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Never said he wasn't good a pro-personnel... He's not good at knowing how to build a team and the draft... Whaley has run three drafts as the GM. Which draft picks from '14, '15, and '16 are you ready to declare as failures? Edited January 4, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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