What coaches should be let go?

[Buftex]

They don't even have one season under their belts ... so none of them.

 

But ... why is no one calling for Pettine's head? First, allow me to answer my own question - "Because you heard of him before the Bills got him."

 

Now I'll point out that our defense is - BY FAR - the worst unit on this team. They can't stop the run. They can't stop teams on third downs. They can't defend the deep ball. They get costly penalties every single game. Oh ... and they give up a boat load of points.

 

But go ahead and point out Special Teams and Offense. Brilliant.

 

Back to Off the Wall, I go.

 

Gung...I agree, the defense has major issues...but they really have been the reason, for all their warts, that the Bills were fairly competitive for most games this season. I would say special teams are the worst unit...outside of Carpenter, they have been awful all season, except "pre". The offense has been unable to make plays, more often than not, when they needed them most. Like I said, the defense has some major problems (still), but they have been the brightest spot of this season for me...which, I suppose isn't saying a whole lot. If nothing else, they have made (most) games, at least, entertaining.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Buftex

[Buftex]

No one is going anywhere, including crossman. that's just the reality of the situation.

 

I have a hunch there will be some changes on the coaching staff, along with the starting players. Unless these guys (Whaley, Marrone) are completely full of ****, they have promised the "status quo" is not going to be tolerated. If coaches are in over their heads, they have to be let go too.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

 

I have a hunch there will be some changes on the coaching staff, along with the starting players. Unless these guys (Whaley, Marrone) are completely full of ****, they have promised the "status quo" is not going to be tolerated. If coaches are in over their heads, they have to be let go too.

 

I don't know. This was year 1, and none of the units were so horrendous to call for a firing after one year. Even ST. I would be really surprised if anyone was fired.

[Rob's House]

I'm not going to pile on Hackett b/c I don't think it would be fair, but regardless of how much of the offensive woes are attributable to him, I can't help but question the wisdom of a rookie HC with a rookie QB bringing on a rookie OC. Wouldn't you at least want someone on that side of the ball with some NFL experience and history of success?

[CardinalScotts]

Im all for the OC AND ST coach.

 

ya three quarterbacks in 9 games come on dude. It's comments like this that make it hard to respect opinions.

special teams have been poor, but it's not the X's and O's it's who they have. No depth at LB's or RB's to play on coverage who's going to run guys down besides Easley

Edited December 12, 2013 by CardinalScotts

[3rdand12]

The coaching staff this year has been a disappointment. At the least they should be told their work is unsatisfactory if they get fewer than eight wins, okay if they get six, and they are all on the hot seat with fewer than six. Next year's expectation is the playoffs and they had better sit down and give themselves a talking to as to whether they have the will or skill to make a run for it.

Believe me now and hear me later. I think Marrone has already sent that message this week

 

I think that Crossman is the most obvious answer and the 1st to go. He has proven himself inept at his job with multiple teams already. The Bills have a good gunner, kicker and return men and play bad special teams. In addition, they commit a million penalties. He will be (and rightfully so) the 1st to fall on the sword. Will it be this offseason? I don't know.

should be . I expect him to be THE Tashard Choice to the Stevie Johnson/Scott Chandler. "you are losing us games " example.

he had to hire someone. Lets see what Doug has learned about accountability and how he deals with it at the Coaching level

Edited December 12, 2013 by 3rdand12

[thewildrabbit]

ya three quarterbacks in 9 games come on dude. It's comments like this that make it hard to respect opinions.

special teams have been poor, but it's not the X's and O's it's who they have. No depth at LB's or RB's to play on coverage who's going to run guys down besides Easley

Special Teams aside. Take a look at what prompted the debacle in Tampa.

 

Bills defense gave up a quick score to the Buc's.

 

1st play, pass incomplete

2nd play, Spiller run, no gain

3rd play, EJ scramble for 8 yards

4th play punt...roughing the kicker 15 yard penalty 1st down

5th play, shotgun pass 4 yards

6th play, Jackson run 1 yard

7th play, pass incomplete

8th play, punt

 

The run game got one yard that first series

 

next series

shotgun, pass Johnson 10 yards, penalty 15 yards

Shotgun, run Spiller 2 yards

shotgun, pass Chandler 15 yards

shotgun, run Jackson 4 yards

shotgun, pass EJ sacked

shotgun, pass incomplete

FG

 

Run game got 2 carries, 6 yards

 

