dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2016 ST stats: 30th in FG percentage 27th in XP percentage 30th in net punting yardage average 26th in inside-the-20 percentage on punts 21st in kickoff return yardage average They are 6th in punt return yardage average Overall, they were pretty bad. In close games, this stuff makes a difference, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2016 ST stats: 30th in FG percentage 27th in XP percentage 30th in net punting yardage average 26th in inside-the-20 percentage on punts 21st in kickoff return yardage average They are 6th in punt return yardage average Overall, they were pretty bad. In close games, this stuff makes a difference, obviously. Tate and Alexander are the only bright spots that come to mind for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Tate and Alexander are the only bright spots that come to mind for me. Yeah, Tate is a solid punt returner. The rest? Not so good. ST pretty much cost them the Miami game ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Our coach has had far more disastrous years than good - we gave him a ton to work with to have any success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Our coach has had far more disastrous years than good - we gave him a ton to work with to have any success To be fair to Rex (and I'm not a fan), he was never on board with Carpenter. He was stuck with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yeah, Tate is a solid punt returner. The rest? Not so good. ST pretty much cost them the Miami game ... I think Tate looked very good for half the games and very bad for the second half, after he got his bell wrung. I think we move on from him. Unless it was clear that he was playing hurt for all that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Well, our ST core was probably supposed to be Easley, Colt Anderson and Lorax. But yes, it was atrocious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 To be fair to Rex (and I'm not a fan), he was never on board with Carpenter. He was stuck with him. Yea but our special teams coordinator has been here throughout the decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 This is an utter disappointment considering the number of starters we used on ST too. Pretty ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yea but our special teams coordinator has been here throughout the decisions True. The thing about ST is that it's really all about the coaching (outside of FG/XP pct) because at the ST level, the players are generally interchangeable backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 True. The thing about ST is that it's really all about the coaching (outside of FG/XP pct) because at the ST level, the players are generally interchangeable backups. I don't think that is true at all. There is just as big a range between great-good-fair-crappy ST guys picked out of the backups as there are great-good-fair-crappy starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) I don't think that is true at all. There is just as big a range between great-good-fair-crappy ST guys picked out of the backups as there are great-good-fair-crappy starters. I disagree, respectfully. All ST coaches are handed a bunch of guys who cycle on and off teams over the course of a year, and many (even most) are marginal NFL players. You make the best of what you have from an ever changing list of ingredients. Except for a player or two here and there every season (Patrick Peterson, for instance), none of the guys playing STs are very good. Otherwise they wouldn't be playing STs because of the risk of injury. Good coaching makes a difference. Put another way, there's not Brady/Manning-type ST player out there who makes coaches look great. Edited December 27, 2016 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I disagree, respectfully. All ST coaches are handed a bunch of guys who cycle on and off teams over the course of a year, and many (even most) are marginal NFL players. You make the best of what you have from an ever changing list of ingredients. Except for a player or two here and there every season (Patrick Peterson, for instance), none of the guys playing STs are very good. Otherwise they wouldn't be playing STs because of the risk of injury. Good coaching makes a difference. Put another way, there's not Brady/Manning-type ST player out there who makes coaches look great. Good coaching makes a huge difference. Not arguing there. But some guys are great on ST and a lot of guys suck. And they suck for a lot of the same reasons they are not starters. ST are a special skill not all NFL players possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Good coaching makes a huge difference. Not arguing there. But some guys are great on ST and a lot of guys suck. And they suck for a lot of the same reasons they are not starters. ST are a special skill not all NFL players possess. Fair point, but regardless, the Bills STs haven't been stellar this season. If I see another KO return in which the returner catches it a half yard deep in the end zone, I'm going to blow my brains out. Those returns never get to the 25. Never. Yet Bills' returners continued to do it. That is coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Most NFL players were the stars on their college teams. So they never played ST in college. They get to the pros and most of them aren't NFL-level stars, so they're expected to jump in and play ST and do things they haven't learned to do. A certain percentage of them figure it out and some of those guys use ST excellence to stick around, often a lot longer than their peers who are focused on regular positions. But most of the guys stuck on ST squads never devote the time or dedication needed to be good at ST. The Bills have had great STs some years, and lousy STs other years. A lot of it has to be coaching. Fair point, but regardless, the Bills STs haven't been stellar this season. If I see another KO return in which the returner catches it a half yard deep in the end zone, I'm going to blow my brains out. Those returns never get to the 25. Never. Yet Bills' returners continued to do it. That is coaching. Dave is exactly right. The measure of success for a KO return compared to a touchback is, did you get to the 25? Returners hardly ever do that, but the last half of this year, the Bills opponents did it regularly. I think a lot of it is coaching, and devising schemes to prevent the other guys from getting a seam in the coverage. Were the Bills even trying to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Most NFL players were the stars on their college teams. So they never played ST in college. They get to the pros and most of them aren't NFL-level stars, so they're expected to jump in and play ST and do things they haven't learned to do. A certain percentage of them figure it out and some of those guys use ST excellence to stick around, often a lot longer than their peers who are focused on regular positions. But most of the guys stuck on ST squads never devote the time or dedication needed to be good at ST. The Bills have had great STs some years, and lousy STs other years. A lot of it has to be coaching. Dave is exactly right. The measure of success for a KO return compared to a touchback is, did you get to the 25? Returners hardly ever do that, but the last half of this year, the Bills opponents did it regularly. I think a lot of it is coaching, and devising schemes to prevent the other guys from getting a seam in the coverage. Were the Bills even trying to do that? I was actually talking about the Bills returners constantly returning it when they shouldn't have! But point taken nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 This is an utter disappointment considering the number of starters we used on ST too. Pretty ridiculous. You will be soon be able to Crossman the problem off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 You will be soon be able to Crossman the problem off the list. this guy should have been crossed off the list from the first day that Rex came to town. I can't believe he was the one guy they kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I'm so glad the OP brought this to the forefront!! Special Teams has been a very weak point this year. I'm not totally against Carpenter (see the other thread about him - I believe Rex totally messed him up!), but we probably need to take a good look at other options coming spring. But, the kick and punt coverage has been terrible. The Lorax has been the only bright spot. The rest of the team needs to go to the Steve Tasker school of hard knocks!! Just think: Had we had proper coverage or a deep, non-returnable kick on the last regulation kick to Miami, we win that game. Seeing that return, I knew that'd kick the field goal and go into OT and we'd lose. See that too many times over the years. Total lack of killer instinct, which I've brought up before regarding the Raiders and Seahawks games. And that's coaching. You get the lead with 1:00 remaining and you get the team together and tell them to stomp on their throats!!! Build a bully...........or something like that I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 True. The thing about ST is that it's really all about the coaching (outside of FG/XP pct) because at the ST level, the players are generally interchangeable backups. Even kicking - I think we have been at times lazy in technique and forward thinking. Look at the articles about our approach to xp vs other teams that have shifted things around with success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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