Building a team: defense, ST, and then offense?

[boyst]

We are not far from contention. A young back may be needed, a new interior OL and a RT. I want a youngster at OC or OG in the draft in the first two picks and a vet at RT to look at as depth. They may mean keeping Urbik or Pears - both FA's.

 

The guy needs a QB. Period.

it wouldn't hurt Edited December 15, 2014 by jboyst62

[Kelly the Dog]

Until I see or hear what the context was, I call bullschit. Anybody with half a brain knows that building a team is NEVER a linear process, but for those that have missed the first thousand times I've posted Polian's formula, here is the importance of position if when building a team from scratch:

 

1.) Quarterback

2.) pass rushing DE

3.) Left OT

4.) RB

5.) WR

 

Nothing about the game's evolution in the last 20 years has changed that. Polian was right back then and he's right today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

A top CB is a little more importance over the last 20 years than it used to be, but otherwise agreed.

[JC2002]

Until I see or hear what the context was, I call bullschit. Anybody with half a brain knows that building a team is NEVER a linear process, but for those that have missed the first thousand times I've posted Polian's formula, here is the importance of position if when building a team from scratch:

 

1.) Quarterback

2.) pass rushing DE

3.) Left OT

4.) RB

5.) WR

 

Nothing about the game's evolution in the last 20 years has changed that. Polian was right back then and he's right today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Actually he was wrong then and hes wrong now the history of the game says as much

[Phil Hansen Forever]

The guy needs a QB. Period.

Tebow and Flutie are still available and if we ask really nicely, we can probably drag Billie Joe Hobart out of retirement...Bledsoe too.

[The Jokeman]

Maybe 10 to 15 years ago.

 

Not any more. The league nowadays is offense oriented. If Marrone really thinks that he is way behind the times.

 

I think this year is showing that with an above average D you can almost win any game your in. Of course it does count on the O doing more than it has and think if we can shore up the O with some better Gs and another threat in the passing game (see at TE and/or in the red zone) we could turn the corner.

[mrags]

Maybe 10 to 15 years ago.

 

Not any more. The league nowadays is offense oriented. If Marrone really thinks that he is way behind the times.

well, without this top notch defense, we would probably only have 5-6 wins at this point this year. So technically your wrong.

 

Not to mention the fact that if offenses are really the way to win games... The wouldn't it be equally important to build a better defense to stop opposing offenses? It works whatever way you want to make an argument for generally.

 

But the facts are this:

In almost every Super Bowl in recent memory, the team with the better defenses win the games.

 

Which is why the Seahawks won last year, why the Giants beat the Pats twice. Why the Steelers beat the Seahawks and Cardinals. The list could go on and on. The last SBs won by teams with superior offenses would be the Saints and Colts and after that it's been a while.

[The Jokeman]

It means we're going offense and needs in the draft, that's what it means. So we'll get a TE as our second round pick then a RB (first one of the board), then more O-line.

 

WR's should improve greatly going into next season, them all having a years worth of XP under their belt (Woods 2), hopefully the O-line guys will get it together during the offseason. I expect a battle for starting QB between Orton and EJ, with Orton coming out on top, we might even grab a big QB in FA if one is available. And hopefully a new OC.

 

If Orton feels he can start next year I think he stays but I could see him stepping aside if he isn't starting. Do I like the way Orton has played? No but I don't see anyone better than him available unless we make a move to pursue Sam Bradford. Though if Orton is let go because of money and/or we want a QB competition than I could see us going after someone like Christian Ponder as an UFA to be our veteran guy who could compete/mentor EJ and also wouldn't be shocked if we draft a QB in the 5th Round since we have 2 picks in that round.

Edited December 15, 2014 by The Jokeman

[Kelly the Dog]

With a great defensive performance, there was a good chance we would have lost today. We had a great defensive performance before the last series, which made it a fabulous defensive performance. Just ridiculously good considering how bad our offense is.

 

Our offense is as bad as the defense is good. Putrid. Orton was awful, but coaching is just as bad. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's both.

[JC2002]

Marrone was quoted by the announcers as saying the way he builds his team is defense, special teams, and then offense in that order. If we get to 9 or 10 wins are we doomed to see this offense again next season? If so, we're going to be stuck in the mud, spinning our tires again. The offense is horrendous, and it's holding this team back.

