MarkAF43 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Ok, I keep seeing people posting they think NF would make the most sense for a stadium, and I've brought this up in other threads but don't really get any truthful answers to it, which is why I'm making it a new topic. Niagara Falls has some very serious infrastructure issues which would be prohibitive to building a new stadium in the falls. It's not in the greatest of areas to begin with, traffic would be an absolute nightmare as right now you basically have 4 ways out of the falls (Robert Moses parkway to GI Bridges, Robert Moses to Lasalle Expressway to River Road, Pine Ave to NF Blvd, or Buffalo ave to GI bridge or River road. So can anyone share a plan or an idea as to how to make this work? Someone mentioned a rail line etc, but for the people who want to drive, how do you make this a reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Geography.... site and situation. You can improve the site of a stadium location, that is improve infrastructure. You can't move it's situation, that is how it fits into its network or surroundings and in this case, the bi-national population market. So placing the stadium in NF, from a pure situational standpoint puts it as close to Toronto and southern Ontario as possible without leaving NY. All the so-called site factors that people suggest are problematic are correctable but you can't build a stadium in Orchard Park again and move millions of people closer to it! Not advocating NF but it does make the most sense IF getting more people from that market is a goal AND the decision makers feel that reducing travel time will help support that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Geography.... site and situation. You can improve the site of a stadium location, that is improve infrastructure. You can't move it's situation, that is how it fits into its network or surroundings and in this case, the bi-national population market. So placing the stadium in NF, from a pure situational standpoint puts it as close to Toronto and southern Ontario as possible without leaving NY. All the so-called site factors that people suggest are problematic are correctable but you can't build a stadium in Orchard Park again and move millions of people closer to it! Not advocating NF but it does make the most sense IF getting more people from that market is a goal AND the decision makers feel that reducing travel time will help support that goal. But this doesn't answer the logistics problems that NF faces. The city had traffic difficulties with the Wallenda walk and at most it was 15-20K people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) to me, its impossible. At least the most common vision of the Millstein area. That area is too small for the "campus" with parking and stadium footprint... let alone offices and practice facilities. In any direction you would run into serious demo and property acquisition issues... and maybe even environmental remediation. I also read there are people within Millstein's property who refuse to sell. The traffic is something that is addressed and would be mega bucks to "fix" even if its possible. There is also disaster bottleneck situation post-game with the nearby Rainbow Bridge and customs being right there. You would have a nearly unprecedented wait every gameday and the line would spill out and further gridlock the stadium area. Grand Island Bridges would be awful. Robert Moses, LaSalle, Pine Ave, Niagara Falls Blvd are all very poorly designed for major traffic situations. The area there is a corner landlocked by a natural water border. I also shudder to think the danger of having the gorge/falls there when it comes to the drinking associated with football games. The Niagara Falls government is as backwards as the come. There is also a much smaller tax base to draw from and they are not the incumbent Erie County. The State has also invested a lot of bucks in downtown and I think the stadium would be more likely put there to enhance the efforts and succesful development, or in place where infrastructure and land is already on hand. I think we are talking doubling the price of a stadium to make it work/shoehorn it in Niagara Falls. There is also little to no real development that radiates from plopping a stadium down. I think if you 'have' to put it in NF. They are better off more toward Wheatfield, and then you ask yourself 'why'? Edited June 4, 2014 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) But this doesn't answer the logistics problems that NF faces. The city had traffic difficulties with the Wallenda walk and at most it was 15-20K people. Obviously you've never been to Gillette Stadium in Foxboro where there is only two ways into that stadium: Rt.1 North or Route 1 South. And yet they make it work. While not ideal NF access isn't the disaster you describe. A traffic study is part of the site search going on now so they are thinking about it. There are three other big factors that make NF so attractive: 1) Land...Howard Milstein, who is very connected to the governor, owns a gigantic parcel of land right behind the casino. 