Hardcore Bills Fan Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Well some of us don't. Apparently some here already know the future of EJ. Wouldn't it be great to have that amazing gift. I know i want the lotto numbers from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I just saw Ortons contract is $5 million. Does a team that's confident in their starter pay $5 mill for a backup? Ortons gonna play. A team that feels they will be a playoff calibre team that has horrendous backups will pay $5 mil for the only decent backup available(who is also one of the best backups in the league). If the backup needs to come in at any point, it means that the playoff chances for the team are not thrown away. That is worth $5M. No QB who is looking to be the starter would settle for $5M/year. Even Kolb would have gotten $8M+ had he ended up becoming the starter. It seems to me that you suffer from confirmation bias on this. The Bills had no realistic backup QB. In any normal season this would be a problem, but with what appears to be a very good team about to take the field for the first time in a decade, they needed a good backup QB......so they got one(and had to overpay for one). Sure, there is a chance that EJ regresses to worse play than last season.....but do you honestly think that the Bill's FO is thinking that a likely scenario? Do you honestly think that they further thought that Orton would be good enough to be the starter needed to get them to the playoffs? If EJ falters long term this season(benched or injured), it will be devastating to not only our playoff hopes but also to Whaley & Marrone's job security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) I just saw Ortons contract is $5 million. Does a team that's confident in their starter pay $5 mill for a backup? Ortons gonna play. More importantly, the Bills have negligible money tied up in the QB position - relatively speaking. Money is irrelevant as to who plays when the numbers are this low. Edited September 1, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A team that feels they will be a playoff calibre team that has horrendous backups will pay $5 mil for the only decent backup available(who is also one of the best backups in the league). If the backup needs to come in at any point, it means that the playoff chances for the team are not thrown away. That is worth $5M. No QB who is looking to be the starter would settle for $5M/year. Even Kolb would have gotten $8M+ had he ended up becoming the starter. It seems to me that you suffer from confirmation bias on this. The Bills had no realistic backup QB. In any normal season this would be a problem, but with what appears to be a very good team about to take the field for the first time in a decade, they needed a good backup QB......so they got one(and had to overpay for one). Sure, there is a chance that EJ regresses to worse play than last season.....but do you honestly think that the Bill's FO is thinking that a likely scenario? Do you honestly think that they further thought that Orton would be good enough to be the starter needed to get them to the playoffs? If EJ falters long term this season(benched or injured), it will be devastating to not only our playoff hopes but also to Whaley & Marrone's job security. As per usual, this is an excellent post.. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A team that feels they will be a playoff calibre team that has horrendous backups will pay $5 mil for the only decent backup available(who is also one of the best backups in the league). If the backup needs to come in at any point, it means that the playoff chances for the team are not thrown away. That is worth $5M. No QB who is looking to be the starter would settle for $5M/year. Even Kolb would have gotten $8M+ had he ended up becoming the starter. It seems to me that you suffer from confirmation bias on this. The Bills had no realistic backup QB. In any normal season this would be a problem, but with what appears to be a very good team about to take the field for the first time in a decade, they needed a good backup QB......so they got one(and had to overpay for one). Sure, there is a chance that EJ regresses to worse play than last season.....but do you honestly think that the Bill's FO is thinking that a likely scenario? Do you honestly think that they further thought that Orton would be good enough to be the starter needed to get them to the playoffs? If EJ falters long term this season(benched or injured), it will be devastating to not only our playoff hopes but also to Whaley & Marrone's job security. What's this? Rational thought? B word, I'm so turned on right now I wanna have your babies. (No offense to Mrs. Dibs if there is a Mrs. Dibs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What's this? Rational thought? B word, I'm so turned on right now I wanna have your babies. (No offense to Mrs. Dibs if there is a Mrs. Dibs). :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 As per usual, this is an excellent post.. Well done. They call him Mr. Dibs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A team that feels they will be a playoff calibre team that has horrendous backups will pay $5 mil for the only decent backup available(who is also one of the best backups in the league). If the backup needs to come in at any point, it means that the playoff chances for the team are not thrown away. That is worth $5M. No QB who is looking to be the starter would settle for $5M/year. Even Kolb would have gotten $8M+ had he ended up becoming the starter. It seems to me that you suffer from confirmation bias on this. The Bills had no realistic backup QB. In any normal season this would be a problem, but with what appears to be a very good team about to take the field for the first time in a decade, they needed a good backup QB......so they got one(and had to overpay for one). Sure, there is a chance that EJ regresses to worse play than last season.....but do you honestly think that the Bill's FO is thinking that a likely scenario? Do you honestly think that they further thought that Orton would be good enough to be the starter needed to get them to the playoffs? If EJ falters long term this season(benched or injured), it will be devastating to not only our playoff hopes but also to Whaley & Marrone's job security. I don't see the correlation between an EJ injury and Whaley and Marrone's job security. EJ losing the starting job to Orton, while being healthy, is another matter entirely. I hope Whaley and Marrone have the balls to play the better QB this year. They are both likely gone in short order no matter what post ownership change, so at least give us Bills fans the best season we can have. Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What's this? Rational thought? B word, I'm so turned on right now I wanna have your babies. (No offense to Mrs. Dibs if there is a Mrs. Dibs). Sorry to inform you that there is a Mrs. Dibs(and I'm not the sort of guy to ignore my vows)....so no Dibs babies for you. Thanks for the offer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 That's silly. They wouldn't have brought in a really good back up if they were happy with their starter??? Come on man Didn't he do something similar v Miami when it was on the line? Situational awareness was not strong with that one in my memory. Great hair though... Yep. Home opener chan's first year as coach. Iirc he ran out of bounds on the last play of the game when a successful Hail Mary would have won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Why didn't Orton end up in St. Louis? i assume because they needed a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A team that feels they will be a playoff calibre team that has horrendous backups will pay $5 mil for the only decent backup available(who is also one of the best backups in the league). If the backup needs to come in at any point, it means that the playoff chances for the team are not thrown away. That is worth $5M. No QB who is looking to be the starter would settle for $5M/year. Even Kolb would have gotten $8M+ had he ended up becoming the starter. It seems to me that you suffer from confirmation bias on this. The Bills had no realistic backup QB. In any normal season this would be a problem, but with what appears to be a very good team about to take the field for the first time in a decade, they needed a good backup QB......so they got one(and had to overpay for one). Sure, there is a chance that EJ regresses to worse play than last season.....but do you honestly think that the Bill's FO is thinking that a likely scenario? Do you honestly think that they further thought that Orton would be good enough to be the starter needed to get them to the playoffs? If EJ falters long term this season(benched or injured), it will be devastating to not only our playoff hopes but also to Whaley & Marrone's job security. First, I felt the backup spot should have been addressed much earlier in the offseason. Second, I do not believe EJ Manuel is a starting caliber QB in this league. Now let's move on past that. Marrone often spoke about wanting more production out of Tuel and Lewis. I would hear this and think 'Tuels giving you about the same production as EJ' and so if that's the case (and that's how I perceive it to be and I understand if you don't) then Marrone must not be thrilled with EJ. And why would he be? Underwhelming is aword you could use to describe EJs off season. So,the Doug's realized that EJ could blow up I'm their faces and if they don't win this year they're gone...a new owner won't retain a losing coach or GM. So the Doug's said who is the best veteran option on the market and Orton was their guy. I believe the plan is to start EJ, and rapidly get Orton ready because the odds of us getting out to a bad start is pretty likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) First, I felt the backup spot should have been addressed much earlier in the offseason. Second, I do not believe EJ Manuel is a starting caliber QB in this league. Now let's move on past that. Marrone often spoke about wanting more production out of Tuel and Lewis. I would hear this and think 'Tuels giving you about the same production as EJ' and so if that's the case (and that's how I perceive it to be and I understand if you don't) then Marrone must not be thrilled with EJ. And why would he be? Underwhelming is aword you could use to describe EJs off season. So,the Doug's realized that EJ could blow up I'm their faces and if they don't win this year they're gone...a new owner won't retain a losing coach or GM. So the Doug's said who is the best veteran option on the market and Orton was their guy. I believe the plan is to start EJ, and rapidly get Orton ready because the odds of us getting out to a bad start is pretty likely. One more identified anti-EJ Crusader who I'd love to hear back up the assertions with some factual analysis to support the conclusion. Onward Soldier! Edited September 1, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) First, I felt the backup spot should have been addressed much earlier in the offseason. Second, I do not believe EJ Manuel is a starting caliber QB in this league. Now let's move on past that. .... Both of those items are irrelevant to the issue being discussed. (And for the record, it has been widely confirmed that the Bills were trying to sign Orton many weeks back) (And also.....really? I would never have guessed your thoughts on EJ) ...... Marrone often spoke about wanting more production out of Tuel and Lewis. I would hear this and think 'Tuels giving you about the same production as EJ' and so if that's the case (and that's how I perceive it to be and I understand if you don't) then Marrone must not be thrilled with EJ. And why would he be? Underwhelming is aword you could use to describe EJs off season. ..... Just because you had thoughts does not mean they are correct. There is no logical reason to think that Marrone had those thoughts at all. You hit the nail on the head above with "and so if that's the case". You keep assuming that it is the case....even though you stated yourself "if"....meaning it might not be the case. How can you state something with such conviction.....yet you acknowledge it is based upon an unknown.....an "if"? Who knows though? You might be correct.....but a vast majority(media & the board) saw Lewis & Tuel being in the "not good enough to be a backup" level.....which was well behind EJ(not saying EJ is good.....but even below serviceable is well ahead of how Lewis & Tuel looked). ..... So,the Doug's realized that EJ could blow up I'm their faces and if they don't win this year they're gone...a new owner won't retain a losing coach or GM. So the Doug's said who is the best veteran option on the market and Orton was their guy. .... Your entire thought progression hinges on the unfounded concept that you believe Marrone is extremely worried about EJ......and some strange belief that Orton can be some sort of savoir. What makes you think that Whaley/Marrone think the same as yourself?