IS JIM SCHWARTZ A DINOSAUR???

[DOGNESS]

When they first hired Schwartz I thought it was a good move. Then he switched to a 4-3(even though we dont have two dolid DE's to justify that move) and started talking about how scheme is less important and you need your guys to win one on one battles. He is starting to remind me way to much of Dave Wannstadt. Somebody put my mind at ease and tell me why I shouldnt expect this defense to drop back into the 20's where it usually is.

[Bangarang]

We were basically a 4-3 team last year under Pettine.

 

But it's pretty simple minded to think that because Wannstedt and Schwartz both run 4-3 defenses that they are exactly the same and will yield the same results.

[Kellyto83TD]

Dear God stop, just stop. Seattle and SF play 4-3 defenses. 4-3 is still the best IMHO. This Hybrid **** has still = we can't stop the damn run and we still have a sub .500 record. How about we just pick a damn defense and kick ass with it? JS was one of the best DC's in the NFL And knows wth he is doing. Just let him do what it is he is going to do. Let Whaley have the draft and the rest off the offseason before the bashing begins.

 

Jesus Goddell see what happens when you move the draft? Put it back where it belongs!

[FireChan]

We were basically a 4-3 team last year under Pettine.

 

But it's pretty simple minded to think that because Wannstedt and Schwartz both run 4-3 defenses that they are exactly the same and will yield the same results.

 

That's not what he said.

Edited April 27, 2014 by FireChan

[Bangarang]

 

 

That's not what he said.

 

How is it not what he said? Better yet, explain to me what he said.

[Optometric Insight]

We ran a hybrid defense so its not like our defense is no stranger to the 4-3 and its techniques. We have Hughes and Williams, which i believe to be two pretty solid DEs, and I am pretty confident with the our backup DEs, more so than our Linebackers. Our front 7 will be way better in 4-3 than in the 3-4.

 

And you need your guys to win one on one match-ups in any scheme.

 

That's not what he said.

I think the saying is "That's what she said"

[DOGNESS]

We were basically a 4-3 team last year under Pettine.

 

But it's pretty simple minded to think that because Wannstedt and Schwartz both run 4-3 defenses that they are exactly the same and will yield the same results.

Actually your missing my point on a couple fronts. The concern about the 4-3 on my end is that we dont have the personnel for a traditional 4-3. We did not run a traditional 4-3 last year. Schwartz didnt run a hybrid scheme when he was in Detroit or Tennessee. My second concern is that Schwartz success asa d-coordinator goes back 5-10 years. This game changes quickly as we and Dave Wannstadt learned the hard way. I dont care what scheme they run so long as it fits the personel of this team and I think you need another DE( 6'4' 280 lbs type player) to run Schwartzs scheme. I also dont buy into this we have to learn to beat people one on one. The game has changed. Scheming is more important than ever to get to the QB. The days of lining them up and rushing everyone straight up the field are over unless you have elite talent. I think we have some pretty solid players but not the kind where you can just send 4 guys straight up the field and expect to get to the QB. Pettine was a master at creating mismatches. That shouldnt be ignored. Not saying Schwartz is terrible, just voicing concerns over some of his comments. He sounds just like Wannstadt did when he got the job(from a philosophical stand point). Edited April 27, 2014 by DOGNESS

[Dragonborn10]

Agree they played mostly 4-3 last year. They rarely lined up in a 3-4. Perhaps if Carrington had stayed healthy they would have played more 3-4. Oh yeah and Pettine's scheme couldn't stop the run any better or worse than the last four DC's they have had. The problem is Kyle Williams is terrible at stopping the run and the Bills have played guys the size of strong safeties at MLB. Whaley/Schwartz have already upgraded the defense by moving Kiko outside and signing Spikes.

[DOGNESS]

How is it not what he said? Better yet, explain to me what he said.

I just did.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

If it gets Brady saying "Clever girl" I don't care. Especially if he gets mauled immediately afterward.

[Wayne Cubed]

May I suggest a bit of light reading? His definitions of positions are a little off, but it's a solid article.

 

http://forgedinbuffa...int-4-3-fronts/

 

EDIT: Or better yet, read the article from Mat Bowen. It'll help you understand what teams like SF, Seattle are doing with the 4-3. I don't think Schwartz ever has said he would run a "traditional" 4-3 where you just line guys up at there position and do nothing else.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[mannc]

When they first hired Schwartz I thought it was a good move. Then he switched to a 4-3(even though we dont have two dolid DE's to justify that move) and started talking about how scheme is less important and you need your guys to win one on one battles. He is starting to remind me way to much of Dave Wannstadt. Somebody put my mind at ease and tell me why I shouldnt expect this defense to drop back into the 20's where it usually is.

I agree. Schwartz has had a terrible offseason. He should be fired.

[CSBill]

I have my doubts about him, but I do hope he proves me wrong, very wrong.

[NoSaint]

Dear God stop, just stop. Seattle and SF play 4-3 defenses. 4-3 is still the best IMHO. This Hybrid **** has still = we can't stop the damn run and we still have a sub .500 record. How about we just pick a damn defense and kick ass with it? JS was one of the best DC's in the NFL And knows wth he is doing. Just let him do what it is he is going to do. Let Whaley have the draft and the rest off the offseason before the bashing begins.

 

Jesus Goddell see what happens when you move the draft? Put it back where it belongs!

 

I guess the worry is for many years he wasn't one of the best DCs around.... Atleast statistically.

