Ray Rice Wins His Appeal; Immediately Eligible to Play

[Rob's House]

 

Fair enough. I have a problem with the legal system treating it that way, if that's truly the case. If someone assaulted my mom, wife, or daughters, with ironclad evidence to the fact -- and to the pretty cold-hearted nature of the incident -- I'd want him to face some prison time, period.

 

But your points are well-enough made.

 

I simply want society to look at this differently than it apparently does, whether it's the gas station attendant or the high-profile athlete.

 

If someone assaulted my mom, sister, etc. I'd want to break his legs, but let's look at the reality.

 

Say your 25 year old daughter is in Janay Rice's situation, and she's staying with the guy regardless of how you feel about it. Do you want her husband to be kept out of a job?

[3rdand12]

I have been reading this whole thing from the beginning till post #60.

now for #63

Firstly, you gentlemen have really shown a good dialogue and had me thinking pretty seriously at each point presented.

Well done indeed all !

I have agreements with each fully developed argument , but without my opinion needed i would like to thanks you guys for the past half hour of pleasantness over a sore subject.

Edited November 29, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

If someone assaulted my mom, sister, etc. I'd want to break his legs, but let's look at the reality.

 

Say your 25 year old daughter is in Janay Rice's situation, and she's staying with the guy regardless of how you feel about it. Do you want her husband to be kept out of a job?

If she is doing it because she loves him genuinely, no. If she is doing it just for the money, yes.

[3rdand12]

If someone assaulted my mom, sister, etc. I'd want to break his legs, but let's look at the reality.

 

Say your 25 year old daughter is in Janay Rice's situation, and she's staying with the guy regardless of how you feel about it. Do you want her husband to be kept out of a job?

Its obvious. Because i have three daughters

I have him taken out.

She will be better for it . My daughters are 23 25 26.

I make this clear with each man they meet. Touch her in anger i have no choices.

[Rob's House]

 

If she is doing it because she loves him genuinely, no. If she is doing it just for the money, yes.

 

Good answer.

 

Its obvious. Because i have three daughters

I have him taken out.

She will be better for it . My daughters are 23 25 26.

I make this clear with each man they meet. Touch her in anger i have no choices.

 

I have a daughter so I understand and share this feeling, but unless it were an ongoing thing I don't think it's the right response.

[3rdand12]

Good answer.

 

 

 

I have a daughter so I understand and share this feeling, but unless it were an ongoing thing I don't think it's the right response.

Like i said , it would never happen twice in my family.

I always hold out hope that people can change for the better.

But because we witnessed it on video instead of hearsay , I think the woman has her own serious issues.

Thats a story for another day though.

as i just there sure are a couple ways to look at this whole thing.

The one common denominator that we can all agree on Rob is that nothing good happened here.

I think domestic violence in the NFL spotlight will soon fade.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

Rice will be joining the CTE crowd in a couple years, I am afraid. We should say our prayers for all concerned.

Edited November 29, 2014 by North Buffalo1

[JohnC]

"Adjudicating labor disputes", such as they are, is clearly spelled out in the CBA and all power Goodell has is given willingly to him by the NFLPA.

 

No one has suggested otherwise. He clearly has the authority to make judgments on disciplinary issues. What he doesn't have the authority to do as the all powerful sheriff on discipline proceedings is blatantly lie at the expense of a player so that he could rebound from his own poor judgment. My understanding is that he is a lawyer. Lawyers are officers of the court. He should have his law license suspended for corrupt behavior in a semi-legal proceedings.

 

Let me ask you this: what would her been the outcome if Goodell stuck with 2 games no matter that the video would later come out. You know, let's say he ignored the public outcry and even more monumental PR disaster for the owners if he just said "hey, sorry everyone, but this is a 2 game offense in the NFL, that's how we view spousal abuse".

 

What he should have done is acknowledge that he used poor judgment and then changed the policy for domestic cases making it more severe. Another option is he could have placed Rice on a paid status like he did with the Peterson case. What he shouldn't have done as the arbitrator determined is lie in order to cover his corrupt ass.

 

You cannot be serious that that is how the owners wanted him to represent them-- but that was his only other choice when the video came out. There is no doubt that they told him to sacrifice Rice. They know it would put Goodell in a bind. they had to know (the owner of the Ravens absolutely knew) Goodell would have to lie to justify the increase in suspension.

 

No one told him to lie. That is not factual. He lied on his own volution to save his ass from the torrent of public outrage that he deserved. He should have simply acknowledged his poor judgment and then work on a more responsible formal response to domestic issues.

 

And now you're pretending the owners are shocked, shocked! That Goodell has been caught in a lie? Come on, John..

 

I don't give a dam what the owners think. It is clear that the face of the NFL, their representiave, is a self-serving fraud and is corrupt. Because of his corrupt behavior there will probably be a change on how disciplinary matters will be handled.

 

And I don't care if Rice gets 2 games, 6 or every game as a suspension. sure, let him come back to the NFL, he's hardly the worst man playing the game right now. But your overwrought attack on Goodell fails to acknowledge the big picture. This will quickly fade away-- and I bet this will be a bonus for Goodell and the league. In the future, these violent domestic abuse cases in the future will be handled by some blue ribbon panel of individuals picked by the NFL and no doubt will be stacked with people who would not be inclined to give the next abuser the usual 2 games. I would such a panel filled with women's rights advocates and spousal abuse experts would take the next Ray Rice and put him straight out of the league--and there won't be any crying over the "imperious" Goodell at that point. Ol' Rog (and his bosses) will just kick back and let that side show do its thing, completely relieved.

 

To be honest I don't give a dam about Rice. I am a strong believer that the integrity of the process is more important than the outcome of any individual case. When the process is corrupt and the person making the discipline determination is exposed to be a craven then I have problems with the system. You may not believe in fairness but I do.

 

No owner has even suggested Goodell should be or even might be fired over this. The obvious reason is that they know all of what went on and they understand that it costs $44 million a year to pay for their bodyguard.

 

You are stating the obvious.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Ray Ray is back, but who would want him? He'd be right for Al Davis but Al's not around anymore.

[CSBill]

 

 

No one has suggested otherwise. He clearly has the authority to make judgments on disciplinary issues. What he doesn't have the authority to do as the all powerful sheriff on discipline proceedings is blatantly lie at the expense of a player so that he could rebound from his own poor judgment. My understanding is that he is a lawyer. Lawyers are officers of the court. He should have his law license suspended for corrupt behavior in a semi-legal proceedings.

 

 

 

What he should have done is acknowledge that he used poor judgment and then changed the policy for domestic cases making it more severe. Another option is he could have placed Rice on a paid status like he did with the Peterson case. What he shouldn't have done as the arbitrator determined is lie in order to cover his corrupt ass.

 

 

 

No one told him to lie. That is not factual. He lied on his own volution to save his ass from the torrent of public outrage that he deserved. He should have simply acknowledged his poor judgment and then work on a more responsible formal response to domestic issues.

 

 

 

I don't give a dam what the owners think. It is clear that the face of the NFL, their representiave, is a self-serving fraud and is corrupt. Because of his corrupt behavior there will probably be a change on how disciplinary matters will be handled.

 

 

 

To be honest I don't give a dam about Rice. I am a strong believer that the integrity of the process is more important than the outcome of any individual case. When the process is corrupt and the person making the discipline determination is exposed to be a craven then I have problems with the system. You may not believe in fairness but I do.

 

 

 

You are stating the obvious.

 

I don't think you could be more wrong, but then again, maybe you have more law school than I do?

 

From my perspective, Goodell is just what this league needs. Every profession has moral obligations/expectations, all he is doing is his job by imposing them wear needed. If the players don't like it, then they can bring it up in collective bargaining, or, go find another job.

 

Playing in the NFL is not their right; like in any profession, it's a privilege. Their rights are not violated when the ownership of the business decides to hold them to standards of conduct. They are always free to go find another job, correct? If Ray doesn't like it, oh well. No one is saying he can't work, but like every other business in this country, RG is saying, if you work for us, you will abide by these rules, and evidently, he has the right to modify the rules as he sees a need to do so.

 

I for one, hope Ray never plays another down in the NFL.

 

.

 

The irony of course is the guy who beat his wife unconscious looks like the sympathetic figure to a certain type of football fan who reserve their ire instead for the guy who tried to punish him.

 

This is exactly what irritates me the most, Ray Rice is no victim here--he was the perpetrator of a crime. And because he was an NFL athlete, he was treated very differently than anyone else in his situation would have been.

Edited November 29, 2014 by CSBill

[JohnC]

I don't think you could be more wrong, but then again, maybe you have more law school than I do?

 

From my perspective, Goodell is just what this league needs. Every profession has moral obligations/expectations, all he is doing is his job by imposing them wear needed. If the players don't like it, then they can bring it up in collective bargaining, or, go find another job.

 

Playing in the NFL is not their right; like in any profession, it's a privilege. Their rights are not violated when the ownership of the business decides to hold them to standards of conduct. They are always free to go find another job, correct? If Ray doesn't like it, oh well. No one is saying he can't work, but like every other business in this country, RG is saying, if you work for us, you will abide by these rules, and evidently, he has the right to modify the rules as he sees a need to do so.

 

I for one, hope Ray never plays another down in the NFL.

 

 

 

This is exactly what irritates me the most, Ray Rice is no victim here--he wax the perpetrator of a crime.

 

The player and his union brought the issue to the arbitrator. The commissioner was thoroughly repudiated and Ray Rice's rights were vindicated. That is not to say that what he did was right.

 

Roger Goodell is not representing the NFL in a very exemplary manner. He lied to save his ass in a quasi-legal setting at the expense of someone who had to appear before him for a fair hearing.

 

The more serious issue has little to do with the Ray Rice's of the world. They can be handled with fairness. The real issue is that the disciplinary process was corrupted by a person who blatantly lied in order to save his own corrupt arse.

 

You don't have to go to law school to recognize that Charles Goodell who has an immense amount of authority in the NFL acted on behalf of his own self-interest and in dispicable manner. He is the one who should be banned from the league because he damaged the integrity of the process which is more important than an individual case.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

The player and his union brought the issue to the arbitrator. The commissioner was thoroughly repudiated and Ray Rice's rights were vindicated. That is not to say that what he did was right.

 

Roger Goodell is not representing the NFL in a very exemplary manner. He lied to save his ass in a quasi-legal setting at the expense of someone who had to appear before him for a fair hearing.

 

The more serious issue has little to do with the Ray Rice's of the world. They can be handled with fairness. The real issue is that the disciplinary process was corrupted by a person who blatantly lied in order to save his own corrupt arse.

 

You don't have to go to law school to recognize that Charles Goodell who has an immense amount of authority in the NFL acted on behalf of his own self-interest and in dispicable manner. He is the one who should be banned from the league because he damaged the integrity of the process which is more important than an individual case.

I would bet anything you have no idea whatsoever about what the NFL owners or legal counsel told Goodell about what they want from him, before this mess, at any time during this mess, or now or for the future. And you're acting like he is a lone wolf. Overall, I personally think that Goodell oversteps his bounds, and is part of the problem. But like the Buffalo News ownership and management loves Jerry Sullivan because he is great at his job, I would bet that the NFL owners think that Goodell is great.

[JohnC]

I would bet anything you have no idea whatsoever about what the NFL owners or legal counsel told Goodell about what they want from him, before this mess, at any time during this mess, or now or for the future. And you're acting like he is a lone wolf. Overall, I personally think that Goodell oversteps his bounds, and is part of the problem. But like the Buffalo News ownership and management loves Jerry Sullivan because he is great at his job, I would bet that the NFL owners think that Goodell is great.

 

It doesn't matter what the owners told him to say or do or what his legal advisors told him to say or do. It's irrelevant. His testimoney is his testimoney. His actions are his actions.

His testimoney and actions were thoroughly repudiated by the arbitrator.

 

When you are in a position of authority as he was in the disciplinary process you are the one held accountable for the process. Not the people hiding behind the curtain whispering in your ear. Your lies are your lies not the people on the sidelines sending you untraceable signals.

 

It's understood that Goodell primarily acts on behalf of the owners, the people who pay him. That's not a new relevation.

Edited November 29, 2014 by JohnC

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

It doesn't matter what the owners told him to say or do or what his legal advisors told him to say or do. It's irrelevant. His testimoney is his testimoney. His actions are his actions.

His testimoney and actions were thoroughly repudiated by the arbitrator.

 

When you are in a position of authority as he was in the disciplinary process you are the one held accountable for the process. Not the people hiding behind the curtain whispering in your ear. Your lies are your lies not the people on the sidelines sending you untraceable signals.

Of course. But half your arguments to me have little to do with that. The NFL may want him to look like it was all his fault so those scumbags don't look bad. They may have told him to do anything so we don't look bad. They may have instructed him to deny it in hopes it would blow over. You're acting and saying things that make it sound like he did this all on his own, when it may very well be that most of the time he was acting as his employers and lawyers instructed him to do, and not completely on his own. Lawyers lie all the time. Their job at times is to lie.

 

When you are commissioner you work for the league and its 32 owners. You are not King, although sometimes he acts it. As I said, they are likely thrilled with the job he is doing still. I wouldn't doubt if most of them thought it was great, and think now, oh well we got caught but I'd do it again the same way the next time. That's how big companies are at times, and they win a lot. It doesn't make them right. I hate it. But it's the way of the world, and you're making this out to be all about Goodell like he runs the league and makes all decisions himself for himself.

 

I used to like Goodell and now I don't like him at all after he tried to stick his snoot into everything and be super cop. But he didn't do it in a vacuum, the owners would have stopped him a long, long time ago if they didn't want that, too.

 

And in this mess, do you really think that the most powerful owners of the league are sitting back just watching the Ray Rice crisis play out and then calling each other up and saying, "Wow, that Goodell dude really told a whopper of a lie. What was he thinking?"

[JohnC]

Of course. But half your arguments to me have little to do with that. The NFL may want him to look like it was all his fault so those scumbags don't look bad. They may have told him to do anything so we don't look bad. They may have instructed him to deny it in hopes it would blow over. You're acting and saying things that make it sound like he did this all on his own, when it may very well be that most of the time he was acting as his employers and lawyers instructed him to do, and not completely on his own. Lawyers lie all the time. Their job at times is to lie.

 

When you are commissioner you work for the league and its 32 owners. You are not King, although sometimes he acts it. As I said, they are likely thrilled with the job he is doing still. I wouldn't doubt if most of them thought it was great, and think now, oh well we got caught but I'd do it again the same way the next time. That's how big companies are at times, and they win a lot. It doesn't make them right. I hate it. But it's the way of the world, and you're making this out to be all about Goodell like he runs the league and makes all decisions himself for himself.

 

I used to like Goodell and now I don't like him at all after he tried to stick his snoot into everything and be super cop. But he didn't do it in a vacuum, the owners would have stopped him a long, long time ago if they didn't want that, too.

 

And in this mess, do you really think that the most powerful owners of the league are sitting back just watching the Ray Rice crisis play out and then calling each other up and saying, "Wow, that Goodell dude really told a whopper of a lie. What was he thinking?"

 

You make a lot of claims. Show me an article that suggests that the owners told Goodell to lie in the second Rice hearing.

 

As I stated in many prior postings it is understood that Goodell acts on behalf of the owners and not the players. Sometimes it is impossible to challenge and discipline the system as it is established yet that doesn't mean that individuals acting on behalf of the system shouldn't be held accountable for one's illicit behavior. Goodell clearly lied in an arbitration hearing. He should be held accountable.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

You make a lot of claims. Show me an article that suggests that the owners told Goodell to lie in the second Rice hearing.

 

As I stated in many prior postings it is understood that Goodell acts on behalf of the owners and not the players. Sometimes it is impossible to challenge and discipline the system as it is established yet that doesn't mean that individuals acting on behalf of the system shouldn't be held accountable for one's illicit behavior. Goodell clearly lied in an arbitration hearing. He should be held accountable.

I never said they did. What does the word "may" in front of a series of questions mean to you.

 

He is being held accountable in the court of public opinion. He's getting murdered. I have no idea what they told him, all I am saying is that he very likely didn't do it on his own. Everything the league does is EXTREMELY orchestrated. Despite a lot of fan protest, because fans B word about everything, the NfL is enormously successful at their PR machine. They have made a series of monumental blunders as a whole over the last year or two and yet they will continue to thrive and get bigger and bigger.

 

He is a PR guy for all intents and purposes. The people that hire him, not the people that he talks to in his PR job, are the ones that will hold him accountable. And IMO because of who these guys are, he won't even be slapped on the wrist, he'll be slapped on the back for doing a good job for us and making it look like it was all you.

[Mr. WEO]

No one has suggested otherwise. He clearly has the authority to make judgments on disciplinary issues. What he doesn't have the authority to do as the all powerful sheriff on discipline proceedings is blatantly lie at the expense of a player so that he could rebound from his own poor judgment. My understanding is that he is a lawyer. Lawyers are officers of the court. He should have his law license suspended for corrupt behavior in a semi-legal proceedings.

 

 

 

What he should have done is acknowledge that he used poor judgment and then changed the policy for domestic cases making it more severe. Another option is he could have placed Rice on a paid status like he did with the Peterson case. What he shouldn't have done as the arbitrator determined is lie in order to cover his corrupt ass.

 

 

 

No one told him to lie. That is not factual. He lied on his own volution to save his ass from the torrent of public outrage that he deserved. He should have simply acknowledged his poor judgment and then work on a more responsible formal response to domestic issues.

 

 

 

I don't give a dam what the owners think. It is clear that the face of the NFL, their representiave, is a self-serving fraud and is corrupt. Because of his corrupt behavior there will probably be a change on how disciplinary matters will be handled.

 

 

 

To be honest I don't give a dam about Rice. I am a strong believer that the integrity of the process is more important than the outcome of any individual case. When the process is corrupt and the person making the discipline determination is exposed to be a craven then I have problems with the system. You may not believe in fairness but I do.

 

 

 

You are stating the obvious.

 

You have it backwards: he lied in response to the public outrage over the video and his first suspension. His initial judgement wasn't "poor", he gave the standard suspension for this crime.

 

He's not a lawyer.

 

Look, everyone in the world knew that Rice would have the suspension reversed--it was a clear violation of the suspension process. This outcome satisfies everyone. The NFL, in the heat of the moment, was able to toss Rice to the bloodthirsty masses and admit that his initial 2 game penalty was woefully inadequate for this criminal act against women. The NFLPA gets a rare "win" and Rice is allowed to re-enter the league.

 

I am convinced that Goodell and every owner in the league knew that this ruling would find for Rice....and that they really don't care. They are able to demonstrate a newfound sensitivity to this issue to the world and now they can put the whole thing back in the box--a net win. They come out of this unscathed, and all it cost was Goodell taking it up the hieney a bit by guys who are predisposed to knocking the guy anyway.

 

A win for the NFL. Play ball.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

You have it backwards: he lied in response to the public outrage over the video and his first suspension. His initial judgement wasn't "poor", he gave the standard suspension for this crime.

 

He's not a lawyer.

 

Look, everyone in the world knew that Rice would have the suspension reversed--it was a clear violation of the suspension process. This outcome satisfies everyone. The NFL, in the heat of the moment, was able to toss Rice to the bloodthirsty masses and admit that his initial 2 game penalty was woefully inadequate for this criminal act against women. The NFLPA gets a rare "win" and Rice is allowed to re-enter the league.

 

I am convinced that Goodell and every owner in the league knew that this ruling would find for Rice....and that they really don't care. They are able to demonstrate a newfound sensitivity to this issue to the world and now they can put the whole thing back in the box--a net win. They come out of this unscathed, and all it cost was Goodell taking it up the hieney a bit by guys who are predisposed to knocking the guy anyway.

 

A win for the NFL. Play ball.

Good take. that's probably true.

[Mango]

@sportspickle: Breaking: a washed-up RB who is a societal pariah is available for any NFL team to sign!

 

Oj is out?

[KellyTough12]

The NFL has a very short memory for first offenders. Vick, R. Lewis, Burress, Stallworth, Jamal Lewis, Moss, and on, and on...

 

He'll get a chance either by the end of the season or next. If a team is making a playoff push and their RB goes down, he'll get a call.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if his agent hasn't gotten calls already. If he's in shape, I could easily see teams with good PR departments taking a low cost flier. Cowboys, Patriots, Jets, Falcons, Bucs....teams always need good RB's.