(repeating myself.....but I don't care). I don't see things exactly the same way that you do.....what makes you think that the GM & HC see things as you see things? You don't strike me as somebody who might typically display such hubris.....but who knows? .... I believe the plan is to start EJ, and rapidly get Orton ready because the odds of us getting out to a bad start is pretty likely. In my initial response to you I clearly showed a logical explanation regarding Orton. You seem so convinced in your own views that you have projected them not only onto the Bills FO(with nothing to back up that assumption)....but insist on them despite certain elements of reality. Hey....you might be right though. Stranger things have happened. Edited September 1, 2014 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 First, I felt the backup spot should have been addressed much earlier in the offseason. Second, I do not believe EJ Manuel is a starting caliber QB in this league. Now let's move on past that. You're being very un-dude. With regard to EJ, there are a lot of ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-yous that you're not paying attention to. New sh-- has come to light, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 EJ will have his chance to answer the bell. I'm eager to see how he does. That said it appears I'm being labeled an "EJ hater" which is accurate and unfair. I'm not impressed with EJ and wasn't a fan of his coming out. EJ has ALWAYS frustrated me back to college. He has all the talent but he has never put it together. Never ever. He'll have good games and others that just leave you wondering how he's starting. This is not just about last season, it goes back to FSU. Also, I've always been a big fan of Ortons. I seriously have. I was a fan of his since his Chicago days. I feel that he's the better QB. None of my feelings make me a bad fan. Nonetheless I feel there's merit to things I've suggested the Doug's are thinking. I can't prove them and it's like just my opinion man. And I'd like to end on this... I think with adequate QB play and abounding the injury bug we can be a playoff team. I do not see EJ as a QB capable of getting a team into the playoffs. I could be wrong. Let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 EJ will have his chance to answer the bell. I'm eager to see how he does. That said it appears I'm being labeled an "EJ hater" which is accurate and unfair. I'm not impressed with EJ and wasn't a fan of his coming out. EJ has ALWAYS frustrated me back to college. He has all the talent but he has never put it together. Never ever. He'll have good games and others that just leave you wondering how he's starting. This is not just about last season, it goes back to FSU. Also, I've always been a big fan of Ortons. I seriously have. I was a fan of his since his Chicago days. I feel that he's the better QB. None of my feelings make me a bad fan. Nonetheless I feel there's merit to things I've suggested the Doug's are thinking. I can't prove them and it's like just my opinion man. And I'd like to end on this... I think with adequate QB play and abounding the injury bug we can be a playoff team. I do not see EJ as a QB capable of getting a team into the playoffs. I could be wrong. Let's see. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 One more identified anti-EJ Crusader who I'd love to hear back up the assertions with some factual analysis to support the conclusion. Onward Soldier! I've watched him since college and I've never been impressed. I could be wrong. I'm not going to get in a debate about it because there's no point. Starting Sunday things will start getting clearer. And if I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. But I do think Orton is far superior to EJ. Ortons nowhere near the physical specimen EJ is but I believe him to be the better QB. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I've watched him since college and I've never been impressed. I could be wrong. I'm not going to get in a debate about it because there's no point. Starting Sunday things will start getting clearer. And if I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. But I do think Orton is far superior to EJ. Ortons nowhere near the physical specimen EJ is but I believe him to be the better QB. Hope that helps. http://www.wgr550.co...24384&archive=1 Orton has 70 career starts to his name and has won exactly half of them. Over his eight years of experience, the quarterback has thrown for 15,019 yards, 83 touchdowns and 59 interceptions with a 58.5 completion percentage. I have to question your assertion based Orton's career numbers that are very similar to EJ's rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 http://www.wgr550.co...24384&archive=1 I have to question your assertion based Orton's career numbers that are very similar to EJ's rookie year. I understand. And let's be clear, there's no problem with disagreeing. So here's what I'll say, when I watch EJ I'm not impressed, in fact I'm frequently disappointed. When I watch Orton I see an efficient QB. That's a qualitative analysis from my perspective. I understand the stats muddy that but that's still how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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