NoSaint Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Bledsoe had just signed a $103 million contract He was only 29 They hadn't just used a 2nd round on his heir He returned during the season he was injured and even won a playoff game for them Though he was 13-19 in his two prior seasons. Including a run of 6 tds and 17 ints in an 8 game stretch in the better of those two seasons. So while he was a good player and did sign a 10m a year deal- he was In a rough stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) did you even bother to look what post #55 was responding to? or is this just a duck and dive maneuver after your silly stat attempt failed to undermine Bledsoe's contribution? The concept that you thought I was in some way trying to undermine Bledsoe's contribution helps explain why this conversation feels like herding cats. Post #55 was in reference to post #48....which was referencing post #41....which was your response to the concept that the OP was wild speculation. Your comment in post #41 in a stand alone context is quite reasonable. There is a chance that Garoppolo getting to start 4 games could unseat Brady. It isn't likely as Brady just won a SB and was MVP candidate....and in comparison to Brady unseating Bledsoe will be a much bigger task....but possible non the less. The problem you have here is that the above proposition was not the same as in the OP. By you speculating in the OP, "Is he saying the QB position is open and will be decided via competition?", you are saying that the coaches might not simply recognize a better QB on the field(in games) and stick with them over the aging incumbent(which you came to saying later in the thread...#41)....but are saying they could be actively, with predetermination, be opening up an open QB competition, which is honestly quite ludicrous. Edited June 1, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 The concept that you thought I was in some way trying to undermine Bledsoe's contribution helps explain why this conversation feels like herding cats. Post #55 was in reference to post #48....which was referencing post #41....which was your response to the concept that the OP was wild speculation. Your comment in post #41 in a stand alone context is quite reasonable. There is a chance that Garoppolo getting to start 4 games could unseat Brady. It isn't likely as Brady just won a SB and was MVP candidate....and in comparison to Brady unseating Bledsoe will be a much bigger task....but possible non the less. The problem you have here is that the above proposition was not the same as in the OP. By you speculating in the OP, "Is he saying the QB position is open and will be decided via competition?", you are saying that the coaches might not simply recognize a better QB on the field(in games) and stick with them over the aging incumbent(which you came to saying later in the thread...#41)....but are saying they could be actively, with predetermination, open up an open QB competition, which is honestly quite ludicrous. Do you understand the difference between posing a question versus stating ones certain belief in an outcome? Doesnt seem so as the OP was the former but you replying as if its the latter. Also bledsoes situation IS relevant because we're talking exact same coach and owner. And just as one can point to differences why this is different in favor of Brady, one can also point to factors against too. Your problem is you only want to hear and see it one way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Do you understand the difference between posing a question versus stating ones certain belief in an outcome? Doesnt seem so as the OP was the former but you replying as if its the latter.... Yes. I understand the difference....and fully admit guilt in this case. Wild speculation is the former. Condemning wild speculation as ludicrous is the later. ....Also bledsoes situation IS relevant because we're talking exact same coach and owner. And just as one can point to differences why this is different in favor of Brady, one can also point to factors against too. Your problem is you only want to hear and see it one way Though it may be the same coaches and owner....as I previously stated...it is not the same situation. Replacing a QB who has been injured due to seeing how good the replacement has played in many games through a season is totally different to knowing your QB is going to be out for 4 games and deciding to hold an open QB competition in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Yes. I understand the difference....and fully admit guilt in this case. Wild speculation is the former. Condemning wild speculation as ludicrous is the later. Though it may be the same coaches and owner....as I previously stated...it is not the same situation. Replacing a QB who has been injured due to seeing how good the replacement has played in many games through a season is totally different to knowing your QB is