2) Border access...Canadian fans can literally walk over the Rainbow Bridge to the new stadium. Customs can close down auto traffic for a day. It's a lot easier moving large numbers of people over a border without their vehicles. 3) Falls redevelopment...Let's face it, NF, USA is a hole. If you build an NFL stadium along with a convention, hotel and entertainment complex, you have an attraction that trumps the Canadian side at least on game days. You can also develop an "NFL Experience" theme park as an ongoing attraction. How about moving training camp there? Another attraction. A bowl game? UB football? There are other events you can add that make it viable outside of game days. Edited June 4, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Finally----a new, fresh topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Finally----a new, fresh topic! Sorry, I didn't want to crusade on each topic that talks about a new stadium, I wanted to hear ideas that are realistic and possible if the stadium ended up in the falls. I know we have stadium topics, but like I said, i didn't want to crusade on each and everyone to get peoples feedback on the issues I brought up Obviously you've never been to Gillette Stadium in Foxboro where there is only two ways into that stadium: Rt.1 North or Route 1 South. And yet they make it work. While not ideal NF access isn't the disaster you describe. A traffic study is part of the site search going on now so they are thinking about it. There are three other big factors that make NF so attractive: Can you elaborate on it? I grew up in the falls and I know how bad traffic can be down there during tourist season, so how isn't it as bad as described? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Can you elaborate on it? I grew up in the falls and I know how bad traffic can be down there during tourist season, so how isn't it as bad as described? Well you have just one road, Route 1. Getting in isn't too bad since people filter in all morning, but after the game it takes 1-2 hours to get out of the stadium parking lots, again, because there is only one road to leave on. Imagine if everyone at RWS had to leave by Abbott Rd. only. That's what it's like. Edited June 4, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well you have just one road, Route 1. Getting in isn't too bad since people filter in all morning, but after the game it takes 1-2 hours to get out of the stadium parking lots, again, because there is only one road to leave on. Imagine if everyone at RWS had to leave by Abbott Rd. only. That's what it's like. That's what I'm saying, for most people coming in from the US, a good majority would use the GI bridges, now imagine 1 fender bender on the bridge. People aren't going to be arriving back home in Buffalo, West Seneca etc for roughly 2-3 hours. It may be beneficial for folks north of the border (which I'm not 100% on bc Sunday afternoons many of the weekend shoppers from the north return home too), but I think it's a pretty significant issue for those of us on this side of the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Sorry, I didn't want to crusade on each topic that talks about a new stadium, I wanted to hear ideas that are realistic and possible if the stadium ended up in the falls. I know we have stadium topics, but like I said, i didn't want to crusade on each and everyone to get peoples feedback on the issues I brought up Was just pointing out that NF as a stadium site has had at least 5 threads devoted solely to the topic over the past 2-3 months. Every angle was covered. Be prepared to hear the suggestion that the Canadians will walk over the border to the stadium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Niagara Falls has its faults BUT, IF Bon Jovi were the successful bidder, he needs a place to play. Toronto is way short of NFL seating standards. He needs a new Stadium, and we all know the BILLS don't draw well in Toronto. He should know that Canadian support is not enough by itself. He also should know that our Fan Base will not follow the team to Toronto. So IF he's successful, a NF site makes sense in keeping us, and adding enough additional Canadian Fans to make the whole outrageous purchase price work. The future of the BILLS demands a "regional" fan base. NF is close enough to: Buffalo, Hamilton, Toronto, and Rochester to provide the fan support that will be needed in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Be prepared to hear the suggestion that the Canadians will walk over the border to the stadium... already happened, including the idea of closing off the bridge to autos on gameday. This NF thing just all seems far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Infrastructure issues can be worked on. It is not a though they are going to dump the stadium there and say "ok good to go", at least I would hope not. The State will do its part in creating better through put and they don't have to account for it as part of the stadium budget. I am not advocating for NF just saying that infrastructure is not as large an issue as I think many have made it out to be. Expensive, perhaps a show stopper no. Edited June 4, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Be prepared to hear the suggestion that the Canadians will walk over the border to the stadium... Oh, lookie! http://www.torontosu...