Kirby Jackson Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I was just thinking it's time to merge this baby, but page 1 will throw people for a loop in the Manziel thread. Sorry Beerball but after today's rumors every thread is going to spin off into some sort of Johnny Football thread. Can the draft just get here already?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I was just thinking it's time to merge this baby, but page 1 will throw people for a loop in the Manziel thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 This is kind of where I am at. If the question is "would you rather Johnny or EJ" it's Johnny 100 times out of 100. There is not 1 thing on the football field that I think that EJ does better than Johnny. He is bigger but ended up with 3 (I lost track) knee surgeries last year. What good is size of you can't stay healthy? I didn't think that Johnny was a realistic possibility but I would think that he is indeed the target if they were to trade up with Houston. If Johnny Football is such a sure thing, why would Houston (who clearly needs a QB) entertain trading out of the #1 slot? The answer is that he isn't a sure thing and since this is a deep draft with so many underclassmen declared, they'd like to pick up extra picks to get more good young talented players. some people think that 13 is an unlucky number Especially on Fridays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 If Johnny Football is such a sure thing, why would Houston (who clearly needs a QB) entertain trading out of the #1 slot? The answer is that he isn't a sure thing and since this is a deep draft with so many underclassmen declared, they'd like to pick up extra picks to get more good young talented players. Its always smart to entertain all options Personally, i think Houston would be very foolish to let Manziel leave the state of Texas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 If Johnny Football is such a sure thing, why would Houston (who clearly needs a QB) entertain trading out of the #1 slot? The answer is that he isn't a sure thing and since this is a deep draft with so many underclassmen declared, they'd like to pick up extra picks to get more good young talented players. Especially on Fridays. Nobody is a sure thing at certain points guys like Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry, Glen Dorsey were considered sure things. Outside of Andrew Luck I can't think of one QB who was considered can't miss. I'd love the Bills to take Manziel, I don't think it'll happen. If a team is trading up to the top pick for anything other than a QB, Whaley has to go. Clowney would have to be better than Bruce Smith to justify the trade. With that said Ramses Barden is the guy the Bills should bank on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Nobody is a sure thing at certain points guys like Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry, Glen Dorsey were considered sure things. Outside of Andrew Luck I can't think of one QB who was considered can't miss. I'd love the Bills to take Manziel, I don't think it'll happen. If a team is trading up to the top pick for anything other than a QB, Whaley has to go. Clowney would have to be better than Bruce Smith to justify the trade. With that said Ramses Barden is the guy the Bills should bank on? Elway, Aikman, and Peyton were. Is Manziel of that caliber? Hell No! Edited March 29, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Elway, Aikman, and Peyton were. Is Manziel of that caliber? Hell No! I wasn't around for Elway or Aikman but their was a debate over Manning or Leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) If Johnny Football is such a sure thing, why would Houston (who clearly needs a QB) entertain trading out of the #1 slot? The answer is that he isn't a sure thing and since this is a deep draft with so many underclassmen declared, they'd like to pick up extra picks to get more good young talented players. I never said that he was a sure thing. I said that I like him a lot more than I like EJ. He has better instincts, athleticism, throws the deep ball better, is more accurate, sees the field better, has had more success and superior leadership qualities. There really isn't one thing that I think that EJ does better. That's all that I was getting at. If I had a choice of one or the other I wouldn't spend a second debating. I would imagine that most personnel people would agree. Edited March 29, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I wasn't around for Elway or Aikman but their there was a debate over Manning or Leaf. Emotional maturity was the big difference between Manning and Leaf. Polian got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pills -N- Bills Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Everyone saying he can't throw from the pocket is wrong he led all major conferences in completion % from the pocket I think it was around 76%. Also led in tds and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Emotional maturity was the big difference between Manning and Leaf. Polian got that right. Manning is an all-time great. I wouldn't argue it was a big difference but I think factors such as organization and structure come into play. Polian traded Faulk to St Louis when it was rumored Miami was offering more. Also he took James over Ricky Williams. Manziel is not Peyton Manning and comparing any QB to him is unfair IMO. I think Manziel is a better prospect than Manuel. The guy i'd compare him to is RG3. Year one I think you'd take RG3 after year two it's up for debate. Edited March 29, 2014 by Section242 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 If anyone would like to do a $100 charity bet on JF I am in, we can do best of over/unders for wins, completion %, YPA, YPC, TDs, INTs, PATD, RUTD, PAYARDS, RUYARDS, Fumble Lost, PARATING ect... PM me to finalize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Step....away....from the crackpipe....slowly... No way the Bills head