 

He was low ranked for a long time in Tennessee (basically every year that haynesworth wasn't playing like 100m man), and his teams in Detroit weren't as good as his reputation either. His rush defense for instance was ranked highly on total yards but that was because of the low number of carries faced. His ypc allowed was pretty middle of the pack.

 

That's not to say he can't be successful but 1-1 battles, low blitz percentage 43 is his MO in the past. Good or bad, philosophically, his schemes had a lot in common with wanny- lets hope Mario is healthy, kw is healthy, Marcell isn't dealing with tragedy and our other DE isn't on IR immediately... With talent it can be an effective scheme (see giants, or a few of schwartzs better years) but it asks a lot of the front 4 and we need them to be 100%. If he's sticking around, expect us to invest heavily in the front four year in and year out.

 

Or maybe he takes a left turn philosophically.... We will see

Edited April 27, 2014 by NoSaint

[DOGNESS]

Dear God stop, just stop. Seattle and SF play 4-3 defenses. 4-3 is still the best IMHO. This Hybrid **** has still = we can't stop the damn run and we still have a sub .500 record. How about we just pick a damn defense and kick ass with it? JS was one of the best DC's in the NFL And knows wth he is doing. Just let him do what it is he is going to do. Let Whaley have the draft and the rest off the offseason before the bashing begins.

 

Jesus Goddell see what happens when you move the draft? Put it back where it belongs!

Nobody is bashing anyone. Just raising some concerns. Didnt say Schwartz was the anti christ. Last I checked hes not best buds with Marylin Manson. Lets just calm down people. I love the Bills as much as you. I hope we get 60 sacks and give up 50 yds a game on the ground this year. Then my concerns will fade away.

 

I agree. Schwartz has had a terrible offseason. He should be fired.

I think your over reacting just a bit.

[NoSaint]

Nobody is bashing anyone. Just raising some concerns. Didnt say Schwartz was the anti christ. Last I checked hes not best buds with Marylin Manson. Lets just calm down people. I love the Bills as much as you. I hope we get 60 sacks and give up 50 yds a game on the ground this year. Then my concerns will fade away.

 

I believe the most sacks Schwartz has had from his defense was mid 40s (if I recall his career range was like 32 or 33 low to 44 as a high between tenessee and Detroit)

[YoloinOhio]

Actually your missing my point on a couple fronts. The concern about the 4-3 on my end is that we dont have the personnel for a traditional 4-3. We did not run a traditional 4-3 last year. Schwartz didnt run a hybrid scheme when he was in Detroit or Tennessee. My second concern is that Schwartz success asa d-coordinator goes back 5-10 years. This game changes quickly as we and Dave Wannstadt learned the hard way. I dont care what scheme they run so long as it fits the personel of this team and I think you need another DE( 6'4' 280 lbs type player) to run Schwartzs scheme. I also dont buy into this we have to learn to beat people one on one. The game has changed. Scheming is more important than ever to get to the QB. The days of lining them up and rushing everyone straight up the field are over unless you have elite talent. I think we have some pretty solid players but not the kind where you can just send 4 guys straight up the field and expect to get to the QB. Pettine was a master at creating mismatches. That shouldnt be ignored. Not saying Schwartz is terrible, just voicing concerns over some of his comments. He sounds just like Wannstadt did when he got the job(from a philosophical stand point).

The Bills made moves in FA and will draft accordingly to what Schwartz wants to run. We had a 4-3 in 2012 and had the personnel then, The only guy we lost since then outside of Byrd was Carrington, correct? Replaced with Branch. Why do you think we don't have the right personnel? Serious question, I feel like I am missing something,

[DOGNESS]

I guess the worry is for many years he wasn't one of the best DCs around.... Atleast statistically.

 

He was low ranked for a long time in Tennessee (basically every year that haynesworth wasn't playing like 100m man), and his teams in Detroit weren't as good as his reputation either. His rush defense for instance was ranked highly on total yards but that was because of the low number of carries faced. His ypc allowed was pretty middle of the pack.

 

That's not to say he can't be successful but 1-1 battles, low blitz percentage 43 is his MO in the past. Good or bad, philosophically, his schemes had a lot in common with wanny- lets hope Mario is healthy, kw is healthy, Marcell isn't dealing with tragedy and our other DE isn't on IR immediately... With talent it can be an effective scheme (see giants, or a few of schwartzs better years) but it asks a lot of the front 4 and we need them to be 100%. If he's sticking around, expect us to invest heavily in the front four year in and year out.

Hopefully Schwartz took a look at Pettines playbook and adopted some of it. He doesnt have to be pettine but he should be open minded enough to consider expanding his playbook from ten years ago.

[YoloinOhio]

Hopefully Schwartz took a look at Pettines playbook and adopted some of it. He doesnt have to be pettine but he should be open minded enough to consider expanding his playbook from ten years ago.

He has been coaching continuously since then... just because he was in the HC role doesn't mean he didn't have any input into what Gunther Cunningham was doing. I assume Cunningham was running his scheme. He had to give up a lot of the defense-specific responsibility, but it isn't like he was off coaching TEs for the last 10 years! Edited April 27, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[DOGNESS]

The Bills made moves in FA and will draft accordingly to what Schwartz wants to run. We had a 4-3 in 2012 and had the personnel then, The only guy we lost since then outside of Byrd was Carrington, correct? Replaced with Branch. Why do you think we don't have the right personnel? Serious question, I feel like I am missing something,

Did you watch the defense in 2012? 22nd in the league. If anything your validating my concerns.