T master Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You can't win with a bad defense !! No Way ! No How !! I've seen really good defensive teams win with mediocre QB or offensive play but i've never seen it the other way around . Yes a QB is very important but how many games would the Bills have won this year with the Wannstadt defense from a couple years ago ?? It takes all 3 phases of the game to contribute to win a championship actually 4 if you consider the coaching staff as one of those parts of the team . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You can't win with a bad defense !! No Way ! No How !! I've seen really good defensive teams win with mediocre QB or offensive play but i've never seen it the other way around . Yes a QB is very important but how many games would the Bills have won this year with the Wannstadt defense from a couple years ago ?? It takes all 3 phases of the game to contribute to win a championship actually 4 if you consider the coaching staff as one of those parts of the team . 2006 Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Sarcasm aside, the front office has butchered the position over the years. So have about 25 other teams. The fact is, "elite" QBs don't come easy. It's basically a crapshoot unless you're Luck/Manning coming out of college. So this whining about the Bills needing a QB is really dumb, because our FO is very aware. Every team has constant pressure on them to secure the next elite QB. Edited January 16, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) To me it breaks down as follows..... One can win the SB with stellar QB play or an elite defense(or both). Stellar QB play comes from truly great QBs.....and occasionally 2nd tier QBs who have a great year(Flacco, E.Manning). Elite defenses are those that are truly great, not simply top 5 for the year(2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks etc). That's it. Since 2000(and most of the previous 15+ years) the above has been the rule for winning a SB. Mind you, an elite defense still needs an efficient offense, while a star QB can win it with a deficient defense on occassion. Luckily for the Bills we have a chance(with Rex) to achieve an elite defense. If we do that.....and manage to get efficient QB play from the offense, then we have a decent shot at the SB IMO. Unfortunately elite defenses only seem to maintain their elite level for a few years before regressing. As I see it, unless we find a star QB, or Whaley keeps finding great talent for the defense, we have a 2-3 year window where we actually could have a fighting chance at winning the SB. Our time is NOW fellow Bills fans! Edited January 16, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Lost in this discussion was the notion of defense wins championships started back in the age of the NFL being mostly run oriented. The other adage used to be shut the run game down to win. The game has flipped. The run game has become secondary to an efficient passing game. The statistics really should be looked at by era. Hard to say where the dividing line is. Sadly, the Giants proved to the Bills that ball control, defense and a middling QB could win it all. The Bills clearly had a better QB and offense but if they did not have the ball there was little they could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Look at what we did to Rodgers this year in Buffalo. Or Peyton Manning the week before. Look at what Seattle did last year in Superbowl against Denver, which I believe set all time records for offense in the NFL during the regular season. A really, really top defense can negate a great offense on a given day. And then as long as the great defensive team has something other than impotent levels of offense, it can win. We need to keep doing what we are doing, but we need to get a lot more production out of the QB position which will stimulate the offense as a whole. I think we can go find someone who can produce more than Kyle and EJ last year. Will he be a top 10 stud? No, but he can be an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Seattle's great Defense stifled Peytons Great offense last season from play 1. Ravens D over the 49'ers O Giants over NE Steelers over GB IMO the better Defense won V the "better O" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The real contrast is it's much easier to keep a great qb long term than a great defense. The flip side is finding a great qb is really hard. Unless you are the packers who have almost 5 decades of solid qb play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 So the gist of this thread is that having a great QB is very important - gee who would have thunk it? The hard part is finding a great QB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) So the gist of this thread is that having a great QB is very important - gee who would have thunk it? The hard part is finding a great QB... if I missed any sarcasm not quite. the point is s that you don't need a great QB to win the big game(s) Edited January 16, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Seattle's great Defense stifled Peytons Great offense last season from play 1. Ravens D over the 49'ers O Giants over NE Steelers over GB IMO the better Defense won V the "better O" Ravens had a mediocre defense that year.....ranked 17th overall (17th pass, 20th rush, 12th scoring)Giants were worse.....ranked 27th overall (29th pass, 19th rush, 25th scoring) Ravens and Giants both had fantastic QB play through their respective post seasons and very much support the "need a great QB to win" crowd. Don't confuse having a good day with being consistantly good.......and even then the Ravens let through 468 yards and 31 points. Edited January 16, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 would you disagree that the "losers" where supposed to have the better offenses and QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Ravens had a mediocre defense that year.....ranked 17th overall (17th pass, 20th rush, 12th scoring) Giants were worse.....ranked 27th overall (29th pass, 19th rush, 25th scoring) Ravens and Giants both had fantastic QB play through their respective post seasons and very much support the "need a great QB to win" crowd. Don't confuse having a good day with being consistantly good.......and even then the Ravens let through 468 yards and 31 points. Where they great QBs before of after the SB win? I would argue most people didn't look at either one as great prior to the SB. And, further that neither one is consistently great, even good. My belief is that, it is the sum total of your team that wins, anyway you can get. There are of course certain levels of performance that are next to impossible to overcome. And, that there are really only 2 models. One is having a defense that is great, and supports adequate QB play, running game. The other is having great QB play/running game, and adequate defense. There is of course the rare circumstance of being superior at both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 would you disagree that the "losers" where supposed to have the better offenses and QB? Yes, but that wasn't the point I refuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yes, but that wasn't the point I refuted. understood. my poorly represented point earlier was that "defense" trumped the better QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 To moreproblemsthanOrton(quote wouldn't work), I was careful in my wording by saying "great QB play" not great QBs. I personally rate both Eli and Flacco as being streaky elite. They both have had periods(multiple for Eli) where they have produced the best QBing in the league. Luckily for the Giants and Ravens that coincided with the SB. I fully agree with your final paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 understood. my poorly represented point earlier was that "defense" trumped the better QB. But Green Bay beat the Steelers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 understood. my poorly represented point earlier was that "defense" trumped the better QB. No.....they really didn't. The 49ers scored 31 points and racked up 468 yards......and neither were good defenses. Surely you aren't saying that just because a team beats an opponent that has a good QB that said team has a good defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) If Defenses truly win games, then we need a good Offense to defeat the opponent's Defense. If Offenses truly win games, then we need a good Defense to defeat the opponent's Offense. Edited January 16, 2015 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Lost in this discussion was the notion of defense wins championships started back in the age of the NFL being mostly run oriented. The other adage used to be shut the run game down to win. The game has flipped. The run game has become secondary to an efficient passing game. The statistics really should be looked at by era. Hard to say where the dividing line is. Sadly, the Giants proved to the Bills that ball control, defense and a middling QB could win it all. The Bills clearly had a better QB and offense but if they did not have the ball there was little they could do. Look no further than Saturdays Pats/Ravens game for support of your claim. The Pats barely ran the ball and schematically favoured a pass defense over a rush defense in their win against Balt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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