BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 "Probably dozens" yet all you can name are the two that were already on our roster. Any others? Or we just making up fantasy players? Additionally, keeping Fitz on the team when he already had support from so many players while bringing in a rookie, is a sure fire way to divide the locker room and start a QB controversy. I agree Fitz would have been the better option, but he had to go. You can disagree all you want. The fact that the Bills had 2 CLEARLY better options under contract and on THEIR OWN QB-challenged roster says it all. If the argument is that the option had to be someone who you wouldn't have to trade anything whatsoever for, not even a reserve or a 7th round draft choice to acquire...then yeah, you've narrowed the dozens down a bit because there were probably 50 other loosely held better options on depth charts around the NFL than a handicapped man to play QB. I've been kind to Nix and Whaley. It was still a terrible decision to sign Kolb. But I've always contended that Kolb was brought in to be the guy who any healthy rookie QB could come in and beat out. A rung with a recognizable name to step on in the ascent to "earning" the starting job. It makes FAR MORE SENSE. And if Kolb was indeed supposed to start.....then why would it have mattered AT ALL if the better Fitz started instead? If the plan is to sit Manuel then don't you want your players to "support" the starting QB Ryan Fitzpatrick? I'm not saying that Buddy and Whaley's logic was THAT clueless and confused.......you guys are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I get that Kolb was a shell of a former player and a mistake to bring in, but I just dont remember any highly regarded vets being available. In this league, if a vet QB is available, it's for a good reason. If we brought in Player X instead of Kolb, he'd be posting about what a mistake it was to bring him in as well. Because all the QB FA options usually suck. According to Badol's logic, Dr. Dareustein would have been a better option than Kolb. And he might not be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Is there actually any evidence about this? My recollection is that Whaley was the guy in Manuel's corner. I'm not saying Marrone wasn't, but I've never seen any report about him gushing over Manuel during the draft and post-draft processes. They were all thrilled with EJ and at one point or another (after the Draft) Marrone, Whaley, and Nix all gushed about EJ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 And if Kolb was indeed supposed to start.....then why would it have mattered AT ALL if the better Fitz started instead? If the plan is to sit Manuel then don't you want your players to "support" the starting QB Ryan Fitzpatrick? I'm not saying that Buddy and Whaley's logic was THAT clueless and confused.......you guys are. Because they didn't want to pay him 7-8 million when they knew he wasn't going to be the answer as a starter at that point, not that he wouldn't start. At that point they didn't know who they would draft and when. They wanted him to cut it in half with incentives if he did well. He refused when the phone call came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Because they didn't want to pay him 7-8 million when they knew he wasn't going to be the answer as a starter at that point, not that he wouldn't start. At that point they didn't know who they would draft and when. They wanted him to cut it in half with incentives if he did well. He refused when the phone call came out. But that's just penny wise and pound foolish. Fitz wasn't making very much in relation to other starters. They were significantly under the cap too. I always thought that was dumb logic. Edited December 30, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 But that's just penny wise and pound foolish. Fitz wasn't making very much in relation to other starters. They were significantly under the cap too. I always thought that was dumb logic. I was mostly a Fitz fan. I'm not arguing whether it was smart or not. But that is why they did it, clearly. You don't mind paying a guy 7-8 million to be a starter to find out if he is a franchise guy. But most teams are probably not going to pay Fitz 7-8 million to be their starter knowing he is not a franchise guy. Which is why the Titans signed him to a two year deal for a total of 7.25 m, to battle Jake Locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraq Vet Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Great QB's don't grow on trees..... We have to be both good at scouting and very lucky. ex. Tom Brady, Russel Wilson.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Every HC worries about the talent the FO will bring him. It goes with the job. At least Whaley & Nix got Marrone a lot of talent on the D side of the ball. First time NFL HCs don't have much say at all if any over personnel. That is earned, Marrone has not earned that. Chain of command and stay in your swim lane Marrone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Great QB's don't grow on trees..... We have to be both good at scouting and very lucky. ex. Tom Brady, Russel Wilson.... TJ Graham tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 TJ Graham tho. The really bad thing about that was he traded up to get TJ, no one thought that TJ was a steal or had a great chance of being a top flight WR, and Nix actually did like Wilson a lot. We did need a speed WR though. Key word being "WR," which TJ wasn't. I didn't notice him a lot in college at all, but it's kind of hard to believe that the scouts and Nix didn't see that he couldn't track the ball in the air well, or jump at the right times. That is not stuff you forget to do as a pro. You either have those two skills or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm curious about the tension between Whaley and Marrone. I didn't think much of it before, but I wonder how Brandon fits into it as well. There is a bit in an article about Orton's retirment that perked my curiosity: Source: http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/12/kyle_orton_retirement_surprises_doug_whaley_doug_marrone_buffalo_bills_in_a_bind.html