going to be out for 4 games and deciding to hold an open QB competition in camp. So a question is "wild speculation"? LOL and of course no 2 situations are exactly the same. And you dont seem to realize future events will occur that you may have not expected. A few months ago I'm sure you would have attacked anyone asking " is there a chance bills trade kiko for a running back?" And your response would have included a cut and paste of his rookie stats. Anyone can cut and paste stats, it's thinking thru various outcomes takes effort Edited June 1, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) It's not a coincidence that the Cheaters drafted JG higher than any QB since Bledsoe. Whereas previously during the Brady era they've drafted mostly later-round QB's who they hoped they could develop to trade for a higher pick. Edited June 1, 2015 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 So a question is "wild speculation"? LOL.... No. A "wild speculation" is a type of question...which is what you did in the OP. A reasonable question would have been somewhat similar to what you suggested mid-thread "Might Garoppolo unseat Brady during his 4 games as a starter?" ....and of course no 2 situations are exactly the same.... Of course not. But if you can't see that the two we were comparing are vastly different then that is a reflection on yourself, not on me. ....And you dont seem to realize future events will occur that you may have not expected. ... That concept is totally irrelevant as you were speculating on things that are happening now in camp. I already acknowledged that I accept the concept of potential future changes to Brady/Garoppolo. ...A few months ago I'm sure you would have attacked anyone asking " is there a chance bills trade kiko for a running back?" And your response would have included a cut and paste of his rookie stats.... I don't think I would have reacted as such....but I guess you'd know me better. ....Anyone can cut and paste stats, it's thinking thru various outcomes takes effort Simply speculating on something does not necessarily mean one has thought things through. Are we having fun yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 No. A "wild speculation" is a type of question...which is what you did in the OP. A reasonable question would have been somewhat similar to what you suggested mid-thread "Might Garoppolo unseat Brady during his 4 games as a starter?" Of course not. But if you can't see that the two we were comparing are vastly different then that is a reflection on yourself, not on me. That concept is totally irrelevant as you were speculating on things that are happening now in camp. I already acknowledged that I accept the concept of potential future changes to Brady/Garoppolo. I don't think I would have reacted as such....but I guess you'd know me better. Simply speculating on something does not necessarily mean one has thought things through. Are we having fun yet? That was post #6,486 for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 If they cheat did they pwn us fair and square? Cheating is not, fair and square. it is the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It's not a coincidence that the Cheaters drafted JG higher than any QB since Bledsoe. Whereas previously during the Brady era they've drafted mostly later-round QB's who they hoped they could develop to trade for a higher pick. Since Brady has been starter, they have only drafted 2 QBs in rounds beyond the 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Would any of us actually be shocked if that turned out to be true? Lol, that'd be quite shocking news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Since Brady has been starter, they have only drafted 2 QBs in rounds beyond the 3rd. fact check WEO - how many QB's have they drafted in the last 15 years? (since Bady* started) 2015 - 0, 2014 - 2nd Jimmy G, 2013 - 0, 2012 - 0, 2011 3rd Ryan Mallett, 2010 7th Zac Robinson, 2009 - 0, 2008 3rd Kevin O'Connell, 2007 - 0, 2006 - 0, 2005 7th Matt Cassel, 2004 - 0, 2003 6th Kliff Kingsbury, 2002 4th Rohan Davey, If my math is right - 7. - that's THREE 3rd round or lower - that's FOUR 4th round or higher How many are still in the NFL? 3? How many are lock solid starters? maybe 1!? It seems that their % of successful QB's really sucks. sooooo does that mean the 6th rounder Brady was a fluke pick? Flashback Memory - does anyone else remember The Rohan? What talk there was of how good he'd be!!! Edited June 1, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Your wild guess is 2? Jimmy G, Mallett, and Cassel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Your wild guess is 2? Jimmy G, Mallett, and Cassel... Meh was a 7th rounder per http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Meh was a 7th rounder per http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ I didn't realize that meant he wasn't in the NFL. I missed any qualifiers in that