metzelaars_lives Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 When you have McCoy... Yea. All you need to do is actually pass the ball.But McCoy isn't McCoy without Taylor. Do you really think McCoy and Gillislee would be as effective if Charlie Whitehurst was the quarterback? This whole idea that "well anyone can just hand the ball to McCoy" is not reality. Taylor, for all his shortcomings as a passer, is capable of leading an effective offense. He's done it for two years now. While I wouldn't be averse to the idea of letting him go, I also wouldn't be against restructuring his contract a bit, getting him another legitimate receiving option and giving him one more season. I think it's a close call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 But McCoy isn't McCoy without Taylor. Do you really think McCoy and Gillislee would be as effective if Charlie Whitehurst was the quarterback? This whole idea that "well anyone can just hand the ball to McCoy" is not reality. Taylor, for all his shortcomings as a passer, is capable of leading an effective offense. He's done it for two years now. While I wouldn't be averse to the idea of letting him go, I also wouldn't be against restructuring his contract a bit, getting him another legitimate receiving option and giving him one more season. I think it's a close call. I'm with a lot of your posts here but this is just wrong, McCoy had 1,600 yards with Napelon Dynamite at qb. McCoy has a much bigger impact on Taylor than Taylor had on McCoy. It should worry you that Taylor isn't able to hurt defenses more with the pass with a top 3 RB and a top 5 oline imo. It's a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 But McCoy isn't McCoy without Taylor. Do you really think McCoy and Gillislee would be as effective if Charlie Whitehurst was the quarterback? This whole idea that "well anyone can just hand the ball to McCoy" is not reality. Taylor, for all his shortcomings as a passer, is capable of leading an effective offense. He's done it for two years now. While I wouldn't be averse to the idea of letting him go, I also wouldn't be against restructuring his contract a bit, getting him another legitimate receiving option and giving him one more season. I think it's a close call. Yeah so McCoy might have to only face 6 or 7 in the box, and he might have 2000 yards already if Tyrod was capable of throwing the ball keeping the defense honest. He can't so McCoy consistently faces 8 or 9 in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 We can agree to disagree on this one. I think Taylor's ability to run himself keeps defenses honest and makes it easier for whoever has the ball when he hands it off. You can say McCoy was just as effective with Philadelphia but look at what Karlos did last year and what Gillislee has done this year. Or else we have the best run blocking team in the NFL by far. One of those must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 McCoy has had multiple 1,300 yard seasons with far less mobile qbs. And I believe we have a top 5 running blocking oline and we run the ball a ton. If we could threaten defenses with our pass, McCoy might be having an even better year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 McCoy has had multiple 1,300 yard seasons with far less mobile qbs. And I believe we have a top 5 running blocking oline and we run the ball a ton. If we could threaten defenses with our pass, McCoy might be having an even better year. Agreed, and amazing how some can't figure that out. We can agree to disagree on this one. I think Taylor's ability to run himself keeps defenses honest and makes it easier for whoever has the ball when he hands it off. You can say McCoy was just as effective with Philadelphia but look at what Karlos did last year and what Gillislee has done this year. Or else we have the best run blocking team in the NFL by far. One of those must be true. That's new that 8/9 in the box is keeping a defense honest. Who knew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 McCoy has had multiple 1,300 yard seasons with far less mobile qbs. And I believe we have a top 5 running blocking oline and we run the ball a ton. If we could threaten defenses with our pass, McCoy might be having an even better year. I agree with everything you just said. But I also don't think the Bills are a top ten scoring offense the last two seasons if everything is exactly the same but Taylor doesn't have the unbelievable mobility he does. My point being, he's far and away a more effective quarterback overall than he is just a passer. Like he might be the 30th best passing QB in the league but maybe closer to the 20th best QB overall. Fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 We can agree to disagree on this one. I think Taylor's ability to run himself keeps defenses honest and makes it easier for whoever has the ball when he hands it off. You can say McCoy was just as effective with Philadelphia but look at what Karlos did last year and what Gillislee has done this year. Or else we have the best run blocking team in the NFL by far. One of those must be true. On your first point, you're entirely incorrect. You're closer to correct on your second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I agree with everything you just said. But I also don't think the Bills are a top ten scoring offense the last two seasons if everything is exactly the same but Taylor doesn't have the unbelievable mobility he does. My point being, he's far and away a more effective quarterback overall than he is just a passer. Like he might be the 30th best passing QB in the league but maybe closer to the 20th best QB overall. Fair? 20th ranked QB isn't good enough for me just like 18th or whatever the defense is ranked isn't good enough for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 20th ranked QB isn't good enough for me just like 18th or whatever the defense is ranked isn't good enough for others.Agreed. Just not sure there's a better option out there. I think Jay Cutler is a better passing QB than Taylor. But is he a better QB overall? Would they have a top ten scoring offense again next year under Cutler? Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I agree with everything you just said. But I also don't think the Bills are a top ten scoring offense the last two seasons if everything is exactly the same but Taylor doesn't have the unbelievable mobility he does. My point being, he's far and away a more effective quarterback overall than he is just a passer. Like he might be the 30th best passing QB in the league but maybe closer to the 20th best QB overall. Fair? Not to bring up your least person ever but the Bills actually agreed more points in EJ starts than Taylor ones last year, obviously it's not to say EJ is better than Taylor but I think it is a very good offense where a lot of qbs can do well. Taylor's best skills are running and protecting the ball. I don't think that is hard to replace. I think he is a lower tier starting qb but you need to have everything else around him being really good to be successful. He doesn't really elevate the team and 200 yards passing shouldn't be this hard. I know you can do much worse but I don't think it is that hard to replace what he does either. I could be wrong but I think we have a super talent offense. It's embarrassing how we use guys like Clay and Woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm with a lot of your posts here but this is just wrong, McCoy had 1,600 yards with Napelon Dynamite at qb. McCoy has a much bigger impact on Taylor than Taylor had on McCoy. It should worry you that Taylor isn't able to hurt defenses more with the pass with a top 3 RB and a top 5 oline imo. It's a big problem. I'd expect his numbers to go down. As Metz-Lives says, Taylor is a pretty big part of the running game. Not all "grond and pound schemes are created equal. This is really a pretty innovative running game. It relies on a number of things to make it work. Multiple blocking formations, interior lineman who can pull, lead blocking from a back. misdirection, etc. And it also relies on getting a defense to flow one way and then attacking in another area. And the threat of Taylor running is a large part of creating the misdirection. I may be one of the few (along with John Gruden), who actually enjoys watching it operate. I'll put it this way. If this was the Marrone-Hackett version of the ground and pound, with using the same running play up the middle on 1st and 2nd down, Shady may fare no better than Spiller did 2 years ago. And he would become frustrated, and people would call the trade a failure. With that aside...with competent play calling on the ground game, I'd expect Lynn to come up with a decent enough game plan where the fall off wouldn't be cliff-like. It would suffer, but not be fatal. As far as the "guy who can pass for 200 yards", I'm assuming you mean a pretty mediocre QB. A guy like Osweiler, Trevor Siemian or...moving up the line a bit, a Sam Bradford. In terms of passing yards, a QB like that might be able to offset the lost rushing yards (and you have to add in Taylor's 500+ rushing yards). But in terms of scoring....idk if the O would score any more points, ...or even as many. Osweiler has around 14 TDs Siemian has around 16 Bradford has 19 Taylor has 20 passing and rushing. I'd also expect more sacks and more ints. At times, Taylor has a good amount of time to throw and leaves the pocket early. But he probably leads the league in making-the-guy-who-comes-in-untouched-in-less-than-a-second miss category. Most pure pockets passers would be getting nailed more than people want to admit. Now, if you're talking about a Phil Rivers or Drew Brees as the guy who can throw for 200 yards, I'd agree...but I'm not sure if that's what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 ?? -- The Bills aren't 31st in passer rating. Not even close. Why would you say this? Passing YPG. Who cares about passer rating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The only meaningful stat is wins and losses. Right now that makes the Bills a .500 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The idea that we're only a great running team because of Taylor is lunacy. McCoy and the offensive line are tremendous and the strength of out team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Passing YPG. Who cares about passer rating?Ha. Passer rating is infinitely more important than passing yards per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Ha. Passer rating is infinitely more important than passing yards per game. And yet, here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Ha. Passer rating is infinitely more important than passing yards per game. Infinitely? If passer rating is so important why do Brian Hoyer and Sam Bradford have a higher passer rating than Ben Roethlisberger? If passer rating is so important why are 6 of the top 10 passer rating QB's going to miss the playoffs this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb62 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Save TT. My best friends sisters boyfriends brothers girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid whos going with a girl who saw Tyrod pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I believe this guy, he seems to be well informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 If passer rating is so important why are 6 of the top 10 passer rating QB's going to miss the playoffs this year? And yet 4 of the top 10 passing yardage leaders are already eliminated, with Cousins hanging by a thread, and Flacco's and Rodgers' hopes tenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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