Campy Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 i completely understand it. And I would probably do the same in his position. But what it comes down to is this, football (or any sport for that matter) has no inherent value at all. It is simply entertainment. And in the case of the the NFL in the US, an amazingly profitable form of entertainment. Limiting press access, while undoubtedly a good thing regarding football itself, would seem counterproductive when considering press coverage equals free advertising. Which the Browns (and the NFL) are still receiving - it's not like they aren't talking about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 coddled in college. coddled in the nfl. yes, coddling the quarterback is always the best move. really sends a good message to his teammates that a rookie -- a rookie -- is more important than them. i guess the big-bad media is far more intimidating than an oncoming defensive end or linebacker. jw Your sense of entitlement perhaps illustrates why coaches and players would desire to limit their exposure to your ilk. You have interests that are not in line with their interests. Since they are the primary source of fan excitement, it makes sense that the pilot fish in the situation would have hurt feelings. The fact is that writers may desire quotes, but these quotes come from mostly strange questions that take a number of leading, long winded, what is the point questions that are punctuated with proof that the reporter doesn't know much about football to begin with. The press coverage of Marrone after day 1 of rookie mini-camp was a train wreck of lame, long winded questions that the coach had trouble following. As the intermediary between the team and the fans, the media as an industry create more problems than good. As a culture, you guys seem to function more as pundits in the fact that a question always seems to be pre-empted with a diatribe or assumption at the vary least before clumsily getting to the point. Do you guys really need access to write your articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Here's another whiner: Michael Silver @MikeSilver 10m I'm worried that no one in Cleveland (or beyond) saw this column I did on the team's neutering of Johnny Manziel: http://on.nfl.com/1gO6xUI That guy gets on my last nerve...I almost never agree with his takes...I know who he is...He's basically my age...I've known of him forever...Maybe he's just a guy that is meant to stay in print media because I can't stomach him on NFL Network...The way he covered the Rams during the Draft was...well...I just don't like him much...JMO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 That guy gets on my last nerve...I almost never agree with his takes...I know who he is...He's basically my age...I've known of him forever...Maybe he's just a guy that is meant to stay in print media because I can't stomach him on NFL Network...The way he covered the Rams during the Draft was...well...I just don't like him much...JMO of course... Some are very good...professional in fact. I'd say Wawrow and Carucci are intelligent, considerate and inquisitive. Others (in my opinion) just like to hear themselves talk (Lupica, Silver) and have an "entitlement" mentality where no right exists (such as in the case of the Browns' rookie camp). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Your sense of entitlement perhaps illustrates why coaches and players would desire to limit their exposure to your ilk. You have interests that are not in line with their interests. Since they are the primary source of fan excitement, it makes sense that the pilot fish in the situation would have hurt feelings. The fact is that writers may desire quotes, but these quotes come from mostly strange questions that take a number of leading, long winded, what is the point questions that are punctuated with proof that the reporter doesn't know much about football to begin with. The press coverage of Marrone after day 1 of rookie mini-camp was a train wreck of lame, long winded questions that the coach had trouble following. As the intermediary between the team and the fans, the media as an industry create more problems than good. As a culture, you guys seem to function more as pundits in the fact that a question always seems to be pre-empted with a diatribe or assumption at the vary least before clumsily getting to the point. Do you guys really need access to write your articles? thanks, mr. pulitzer. you're spot on as usual. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 coddled in college. coddled in the nfl. yes, coddling the quarterback is always the best move. really sends a good message to his teammates that a rookie -- a rookie -- is more important than them. i guess the big-bad media is far more intimidating than an oncoming defensive end or linebacker. jw Fair enough... I imagine the truth is the Browns fully understand Manziel has a reputation for not taking preparation and study seriously and that is their main focus...Which means they need to control as much of him that is within their control...As far as the locker room goes a lot of that stuff gets sorted out on the field...If he plays well he'll have his backers in the locker room regardless...If he does not prepare like he should, is not a team first guy, and pays poorly, he'll be an outcast quick...I don't see Manziel as the kind of kid who is going to be humbled easily, especially if he plays well early...So this should be very interesting... I have no issues with the way the Browns are handling it...They are clearly drawing a line with what they expect of JF and that's smart...With one possible exception...Saying Manziel is the clear back-up to Hoyer is kind of laughable...Everyone knows Manziel will get all the opportunity in the world to beat Hoyer out...And I don't think for a second Manziel is going to see himself as a back-up, or act like one for very long...Because