plenzmd1 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Doesn't ND vacating these wins due to academic agreements prove that these schools aren't always "sink or swim" for athletes? Agree...think there will always be one offs....but in the main athletes still need to do the work to stay eligible and graduate at top tier academic schools. Weird, you would have thought the problems at NC would have affected their academic reputation more than it has..still tough as balls to get in there for an out of state student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 If they lose future number of football scholarships as a penalty , that would hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 @AP_Top25 BREAKING: NCAA orders Notre Dame to vacate wins from 2012-13 and 2013-14 football seasons in academic misconduct case. What a dumb thing... Can't take away what happened in the past. If they lose future number of football scholarships as a penalty , that would hurt. It only hurts those few players that wouldn't have received one b.c they are not start athletes. The stars they recruit would still get them. This hurts the kids not the actual team. When things like this happen they should just force the firing of all adults in charge. Not punish those kids who are coming out of HS with hope to play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Leave the poor guy alone. @JeffEisenband Manti Te'o: "It was so great when I won 12 games in 2012." Reporters: "Those wins don't exist." Manti Te'o: "Are you kidding me? Not again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible. yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Leave the poor guy alone. @JeffEisenband Manti Te'o: "It was so great when I won 12 games in 2012." Reporters: "Those wins don't exist." Manti Te'o: "Are you kidding me? Not again." these never get old😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I just dont find this to be a big deal. I'd be willing to bet if they launched an investigation for academic ineligibility into every school, Half of the record book would need to be re-written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagel Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day. Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, but having taught D1 athletes at Stanford I can assure you that is not the case there. You may not like guys like Doug Baldwin, Andrew Luck, Richard Sherman or AJ Tarpley, but those guys worked HARD (and honestly) at Stanford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible. I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes. Most schools use something called the athlete's index, where their gpa and SATs are weighed. Ivy League schools, for instance, will take a few students who mid to low. Other schools will be a lot more open and take a ton of low scale students. But it's insulting to assume a school like Stanford cheats. It's one the few programs that actually believes in being a school first. Have you ever read about players like Luck or Shayne Skov? These guys proudly call themselves nerds. And one of the reasons Jonathan Martin struggled with RI is because Stanford is a completely different environment than the rest of the meathead programs. yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day. Again, they recruit differently and special kids. Believe it or not, there are Ivy League school's filled with guys who could have played bigger D 1 football but are wired differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Honestly I'm not sure how good schools like ND or Stanford can compete without some sort of academic agreements in place to keep the players eligible. That's why they have such a hard time competing any more against the top teams. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. I don't know what you are basing this on, but having taught athletes at Stanford -- including Stanford football players -- I can assure you that this is not my experience. I determined their grades and there was no "cheating" to keep them eligible. I was not involved with admissions, but once on campus Stanford football players took the same courses and met the same academic requirements as their fellow Stanford students. My daughter is Senior this year and was recruited in a non-revenue sport..her coach always said 3 seconds faster in a 200 is worth more than extra 100 on the SAT...and man is that ever true! Doesn't ND vacating these wins due to academic agreements prove that these schools aren't always "sink or swim" for athletes? I'm bashing ND for what just came out. I'm also bashing the people who claim this never happens at "good" schools. Agree...think there will always be one offs....but in the main athletes still need to do the work to stay eligible and graduate at top tier academic schools. yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day. Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, but having taught D1 athletes at Stanford I can assure you that is not the case there. I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes. That's why they have the "Sociology" major. Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as: Africana Studies American Studies Arabic Studies Film, Television, and Theatre French and Francophone Studies Gender Studies Irish Language and Literature Italian Studies Medieval Studies Political Science Program of Liberal Studies Sociology Studio Art Self-Designed Majors Edited November 23, 2016 by \GoBillsInDallas/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 @JayBilas Excessive sanctions to the point of absurdity. This was a student-trainer typing papers. Not institutional. https://t.co/7PdCcQdbgf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Also, Brian Kelly seems likes a miserable SOB. And he killed a kid so there's that too. <p> That's why they have the "Sociology" major. Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as: Africana Studies American Studies Arabic Studies Film, Television, and Theatre French and Francophone Studies Gender Studies Irish Language and Literature Italian Studies Medieval Studies Political Science Program of Liberal Studies Sociology Studio Art Self-Designed Majors Andrew Luck has an architectural design degree. Shayne Skov has an engineering degree. https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2013/3/18/4118830/stanford-football-shayne-skov?client=safari Stanford is one school that does it the right way and it's why it's my favorite program in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 That's why they have the "Sociology" major. Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as: Africana Studies American Studies Arabic Studies Film, Television, and Theatre French and Francophone Studies Gender Studies Irish Language and Literature Italian Studies Medieval Studies Political Science Program of Liberal Studies Sociology Studio Art Self-Designed Majors And, eee gads!, look what they are up to at Harvard: African and African American Studies Classics Comparative Literature East Asian Studies Folklore and Mythology Germanic Languages Government History of Art and Architecture Music Philosophy Slavic Language and Literature Social Studies Sociology Special Concentrations Theater Women, Gender, and Sexuality You may have stumbled onto something huge here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes. Most schools use something called the athlete's index, where their gpa and SATs are weighed. Ivy League schools, for instance, will take a few students who mid to low. Other schools will be a lot more open and take a ton of low scale students. But it's insulting to assume a school like Stanford cheats. It's one the few programs that actually believes in being a school first. Have you ever read about players like Luck or Shayne Skov? These guys proudly call themselves nerds. And one of the reasons Jonathan Martin struggled with RI is because Stanford is a completely different environment than the rest of the meathead programs. Again, they recruit differently and special kids. Believe it or not, there are Ivy League school's filled with guys who could have played bigger D 1 football but are wired differently. Although "You can clearly tell I've never been recruited" doesn't mean I didn't already know that colleges have different standards for athletes than the general student body. In fact that was part of the point that I was making. These universities claim to be all about education and the betterment of the world. In reality a large portion of what they are about is the same as what the rest of the world is about, money. If it wasn't about money athletes would be held to the same admission standards as the rest of the student body. The reality is that these division one universities make money from football. The American system of college is all about the money. If these universities were all such moral beacons they wouldn't lower their standards for athletes. Luck and Martin are exceptions rather than the rule. I won't be sold this bogus idea that Sherman is a genius because he attended Stanford. There are guys who played at both ND and Stanford who wouldn't have been admitted if it wasn't for football. They then proceed to take a cake major taylored to athletes. No one can ever convince me that this isn't the case. Especially when I see these guys interviewed compared to the other students who attend these schools. The examples of this at Stanford aren't as strong as those at ND, but it's really obvious at ND. PS Sorry to insult Stanford, I didn't know that institutions of higher education were sacred to the point that we can't even question any element of their operations. I didn't know if they cheat. I just said that I wouldn't completely rule it out. ND is guilty of cheating, and prior to this news plenty of people would have said that could never happen at such a fine institution. Edited November 24, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I just dont find this to be a big deal. I'd be willing to bet if they launched an investigation for academic ineligibility into every school, Half of the record book would need to be re-written. Why think so small? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 @NDsidBertschy Statement from @NDFootball coach Brian Kelly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts