Kyle Orton Haters

[section122]

Bills fans expectations of QB play have morphed into the unrealistic realm. We expect our QB to be perfect. No incompletions, no turnovers, no flaws of any kind, plus they have to win games single-handedly. And when we do have a guy who throws almost 300yds a game, makes thows downfield, completes 70% and has two last-second game-winning drives we don't even notice because we are too obsessed with his flaws. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad and typical.

 

I guarantee if Orton was doing this elsewhere we'd all be pissed the Bills were "too stupid" to sign this veteran stud. But because he's our QB he sucks.

17,22, and 17 points. 3 ints and 2 fumbles in 3 games. I can play the stats without supporting facts too. Orton doesn't suck but he ain't great either.

[DirtDart]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

Well if it weren't for Dan Carpenters leg, Orton would be 1-2. We beat the Vikings yesterday.........They are a bigger mess than we are. There is no way we survive 4 turnovers against a better team.

[JC2002]

But that's kinda been Orton's career. I don't know why people are surprised by it. There's a reason guys like him and Fitz play on a lot of teams. They are top tier backups who you hope don't start long periods for you because you're limited.

 

But that hasnt been ortons career I dont know why you are even tossing that out there . He has never been a big turnover or sack guy the fact is that that is more a result of the two things a poor Oline and the fact that the running game has failed so we have to lean on the pas more which just puts more pressure on the Oline .

 

Orton was on the Bears and was traded for Cutler

 

He was never the guy in Denver and he asked for a release late in the season(he was gonna be a free agent anyway) after several qbs went down around the league

 

he played well for the Chiefs in a even crazier situation(playoff race) that we have seen the past few weeks but they had big money already on the table in cassell

 

he signed with the Cowboys as the highest paid backup in the league and even the cowboys acknowledged that he could start around the league thats why they paid him as much as they did

 

We signed him for how much ? How much did Fitz sign with the texans for ?

[quinnearlysghost88]

Did you just make up a thing? I don't hear anyone hating kyle orton. he is what he is.

[Snorom]

Orton is a better version of Fitz so far

[TDO'Kearney]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

 

I like Orton just fine, if he could just get rid of the habit of throwing one grievous interception per game.

[C.Biscuit97]

Bills fans expectations of QB play have morphed into the unrealistic realm. We expect our QB to be perfect. No incompletions, no turnovers, no flaws of any kind, plus they have to win games single-handedly. And when we do have a guy who throws almost 300yds a game, makes thows downfield, completes 70% and has two last-second game-winning drives we don't even notice because we are too obsessed with his flaws. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad and typical.

 

I guarantee if Orton was doing this elsewhere we'd all be pissed the Bills were "too stupid" to sign this veteran stud. But because he's our QB he sucks.

 

Promo, I used to say the same thing about Fitz to defend him. Our standards need to be higher. Who really cares about yardage? We scored 1 td against Detroit. We barely scored 2 against Minnesota. Who cares about yards if you're handing the other team points with turnovers or turning the ball over in the red zone?

 

Why are you a hater because you want more? I generally agree fans are irrational about QBs. That's why I am so patient with EJ. But the reason we switched to Orton was to see a big improvement.

 

Again, it's not all on him. I think our OC is terrible and our oline has regressed. That's on the coaches. But to be happy with the current results is fool hardy. This team is playoff caliber except on offense right now.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

17,22, and 17 points. 3 ints and 2 fumbles in 3 games. I can play the stats without supporting facts too. Orton doesn't suck but he ain't great either.

2-1 as a starter, Jack. Aren't you always the guy saying W's tell the tale?

[JC2002]

Agree about the turnovers from Orton. Way too many and it is definitely hurting us. Without those, yesterday would not have been close and we may have had a shot against NE. Unfortunately though, he is not the only one that is turning the ball over. Too many fumbles by WR's and C.J. fumbled against NE as well. If this team can eliminate the turnovers, then the offense will look much better. I'll take the W's, and I do agree that Orton is a better option than E.J. right now, but if we are to stand a chance to make the playoffs, we have got to stop turning the ball over.

 

Again people who keep playing the if only game are simply wrong its football and thats not the way it works

 

Sammy dropped a 1st down pass at the 2 yard line and then we fumbled on 3rd down the very next play .

 

If only sammy doesn't drop that pass we would've scored and would have had a early lead and CJ and Fred wouldn't have been hurt because wouldn't have call the same plays with us being ahead

 

Do you see why you cant assume one thing would have led to another ,

 

Turnovers are bad especially in football but then again NOTHING has really worked out the way we thought when Orton took over and now the offense is basically 100% reliant on Orton throwing for nearly 300 yard every game which is not something you would expect of someone7 weeks off the street

[C.Biscuit97]

But that hasnt been ortons career I dont know why you are even tossing that out there . He has never been a big turnover or sack guy the fact is that that is more a result of the two things a poor Oline and the fact that the running game has failed so we have to lean on the pas more which just puts more pressure on the Oline .

 

Orton was on the Bears and was traded for Cutler

 

He was never the guy in Denver and he asked for a release late in the season(he was gonna be a free agent anyway) after several qbs went down around the league

 

he played well for the Chiefs in a even crazier situation(playoff race) that we have seen the past few weeks but they had big money already on the table in cassell

 

he signed with the Cowboys as the highest paid backup in the league and even the cowboys acknowledged that he could start around the league thats why they paid him as much as they did

 

We signed him for how much ? How much did Fitz sign with the texans for ?

 

He has 62 ints and 34 fumbles in 78 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

[dubs]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

[C.Biscuit97]

Again people who keep playing the if only game are simply wrong its football and thats not the way it works

 

Sammy dropped a 1st down pass at the 2 yard line and then we fumbled on 3rd down the very next play .

 

If only sammy doesn't drop that pass we would've scored and would have had a early lead and CJ and Fred wouldn't have been hurt because wouldn't have call the same plays with us being ahead

 

Do you see why you cant assume one thing would have led to another ,

 

Turnovers are bad especially in football but then again NOTHING has really worked out the way we thought when Orton took over and now the offense is basically 100% reliant on Orton throwing for nearly 300 yard every game which is not something you would expect of someone7 weeks off the street

 

Couldn't we say the same thing about EJ in Houston with the early drops?

 

Why are we making excuses for an 8th year QB? Isn't that the reason we switched? Is it wrong to want more than 17 points a game? Again, it's not all on Orton but I thought we were going to see a bigger upgrade.

[xsoldier54]

Wow just wow. If this had said EJ haters than Bills fans I would agree with you. Fans?!?! Can you name one person on this board that is a bigger EJ fan than Bills fan bc I can name several people that hate EJ enough to want him to fail rather than see the Bills win with him.

 

 

 

Yes Yes Yes. Orton has better passing totals. Takes more sacks and has more turnovers. I really think that EJ could've mustered the 17,22, and 17 points that Orton has put up. A lot of things have gotten worse with Orton taking over including the run game and pass pro. For a veteran who people say can read and diagnose a defense better than EJ I just don't see it. What I do see is a QB who takes more chances. I see one who isn't afraid to let it rip. I don't see better results though. Very happy to be 2-1 over the last few games. Even happier that EJ looks to be trying to learn while sitting. Not convinced Orton is anything other than a stop gap incapable of getting the Bills where we want them to be. I hope he leads them to a winning record, I hope we make the playoffs, then I hope next year the light switch has gone on for EJ or the Bills have a plan for the future. Hell I won't even mind being completely wrong about this and have Orton make a Gannon like resurgence. I just can't say that Orton is the reason the Bills have won or that he has even played well.

Do you really believe that E.J. at this point is capable of leading either of those two fourth quarter drives that led to those two wins? If so, then you must not have been watching him in weeks 3 and 4 because he was absolutely abysmal. Is Orton perfect? Absolutely not, but if you believe that the Bills win against either Detroit or Minnesota with Manuel at QB, then you are delusional. It's Orton's experience and calm demeanor, not to mention the throws that he has made that enable those two wins. Yes he has his flaws, but he is absolutely 100% head and shoulders a better option than E.J. Manuel at this point.

[Dorkington]

I like Orton just fine, if he could just get rid of the habit of throwing one grievous interception per game.

 

I'll take an INT a game, as long as there are 2+TDs per game, and he continues to complete 68% of his passes, many of them downfield.

 

My bigger beef is with fumbles, but a big part of that is that he's a pocket/downfield passer playing behind a crappy line, and with an unproductive running game.

 

Put Orton behind a solid line, and I feel some of the turnovers don't happen.

 

Why are we making excuses for an 8th year QB? Isn't that the reason we switched? Is it wrong to want more than 17 points a game? Again, it's not all on Orton but I thought we were going to see a bigger upgrade.

 

I believe EJ would be better with a better Oline, and a more consistent running game, just as I think Orton would be better as well. Orton, though, is a better passing QB at the moment, and with our weaknesses, that's what we need.

[C.Biscuit97]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

 

Haha. I never wanted Tuel to start. And are we really sure Orton is better than Fitz, a guy who most wanted gone? Because I'm not.

 

All will be fine if we make the playoffs. But if we don't, there will be some major questions to answer.

[section122]

2-1 as a starter, Jack. Aren't you always the guy saying W's tell the tale?

I'm happy to get the w's for sure. I just am not impressed by Orton. I am very happy the Bills are 4-3 right now. I just think that EJ could've led the team to the same 2-1 record. This team is winning because of the defense not because of the QB change. Orton is getting the wins and I won't fault him for that (how could I?). Orton also is showing what I already presumed, that he is very limited and will throw ints. If the team keeps winning I will keep celebrating. I don't see Orton as anything other that a stop gap QB (not that there is anything wrong with that). I can't put him on a pedestal as even a better than average QB.

 

I hate to take this stance because I don't want it to come off as bashing the Bills for Orton playing. I'm not and don't want to. I just hope that either EJ has the light go off or there are other plans for next year than Kyle Orton. HEckas I 've said today as well, I'd be just as happy with Orton lighting it up. I would like to win because of the QB not in spite of him.

[GunnerBill]

I also don't think any of the Orton supporters here are annointing him as the starter beyond this season are they? He is doing okay, I don't think EJ leads us down to win that one yesterday as much as I like the kid, Orton did when everything was against him. 4th and 20.... ball game, possibly season and maybe, ultimately, the HC's job on the line and he fires it 22 yards between two defenders to his tight end. That was some impressive composure and some impressive accuracy.

 

If I am Doug Whaley I am hoping Orton is enough to at least get us to 9-7, praying that we make the play-offs and then I am working on my options at Quarterback for 2015. If Orton saves this season that is a job well done, but he has to play better than this to prove himself the starter even in the medium term (ie. the next 2 years beyond this season).

[section122]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

To the bolded:

 

Absolutely not. Never anywhere. Not on here, not in conversation with my friends, never.

[buffalopdc]

"Our passing game has also been great since the switch. Not perfect, because of the O-line and a handful of Orton mistakes, but we have the best passing offense right now since Kelly."

 

 

You forgot Drew Bledsoe era as our passing was pretty good for a year then as well. Flutie also had a good year passing. He is no Kelly.

[C.Biscuit97]

Do you really believe that E.J. at this point is capable of leading either of those two fourth quarter drives that led to those two wins? If so, then you must not have been watching him in weeks 3 and 4 because he was absolutely abysmal. Is Orton perfect? Absolutely not, but if you believe that the Bills win against either Detroit or Minnesota with Manuel at QB, then you are delusional. It's Orton's experience and calm demeanor, not to mention the throws that he has made that enable those two wins. Yes he has his flaws, but he is absolutely 100% head and shoulders a better option than E.J. Manuel at this point.

 

Who knows this? Do I think EJ could have scored 17 points? Sure. I know he has 3 game winning drives in 14 starts and would have had another one if SJ and Chandler didn't fumble against ATL.

 

For the switch to be justified, I want to see better. Why is that wrong?