 

I hope Pegula does whatever is necessary to keep this D together (including Schwartz). I hope to hell somebody in he organization puts an offense together and finds us a freaking QB.

 

The offense is not holding the team back YOU are accelerating the time from of the teams development to fit your own needs .

 

In todays game once you decide that your receiving core will all be under 23 you are deciding it will take some time for your offense to catch up to your defense and are willing to wait on it while they get experience . The failure so far comes from the Oline as you have to figure out why you from from top 5 to bottom 5 . If you can figure that out then the offense can certainly compliment the defense next season

[The Jokeman]

We are not far from contention. A young back may be needed, a new interior OL and a RT. I want a youngster at OC or OG in the draft in the first two picks and a vet at RT to look at as depth. They may mean keeping Urbik or Pears - both FA's.

 

it wouldn't hurt

 

Pears has been a horrible OG and forsee him being shown the door. Urbik isn't great but think he's solid and/or a depth guy better than Richardson right now so be okay retaining him and adding another vet to the mix.

 

The offense is not holding the team back YOU are accelerating the time from of the teams development to fit your own needs .

 

In todays game once you decide that your receiving core will all be under 23 you are deciding it will take some time for your offense to catch up to your defense and are willing to wait on it while they get experience . The failure so far comes from the Oline as you have to figure out why you from from top 5 to bottom 5 . If you can figure that out then the offense can certainly compliment the defense next season

 

Robert Woods will be in his 3rd year next year and that's the year most WRs finally "get it" and have no qualms with him and Sammy as our two top WRs. Hogan as a 3rd is sketchy and like to add a vet to the mix but it's gotta be an affordable guy. Someone like Nate Washington should be available and think wouldn't cost to much to have. I'm not sold on Goodwin or Thompson. So here's my proposed WR core next year

 

Sammy Watkins

Robert Woods

Nate Washington

Chris Hogan

Marcus Thigpen

Marcus Easley

Edited December 15, 2014 by The Jokeman

[boyst]

Until I see or hear what the context was, I call bullschit. Anybody with half a brain knows that building a team is NEVER a linear process, but for those that have missed the first thousand times I've posted Polian's formula, here is the importance of position if when building a team from scratch:

 

1.) Quarterback

2.) pass rushing DE

3.) Left OT

4.) RB

5.) WR

 

Nothing about the game's evolution in the last 20 years has changed that. Polian was right back then and he's right today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

History of the game disagree. Not all of the top QB's are top picks. You just need a top QB. Some patience. And give him a chance. Romo, Rivers, Brees, Tannehll and Wilson almost did not have a chance. Tom Brady did not have a chance in hell until he got luckiest person in the world, ever title.

 

The best teams are built on more then a QB and those that are end up like Atlanta - top QB. Top WR. Good RB's. Solid LT. Worthwhile DE. Or new Orleans or many other teams. Polian is and always was wrong.

[The Jokeman]

That's great and all, but who's going to be our QB? Sure, the Bills will win some ball games, maybe even challenge for a wild-card spot, but without a QB they're not going any further.

 

Orton would remain my QB next year or if we don't want to pay him the $5m than give Ponder a $1m deal to prove himself and/or to compete. It's not ideal but he's the best guy as with that plan I see Manuel and Keeton as guys waiting in the wings.

[Niagara Dude]

You need a more explosive running back and QB who can at least complete a few good throws. Right now Orton is not even doing that.Either way the team is much closer to being a true winner.

 

Needs-

Explosive running back (need to see more 20 yard runs)

Play making TE- Could be Gray

Guard

Improved QB play (just get someone who complete basic pass plays and can pick-up yards with his feet)

[Niagara Dude]

You need a more explosive running back and QB who can at least complete a few good throws. Right now Orton is not even doing that.Either way the team is much closer to being a true winner.

 

Needs-

Explosive running back (need to see more 20 yard runs)

Play making TE- Could be Gray

Guard

Improved QB play (just get someone who complete basic pass plays and can pick-up yards with his feet)

[K-9]

History of the game disagree. Not all of the top QB's are top picks. You just need a top QB. Some patience. And give him a chance. Romo, Rivers, Brees, Tannehll and Wilson almost did not have a chance. Tom Brady did not have a chance in hell until he got luckiest person in the world, ever title.