he knows it's not Tom Brady he's competing with...Everyone knows it...He may be an arrogant selfish child at times...But he's not stupid... Some are very good...professional in fact. I'd say Wawrow and Carucci are intelligent, considerate and inquisitive. Others (in my opinion) just like to hear themselves talk (Lupica, Silver) and have an "entitlement" mentality where no right exists (such as in the case of the Browns' rookie camp). True...I was only talking about Silver...I LOVE Vic...He's awesome...I actually like at least something about most everybody with a take on the NFL...But Silver, and my least favorite of all La Canfora...well...Don't like em' much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) i also find it odd that the person accusing the media of clumsily phrased, long-winded diatribes that have more to do with punditry than reporting can be accused of doing the exact same thing here. and yet, i find it amusing, nonetheless. jw Edited May 19, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 They just had one of the local Browns reporters on the radio describing the media access - he said 40 local reporters and no national reporters were allowed access... no photographers allowed...they only did a pool video of the pressers and some of camp, which they then cut up/edited and distributed for use plus their own pictures that they distributed. He said the video showed only Manzeil doing handoffs, they didn't see him go back to pass. Also, in order to be allowed into the presser, the local reporters had to have their picture taken, a wristband, and fill out paperwork. Fair enough... I imagine the truth is the Browns fully understand Manziel has a reputation for not taking preparation and study seriously and that is their main focus...Which means they need to control as much of him that is within their control...As far as the locker room goes a lot of that stuff gets sorted out on the field...If he plays well he'll have his backers in the locker room regardless...If he does not prepare like he should, is not a team first guy, and pays poorly, he'll be an outcast quick...I don't see Manziel as the kind of kid who is going to be humbled easily, especially if he plays well early...So this should be very interesting... I have no issues with the way the Browns are handling it...They are clearly drawing a line with what they expect of JF and that's smart...With one possible exception...Saying Manziel is the clear back-up to Hoyer is kind of laughable...Everyone knows Manziel will get all the opportunity in the world to beat Hoyer out...And I don't think for a second Manziel is going to see himself as a back-up, or act like one for very long...Because he knows it's not Tom Brady he's competing with...Everyone knows it...He may be an arrogant selfish child at times...But he's not stupid... True...I was only talking about Silver...I LOVE Vic...He's awesome...I actually like at least something about most everybody with a take on the NFL...But Silver, and my least favorite of all La Canfora...well...Don't like em' much... Thus far, he seems very robotic in his answers. There is question as to whether he has been asked to act a certain way not only by the Browns, but his new Nike endorsement deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) i completely understand it. And I would probably do the same in his position. But what it comes down to is this, football (or any sport for that matter) has no inherent value at all. It is simply entertainment. And in the case of the the NFL in the US, an amazingly profitable form of entertainment. Limiting press access, while undoubtedly a good thing regarding football itself, would seem counterproductive when considering press coverage equals free advertising. I have to say that I mostly disagree. First, winning is what gives your team value. If the Browns think this gives them the best chance at winning, then nothing else matters. Second, the press reap what they sow and then cry foul. I'm with RealityCheck; I can't stand to listen to press conferences. Reporters ask the same horrible questions over and over with minor adjustments in the hope of getting just one word in the answer they can jump on. ANYTHING to try and sell a headline. And when anyone dares try to cross them, they come out in force and act like everyone who disagrees with them are out of their minds (and of course insult as best they can, right JW?). coddled in college. coddled in the nfl. yes, coddling the quarterback is always the best move. really sends a good message to his teammates that a rookie -- a rookie -- is more important than them. i guess the big-bad media is far more intimidating than an oncoming defensive end or linebacker. jw :cry: Your sense of entitlement perhaps illustrates why coaches and players would desire to limit their exposure to your ilk. You have interests that are not in line with their interests. Since they are the primary source of fan excitement, it makes sense that the pilot fish in the situation would have hurt feelings. The fact is that writers may desire quotes, but these quotes come from mostly strange questions that take a number of leading, long winded, what is the point questions that are punctuated with proof that the reporter doesn't know much about football to begin with. The press coverage of Marrone after day 1 of rookie mini-camp was a train wreck of lame, long winded questions that the coach had trouble following. As the intermediary between the team and the fans, the media as an industry create more problems than good. As a culture, you guys seem to function more as pundits in the fact that a question always seems to be pre-empted with a diatribe or assumption at the vary least before clumsily getting to the point. Do you guys really need access to write your articles? Spot on. Edited May 19, 2014 by Acantha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 They just had one of the local Browns reporters on the radio describing the media access - he said 40 local reporters and no national reporters were allowed access... no photographers allowed...they only did a pool video of the pressers and some of camp, which they then cut up/edited and distributed for use plus their own pictures that they distributed. He said the video showed only Manzeil doing handoffs, they didn't see him go back to pass. Also, in order to be allowed into the presser, the local reporters had to have their picture taken, a wristband, and fill out paperwork. Thus far, he seems very robotic in his answers. There is question as to whether he has been asked to act a certain way not only by the Browns, but his new Nike endorsement deal. What? No blood sample? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 They just had one of the local Browns reporters on the radio describing the media access - he said 40 local reporters and no national reporters were allowed access... no photographers allowed...they only did a pool video of the pressers and some of camp, which they then cut up/edited and distributed for use plus their own pictures that they distributed. He said the video showed only Manzeil doing handoffs, they didn't see him go back to pass. Also, in order to be allowed into the presser, the local reporters had to have their picture taken, a wristband, and fill out paperwork. Thus far, he seems very robotic in his answers. There is question as to whether he has been asked to act a certain way not only by the Browns, but his new Nike endorsement deal. That couldn't have gone over too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 That couldn't have gone over too well. I think it's hilarious. Browns better be ready to deal with the backlash. Of course as Pettine said, can't get much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 So Mike Pettine and the GM decided to limit media, cameras, interviews, etc. for whatever reason (mostly due to Johnny Football I imagine). Pettine whats JFM concentrating on football instead of media jockeys. Who would of thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 i also find it odd that the person accusing the media of clumsily phrased, long-winded diatribes that have more to do with punditry than reporting can be accused of doing the exact same thing here. and yet, i find it amusing, nonetheless. jw If you believe that the media is analogous to fan message boards, then my point has been made. Who needs facts and insight when hyperbole and perception are the well-spring from which current events are monetized? I don't feel that you found my previous response amusing in the least. Few people find amusement when the shoe is on the other foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 i completely understand it. And I would probably do the same in his position. But what it comes down to is this, football (or any sport for that matter) has no inherent value at all. It is simply entertainment. And in the case of the the NFL in the US, an amazingly profitable form of entertainment. Limiting press access, while undoubtedly a good thing regarding football itself, would seem counterproductive when considering press coverage equals free advertising. yes, but you can flip that on its head as well. the browns limiting access to their rookie minicamp is now a story.. is this story bigger than if there was some footage of manziel throwing 20 passes with the headline "browns open camp to rookies"? i think it is. they are the villains now, for better or worse, with mystery surrounding them and their gun slinging quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Second, the press reap what they sow and then cry foul. I'm with RealityCheck; I can't stand to listen to press conferences. Reporters ask the same horrible questions over and over with minor adjustments in the hope of getting just one word in the answer they can jump on. ANYTHING to try and sell a headline. And when anyone dares try to cross them, they come out in force and act like everyone who disagrees with them are out of their minds (and of course insult as best they can, right JW?). there are defined rules of engagement the NFL follows. when teams or players try to skirt around those rules the press has every right to chirp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) If you believe that the media is analogous to fan message boards, then my point has been made. Who needs facts and insight when hyperbole and perception are the well-spring from which current events are monetized? I don't feel that you found my previous response amusing in the least. Few people find amusement when the shoe is on the other foot. don't tell me what amuses or doesn't amuse me. your flailings at logic and ideas in regards to how i do my job are amusing. ha, ha, ha. jw I have to say that I mostly disagree. First, winning is what gives your team value. If the Browns think this gives them the best chance at winning, then nothing else matters. Second, the press reap what they sow and then cry foul. I'm with RealityCheck; I can't stand to listen to press conferences. Reporters ask the same horrible questions over and over with minor adjustments in the hope of getting just one word in the answer they can jump on. ANYTHING to try and sell a headline. And when anyone dares try to cross them, they come out in force and act like everyone who disagrees with them are out of their minds (and of course insult as best they can, right JW?). yes, we search for the truth. and in searching for the truth, we sometimes re-ask the same questions because the answers sometimes don't add up or are incomplete. funny, we in the media are criticized for doing both not enough to find the truth and too much to find the truth. and when we in the media attempt to explain our actions and concerns we are accused of being whiny and defensive. your stance is an easy one to take because no matter my response, you can