into next season counting on Ramses Barden. You have to draft another receiver with his skillset to compete. Not saying it's going to be Watkins or Evans, because personally i see them drafting OT in the first round. but 2nd or third they are going to take receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 If they're trading up to #1 it's for Clowney or Mack IMO. I doubt it would happen as the price is too high, but if they do it's for Clowney. Mario's contract balloons in the coming years, and Clowney fits Schwartz scheme. It is salivating to think about that line with Clowney, Williams, Williams, and Dareus. We just have too many needs I don't see it happening. We're not one player away from the playoffs. We need another smart draft like the last couple of years, and we'll compete in 2015. With a good draft we go 8-8, to 9-7 in 2014. By 2015 Brady is 38, and we finally take them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) I never said that he was a sure thing. I said that I like him a lot more than I like EJ. He has better instincts, athleticism, throws the deep ball better, is more accurate, sees the field better, has had more success and superior leadership qualities. There really isn't one thing that I think that EJ does better. That's all that I was getting at. If I had a choice of one or the other I wouldn't spend a second debating. I would imagine that most personnel people would agree. I agree that Manziel is accurate. I think he will be a good NFL QB, I just question how long he will last from an injury standpoint. Although he compares to Favre in his style and Wilson in his height, both of these QBs are much thicker in their frames. My opinion is that he will be good but I think he is more of a project than many other people think... as in he won't light the league on fire or take a team that was bad like the Browns to the playoffs right away. I think he will need to be developed into more of a pocket passer in order to not get hit so much that he is on the sideline. One of the more intriguing prospects in as long as I can remember. Edited March 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Ramses Barden? lmao. Yeah, and Ronnie Wingo is the next Eric Dickerson. We're not one player away from the playoffs. With all due respect, I highly disagree. With a top-5 running game and a top-10 defense, we should be in the playoffs. It all comes down to QB play, if Manuel plays well this year, and the defense matches last year...the Bills will be in the playoffs. Get him a security blanket, and watch how he develops...I do think the RIGHT player, will propel this team into contention for a wild card spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Relies on his running and improv skills far too much. Shows no pocket discipline when it comes to reading through progressions. He's just the latest gadget, runaround QB who's game doesn't translate to the NFL. To be successful in the NFL you must be a disciplined, accurate pocket passer who can in the face of pressure deliver the ball into very tight windows with timing, touch, and anticipation. See Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Manning. The QB we took in the first round last year wasn't known for any of this (and we saw why this season)--I'm assuming you were against drafting EJ last year? I agree that Manziel is accurate. I think he will be a good NFL QB, I just question how long he will last from an injury standpoint. Although he compares to Favre in his style and Wilson in his height, both of these QBs are much thicker in their frames. My opinion is that he will be good but I think he is more of a project than many other people think... as in he won't light the league on fire or take a team that was bad like the Browns to the playoffs right away. I think he will need to be developed into more of a pocket passer in order to not get hit so much that he is on the sideline. One of the more intriguing prospects in as long as I can remember. Mike Vick lasted a long time as one of the tiniest QBs ever. Also, for all the noise about how he played with "2 top 10 LTs", JM ran a lot and scrambled because his protection was otherwise not so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I think it's very smart to trade up 8 spots to #1 overall for a RT. Think of the assets and multiple 1ST round picks it wiuld take to give up for that. B wahaha. I swear if the bills would ever fo anything that dumb they deserve to relocate to LA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I didn't say it was smart or stupid. I just don't think it's far fetched. I think it is stupid for a team to pay the price it will likely take to get to #1 and draft anything other than a Qb I agree that QB is the most important position, but I disagree that it would never make sense to trade up to #1 for any other position. If some team thinks Jadaveon Clowney will be as good as Bruce Smith was, then I would say it would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) The QB we took in the first round last year wasn't known for any of this (and we saw why this season)--I'm assuming you were against drafting EJ last year? Mike Vick lasted a long time as one of the tiniest QBs ever. Also, for all the noise about how he played with "2 top 10 LTs", JM ran a lot and scrambled because his protection was otherwise not so great. He is slightly actually bigger than Manziel. Listed at 215 (Manziel listed at 209). Vick has smaller hands though. Vick seems to be pretty injury prone? Maybe you meant he has had a long career? I was referring to concerns over Manziel's duration throughout a season. This is a concern that has been mentioned a lot... I think it really has more to do with playing style than size though, the size just increases the concern a bit. I'm not criticizing Manziel, just noting he may be a bit of a project as an NFL QB. Edited March 30, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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