It may be nothing, but it seemed strange to me. Given the source, it may not even be true. It does seem that there is a disconnect between the two though. there have been more than a couple moments this year - the blowup at practice, spat at the preseason game, the "go ahead and fire me" comment that was rumored, KTD sharing that whaley was a bit surprised by the direction of the offense, the "i went into his office and told him EJ was benched" comment (just seemed over the top specific to publicly assert his authority), the "im not benching kyle unless someone makes me" also seemed pretty barbed towards saying he was in charge and daring anyone to push the issue publicly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The really bad thing about that was he traded up to get TJ, no one thought that TJ was a steal or had a great chance of being a top flight WR, and Nix actually did like Wilson a lot. We did need a speed WR though. Key word being "WR," which TJ wasn't. I didn't notice him a lot in college at all, but it's kind of hard to believe that the scouts and Nix didn't see that he couldn't track the ball in the air well, or jump at the right times. That is not stuff you forget to do as a pro. You either have those two skills or don't. All's I've got is a bucketful of sighs in reply to that one, KTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 there have been more than a couple moments this year - the blowup at practice, spat at the preseason game, the "go ahead and fire me" comment that was rumored, KTD sharing that whaley was a bit surprised by the direction of the offense, the "i went into his office and told him EJ was benched" comment (just seemed over the top specific to publicly assert his authority), the "im not benching kyle unless someone makes me" also seemed pretty barbed towards saying he was in charge and daring anyone to push the issue publicly.... Mountains out of mole hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here is one of my problems with the whole organization rotoworld on the Chris Williams signing Williams received a head-scratching four-year, $13.5 million contract from the Bills this offseason. The contract almost guarantees he is the Week 1 starter at left guard. Williams graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 74 guard out of 81 qualifiers last season. They knew OL was a big problem, there were better options and the Bills had the money- now I can understand them not wanting to saddle themselves with a big contract that may distort the salary structure but they said they were all in this year - that's the Watkins trade and pulling EJ for Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Mountains out of mole hills. make of it what you will. i was just stating that there have been a lot of public instances where we may look back after and say "well, yea in hindsight clearly there was actual tension" i think between all those incidents, and reading between the lines of some of the connected posters here -- theres enough red flags flying to atleast note that there may be head butting. whether it ends up being something MAJOR, or we start winning fast and it fades away - we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Here is one of my problems with the whole organization rotoworld on the Chris Williams signing They knew OL was a big problem, there were better options and the Bills had the money- now I can understand them not wanting to saddle themselves with a big contract that may distort the salary structure but they said they were all in this year - that's the Watkins trade and pulling EJ for Orton. + 1000 in·ex·pli·ca·ble + 1000 in·ex·pli·ca·ble I think they get worked by agents into believing there is competition out there? Horrible history of O line signing. Edited December 30, 2014 by San-O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 make of it what you will. i was just stating that there have been a lot of public instances where we may look back after and say "well, yea in hindsight clearly there was actual tension" i think between all those incidents, and reading between the lines of some of the connected posters here -- theres enough red flags flying to atleast note that there may be head butting. whether it ends up being something MAJOR, or we start winning fast and it fades away - we will see. There should be head butting. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/174690-not-surprising-to-me-that-marrone-would-be-angry-with-whaley/page__st__20#entry3396766 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 There should be head butting. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/174690-not-surprising-to-me-that-marrone-would-be-angry-with-whaley/page__st__20#entry3396766 Write it however you please - it's easy to turn mountains into molehills too. I don't vlaim to know one way or the other but I think in this case it's more strained than you do but probably not unworkable. I do not think its disagreements as much as marrone trying to grab some power/autonomy which can be a bad situation. Additionally disagreeing on a player is different than disagreeing on a philosophy and I think there are hints of that. Hopefully they get on the same page on the big picture and can fight over details is my take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Write it however you please - it's easy to turn mountains into molehills too. I don't vlaim to know one way or the other but I think in this case it's more strained than you do but probably not unworkable. I do not think its disagreements as much as marrone trying to grab some power/autonomy which can be a bad situation. Additionally disagreeing on a player is different than disagreeing on a philosophy and I think there are hints of that. Hopefully they get on the same page on the big picture and can fight over details is my take Fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Fair enough! Cheers! It's entirely possible your take is right too - I'm just connecting the dots I see so far. Edited December 30, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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