convo, but your statement was about QB's drafted that still play from what I could tell. If I missed something then my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 fact check WEO - how many QB's have they drafted in the last 15 years? (since Bady* started) 2015 - 0, 2014 - 2nd Jimmy G, 2013 - 0, 2012 - 0, 2011 3rd Ryan Mallett, 2010 7th Zac Robinson, 2009 - 0, 2008 3rd Kevin O'Connell, 2007 - 0, 2006 - 0, 2005 7th Matt Cassel, 2004 - 0, 2003 6th Kliff Kingsbury, 2002 4th Rohan Davey, If my math is right - 7. - that's THREE 3rd round or lower - that's FOUR 4th round or higher How many are still in the NFL? 3? How many are lock solid starters? maybe 1!? It seems that their % of successful QB's really sucks. sooooo does that mean the 6th rounder Brady was a fluke pick? Flashback Memory - does anyone else remember The Rohan? What talk there was of how good he'd be!!! Thanks for doing the work for me. And yes, Brady was a fluke pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 fact check WEO - how many QB's have they drafted in the last 15 years? (since Bady* started) 2015 - 0, 2014 - 2nd Jimmy G, 2013 - 0, 2012 - 0, 2011 3rd Ryan Mallett, 2010 7th Zac Robinson, 2009 - 0, 2008 3rd Kevin O'Connell, 2007 - 0, 2006 - 0, 2005 7th Matt Cassel, 2004 - 0, 2003 6th Kliff Kingsbury, 2002 4th Rohan Davey, If my math is right - 7. - that's THREE 3rd round or lower - that's FOUR 4th round or higher How many are still in the NFL? 3? How many are lock solid starters? maybe 1!? It seems that their % of successful QB's really sucks. sooooo does that mean the 6th rounder Brady was a fluke pick? Flashback Memory - does anyone else remember The Rohan? What talk there was of how good he'd be!!! So what? They haven't needed a QB since Brady has been starter, so they haven't put much capital in the position. Where are all the QB's that the Colts drafted while Manning was QB? Or Steelers since Big Ben has been there? Or Baltimore since Flacco? Or NO since Brees? Or...well, you might be getting the picture by now. If you had looked instead at how have the backups the pats have drafted since Brady have done, you MIGHT have had a point. But again, who cares how well a team drafts backups? Why don't foucs instead on the QBs a team desperate for a franchise, or at least starting caliber QB have done sinc e Brady go into the league. Go on... A NE draft pick has played in 6 SB and won 4 since 2000. I would say that's a pretty good QB success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I didn't realize that meant he wasn't in the NFL. I missed any qualifiers in that convo, but your statement was about QB's drafted that still play from what I could tell. If I missed something then my bad oops my bad thought you were referring to a different post, So what? They haven't needed a QB since blah blah blah BWAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaa when Tom* gets favored, have rules changed to protect him and allowed to cheat .. yeah you could say that. BTW They needed Cassel didn't they? They need Garapolo don't they? and yes it matters the other 4 were nothings selected by the Great Belicheat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) oops my bad thought you were referring to a different post, BWAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaa when Tom* gets favored, have rules changed to protect him and allowed to cheat .. yeah you could say that. BTW They needed Cassel didn't they? They need Garapolo don't they? and yes it matters the other 4 were nothings selected by the Great Belicheat!!! Why can't you answer the simple question? Where are all the great QBs picked by those other teams? How about the great Bill Walsh's QB picks? What became of Dan Hartwig? Joe Adams? Brian Clark? Scott Barry? John Paye? No, NE doesn't Garappolo--they could wheel out Curtis Painter for for games 1-4 and still make the playoffs. And no, they didn't need Cassel that year, the needed Brady. It was the only year they missed the playoffs since 2003. Now Cassel Cassel has been passed around the league until he's been good and used up enough so that he's ready for the Bills. He will be added the outstanding QB selections by this FO: EJ, Lewis, Orton, TARvaris Jackson (twice), Tyrod Taylor, Tuel, Kolb, Palmer....and now Cassel. Laugh that one off, merry man. Edited June 1, 2015 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Since Brady has been starter, they have only drafted 2 QBs in rounds beyond the 3rd. This is their first in the 2nd, the first time Brady is at the age when players hit the wall, the first time the backup is getting equal reps in practice, and first time the assumed backup looks probable to start the first 4 games. Use word "assumed" backup because Bellicheck did not specify who's #1 on the depth chart, only seeming to indicate it was open to competition Edited June 1, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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