 

The best teams are built on more then a QB and those that are end up like Atlanta - top QB. Top WR. Good RB's. Solid LT. Worthwhile DE. Or new Orleans or many other teams. Polian is and always was wrong.

 

You managed to completely miss the spirit of the post. Perhaps I wasn't articulate enough. Polian prefaced his remarks by saying teams are always in various stages, it's never linear, but for sustained success you needed these positions solidified first and foremost.

 

Where do I say a QB needs to be a top draft choice? That position needs to be solidified first and foremost.In other words, if QB ISN'T solidified, your chances of success are not as high. When Polian held court 20 some odd years ago and gave the press and others of us in the room these insights, he merely sought to impart what teams need more than anything else, all things being equal. That has not changed.

 

Oh, but it's PASSING league now more than ever so a CB HAS to be added to the list before others? No. That just raises the importance of pass rushing DEs and OTs. There is no such thing as a shutdown corner in today's game anyway. There ARE defensive ends you STILL have to account for before each snap and the OTs needed to neutralize them. CBs, even in today's age, simply don't play close enough to the ball.

 

Polian was right.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 15, 2014 by K-9

[San-O]

THAT one is certainly going to come back to BITE him!!!

[boyst]

Where do I say a QB needs to be a top draft choice. When Polian held court 20 some odd years ago and gave the press and others of us in the room these insights, he merely sought to impart what teams need more than anything else, all things being equal. That has not changed.

 

Oh, but it's PASSING league now more than ever so a CB HAS to be added to the list before others? No. That just raises the importance of pass rushing DEs and OTs. There is not such thing as a shutdown corner in today's game anyway. There ARE defensive ends you STILL have to account for before each snap and the OTs needed to neutralize them. CBs, even in today's age, simply don't play close enough to the ball.

 

Polian was right.

 

GO BILLS!!!

alright so you're saying we need to find a QB? We have tried many times and places to find one. There has not been an offer or opportunity out there for a QB. I mean, they say Cutler is there. But thatd be like Bradham+Manuel for Cutler. And I'd make them offer a 3rd to consider that.

[Kelly the Dog]

You managed to completely miss the spirit of the post. Perhaps I wasn't articulate enough. Polian prefaced his remarks by saying teams are always in various stages, it's never linear, but for sustained success you needed these positions solidified first and foremost.

 

Where do I say a QB needs to be a top draft choice? That position needs to be solidified first and foremost.In other words, if QB ISN'T solidified, your chances of success are not as high. When Polian held court 20 some odd years ago and gave the press and others of us in the room these insights, he merely sought to impart what teams need more than anything else, all things being equal. That has not changed.

 

Oh, but it's PASSING league now more than ever so a CB HAS to be added to the list before others? No. That just raises the importance of pass rushing DEs and OTs. There is no such thing as a shutdown corner in today's game anyway. There ARE defensive ends you STILL have to account for before each snap and the OTs needed to neutralize them. CBs, even in today's age, simply don't play close enough to the ball.

 

Polian was right.

 

GO BILLS!!!

The Seahawks have the best defense and the have great CBs. The Pats have a good D and great CB. The Broncos have 1-2 great ones. The Cards have a great D and a great CB. The Ravens defenses that were great had great CBs.

[PO'14]

I heard that and got goosebumps...THERE IS A PLAN! At the same time...the announcer said that Fred Jackson got many yards after CARRY!!! HA HA! He meant CONTACT!

[K-9]

alright so you're saying we need to find a QB? We have tried many times and places to find one. There has not been an offer or opportunity out there for a QB. I mean, they say Cutler is there. But thatd be like Bradham+Manuel for Cutler. And I'd make them offer a 3rd to consider that.

 

I would think our lack of QB play is obvious. But that was never my point relative to this thread. Without context of his remarks, I find it hard to believe Marrone would say this is how you build a team; defense, special teams, offense. If he DID say that, he's a phuckin' idiot. When I read that, I thought Polian's opinions on building a team were relevant to the discussion. I STILL find his ideology to be correct.

 

And yes, we need a QB.

 

GO BILLS!!!