-to-beat-source And what if this new super group were to emphatically endorse the construction of a new Bills stadium not in Canada, and not in Buffalo or surrounding Erie County, but rather in downtown Niagara Falls, N.Y? Say, on the 142-acre property owned by billionaire developer Howard Milstein that's literally a short walk from Canada? That's what I'm saying, for most people coming in from the US, a good majority would use the GI bridges, now imagine 1 fender bender on the bridge. People aren't going to be arriving back home in Buffalo, West Seneca etc for roughly 2-3 hours. It may be beneficial for folks north of the border (which I'm not 100% on bc Sunday afternoons many of the weekend shoppers from the north return home too), but I think it's a pretty significant issue for those of us on this side of the border. Except there isn't just one road out of the Falls location. People can leave in any and every direction. (And by that I'm talking about the area immediately surrounding the stadium.) Not even close to the Foxboro situation. Edited June 4, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Just a thought. ..if im not mistaken would erie county oppose the relocation to Niagara county? Erie county has negotiated the current lease and stands to lose tax revenue if they move to Niagara county. Would Erie county consider this a relocation and try to block it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Ok, I keep seeing people posting they think NF would make the most sense for a stadium, and I've brought this up in other threads but don't really get any truthful answers to it, which is why I'm making it a new topic. Niagara Falls has some very serious infrastructure issues which would be prohibitive to building a new stadium in the falls. It's not in the greatest of areas to begin with, traffic would be an absolute nightmare as right now you basically have 4 ways out of the falls (Robert Moses parkway to GI Bridges, Robert Moses to Lasalle Expressway to River Road, Pine Ave to NF Blvd, or Buffalo ave to GI bridge or River road. So can anyone share a plan or an idea as to how to make this work? Someone mentioned a rail line etc, but for the people who want to drive, how do you make this a reality? It's not a good idea on any level, but for some reason it keeps flaring up like a hemorrhoid. for some reason, people think it would be better for Canadians, which in truth, it really would be a traffic nightmare, not to mention the Arial shots of the stadium would be hilarious as we also get to see the marvelous dump in view. It's never going to fade though until ground breaks somewhere else more logical. Just imagine, a shiny new stadium and..... nothing else around it, built in a decimated city... brilliant idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Oh, lookie! http://www.torontosu...-to-beat-source Except there isn't just one road out of the Falls location. People can leave in any and every direction. (And by that I'm talking about the area immediately surrounding the stadium.) Not even close to the Foxboro situation. Proof that not all looney ideas are unique to New Hampshire. And congratulations for landing on the same intellectual wavelength as "John Kryk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) How many canadians even go directly to the stadium on gamedays? I would bet a very large majority stop and get food and libations on their way to orchard park. I would also expect the rainbow bridge delays, gridlock in the city of nf and trying to find beer and food would cost canadians more time than a trip elsewhere. The smart ones would likely swing down to the peace bridge anyways Edited June 4, 2014 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Obviously you've never been to Gillette Stadium in Foxboro where there is only two ways into that stadium: Rt.1 North or Route 1 South. And yet they make it work. While not ideal NF access isn't the disaster you describe. A traffic study is part of the site search going on now so they are thinking about it. There are three other big factors that make NF so attractive: 1) Land...Howard Milstein, who is very connected to the governor, owns a gigantic parcel of land right behind the casino. 2) Border access...Canadian fans can literally walk over the Rainbow Bridge to the new stadium. Customs can close down auto traffic for a day. It's a lot easier moving large numbers of people over a border without their vehicles. 3) Falls redevelopment...Let's face it, NF, USA is a hole. If you build an NFL stadium along with a convention, hotel and entertainment complex, you have an attraction that trumps the Canadian side at least on game days. You can also develop an "NFL Experience" theme park as an ongoing attraction. How about moving training camp there? Another attraction. A bowl game? UB football? There are other events you can add that make it viable outside of game days. Good point of NF site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here is an argument that counts: http://www.niagara-gazette.com/buffalo-bills/x712209418/Kelly-still-keen-on-Bills-stadium-in-the-Falls?mobRedir=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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