justify your argument. the truth about Johnny Manziel will come out one way or another, whether he is made available to the media or not. to slow or filter that information really does no one no good, in my opinion. rather than taking away the focus on Manziel, it simply adds to it. the Browns drafted him in order for him to be a leader. and yet they don't seem to have reservations of whether he has leadership skills. seems to me, this decision reflects more on the Browns and Manziel than the media. but we're the ones that are easy to blame. jw all that said, it's a credit to the Bills that they made Seantrel Henderson available given questions about his past. and it's a credit to Seantrel for standing up and answering those questions over the past few days. whether or not he overcomes the "demons," which Doug Whaley referred to, Seantrel has earned my respect for being a standup guy. Edited May 19, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 don't tell me what amuses or doesn't amuse me. your flailings at logic and ideas in regards to how i do my job are amusing. ha, ha, ha. jw yes, we search for the truth. and in searching for the truth, we sometimes re-ask the same questions because the answers sometimes don't add up or are incomplete. funny, we in the media are criticized for doing both not enough to find the truth and too much to find the truth. and when we in the media attempt to explain our actions and concerns we are accused of being whiny and defensive. your stance is an easy one to take because no matter my response, you can justify your argument. the truth about Johnny Manziel will come out one way or another, whether he is made available to the media or not. to slow or filter that information really does no one no good, in my opinion. rather than taking away the focus on Manziel, it simply adds to it. the Browns drafted him in order for him to be a leader. and yet they don't seem to have reservations of whether he has leadership skills. seems to me, this decision reflects more on the Browns and Manziel than the media. but we're the ones that are easy to blame. jw all that said, it's a credit to the Bills that they made Seantrel Henderson available given questions about his past. and it's a credit to Seantrel for standing up and answering those questions over the past few days. whether or not he overcomes the "demons," which Doug Whaley referred to, Seantrel has earned my respect for being a standup guy. Many questions to coaches and players are justified (whether long winded or not). The problem referenced in this thread is "if a team closes practice to the national media, why raise a ruckus...?" Were Lupica's feelings hurt? Did he feel left out? The outrage and chest thumping as if to say "we're entitled to watch JF" is comical. I haven't seen you join in so for that I thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) there are defined rules of engagement the NFL follows. when teams or players try to skirt around those rules the press has every right to chirp. I agree they should follow the rules. Is that the case here? Also, when a team/player doesn't follow the rules, I don't see the point in acting like petulant children like they did with Marshawn Lynch. File a grievance with the league and let them handle it. yes, we search for the truth. and in searching for the truth, we sometimes re-ask the same questions because the answers sometimes don't add up or are incomplete. funny, we in the media are criticized for doing both not enough to find the truth and too much to find the truth. and when we in the media attempt to explain our actions and concerns we are accused of being whiny and defensive. Not exactly how it goes down, but keep deluding yourself into that, "we're just doing our jobs and getting the information out" mantra. your stance is an easy one to take because no matter my response, you can justify your argument. Ah, I see. I like how you try to take away any argument I may have by telling me it's easy to go either direction. How very manipulative of you. Call me shocked. the truth about Johnny Manziel will come out one way or another, whether he is made available to the media or not. to slow or filter that information really does no one no good, in my opinion. rather than taking away the focus on Manziel, it simply adds to it.the Browns drafted him in order for him to be a leader. and yet they don't seem to have reservations of whether he has leadership skills. seems to me, this decision reflects more on the Browns and Manziel than the media. For the record, I agree (about it being a bad idea). I think there will be a small benefit in letting him (and all of the other rookies) get started with as little fuss as possible. But since the media are who they are, all the Browns have done is open JM up to the shameless retaliation that is to come. And oh how proud everyone will be if they're able to grind him into the ground and say, "told ya!! ") In the end, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks but the Browns. It's their decision to make, but how it reflects on them is has nothing to do with my post. but we're the ones that are easy to blame. Yeah, it's very easy to blame the people responsible. Just kind of works itself out. all that said, it's a credit to the Bills that they made Seantrel Henderson available given questions about his past. and it's a credit to Seantrel for standing up and answering those questions over the past few days. whether or not he overcomes the "demons," which Doug Whaley referred to, Seantrel has earned my respect for being a standup guy. Talk about apples to oranges. Edited May 19, 2014 by Acantha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 22m #browns hc Pettine said national media will be permitted at practices now "but we're not going to go overboard." Limits on filming, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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