Next series

Pass, EJ sacked

shotgun pass incomplete

no huddle shotgun, pass EJ sacked

punt

 

run game 0 carries, 0 yards

 

next series

shotgun scramble 7 yards

shotgun pass, Johnson 11 yards

no huddle shotgun run Spiller 7 yards

no huddle shotgun, pass intercepted

 

run game, one carry for 7 yards

 

next series

shotgun run, Spiller. holding call -10

shotgun pass 7 yards

no huddle shotgun pass intercepted

 

run game, one carry 0 yards

 

next series

pass incomplete

no huddle run Spiller -1 yard

no huddle shotgun EJ sacked

punt

 

run game one carry -one yard

 

next series

Run Spiller no gain

pass Johnson 7 yards

pass incomplete

shotgun run Jackson 4 yards

shotgun pass incomplete

punt

 

run game 2 carries, 4 yards

 

So the first half went, Punt, FG, Punt, INT,INT, Punt, Punt, end of half Buc's 24- Bills 3

 

28 plays, 8 carries for 14 yards rushing for the entire first half. The Bills couldn't run the ball (although they didn't try very much) so they force the rookie QB to try and win it.

 

22 rushes for 67 yards, and only one first down rushing all game

 

So, there is no problem with the offense, or offensive play calling?

[CardinalScotts]

Special Teams aside. Take a look at what prompted the debacle in Tampa.

 

Bills defense gave up a quick score to the Buc's.

 

1st play, pass incomplete

2nd play, Spiller run, no gain

3rd play, EJ scramble for 8 yards

4th play punt...roughing the kicker 15 yard penalty 1st down

5th play, shotgun pass 4 yards

6th play, Jackson run 1 yard

7th play, pass incomplete

8th play, punt

 

The run game got one yard that first series

 

next series

shotgun, pass Johnson 10 yards, penalty 15 yards

Shotgun, run Spiller 2 yards

shotgun, pass Chandler 15 yards

shotgun, run Jackson 4 yards

shotgun, pass EJ sacked

shotgun, pass incomplete

FG

 

Run game got 2 carries, 6 yards

 

Next series

Pass, EJ sacked

shotgun pass incomplete

no huddle shotgun, pass EJ sacked

punt

 

run game 0 carries, 0 yards

 

next series

shotgun scramble 7 yards

shotgun pass, Johnson 11 yards

no huddle shotgun run Spiller 7 yards

no huddle shotgun, pass intercepted

 

run game, one carry for 7 yards

 

next series

shotgun run, Spiller. holding call -10

shotgun pass 7 yards

no huddle shotgun pass intercepted

 

run game, one carry 0 yards

 

next series

pass incomplete

no huddle run Spiller -1 yard

no huddle shotgun EJ sacked

punt

 

run game one carry -one yard

 

next series

Run Spiller no gain

pass Johnson 7 yards

pass incomplete

shotgun run Jackson 4 yards

shotgun pass incomplete

punt

 

run game 2 carries, 4 yards

 

So the first half went, Punt, FG, Punt, INT,INT, Punt, Punt, end of half Buc's 24- Bills 3

 

28 plays, 8 carries for 14 yards rushing for the entire first half. The Bills couldn't run the ball (although they didn't try very much) so they force the rookie QB to try and win it.

 

22 rushes for 67 yards, and only one first down rushing all game

 

So, there is no problem with the offense, or offensive play calling?

I think the game plan was to throw it alot, bucs are 8th against the run I believe

[Gugny]

I love arrogant high post counts.

 

 

4.2 YPC, which is middle of the league. The last couple weeks have damaged this.

 

 

Ridiculously false. The Bills defense has been top 10 in the league in allowing 1st downs all season, and this is with facing the 5th most snaps in the league. The exception was just the Atlanta game, which is where this point started.

 

 

False, again. This defense is among the best in not allowing 20+ yard passes and in pass yardage allowed per play. This is a bit biased toward the Bills since they're a losing team and they haven't faced the best passing offenses, but still. Now I know that in the happy homerland box up there where you care about Marrone's babble and want to run 2 TE power sets, you don't understand that EVERY defense gives up big plays because that's the league now. Pass defenses can't do anything. Awful PI calls happen every game. It's not 1980 anymore.

 

 

Yeah, but all areas of the team are guilty of this. And that's not a Pettine thing, that's a Marrone thing. ACCOUNTABILITY.

 

 

Not really, 16th in the league defensively. 21st overall in points allowed. And that's with defending the 5th most plays, again.

 

 

Off The Wall must be, also. Please go back there.

 

Okay. I use stats to back up my arguments all the time. You're right. The stats do not back up my assertions. You've made your points. But you turned out to be the arrogant one. There's a way to get your point across without being a dick. Give it a shot.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Special Teams aside. Take a look at what prompted the debacle in Tampa.

 

Bills defense gave up a quick score to the Buc's.

 

1st play, pass incomplete...

So, there is no problem with the offense, or offensive play calling?

My answer is simple: they should fire whichever coach is not telling them to stop committing penalties.

[Buftex]

My answer is simple: they should fire whichever coach is not telling them to stop committing penalties.

 

That is almost another issue..the Bills have been victims (yeah, I will use that dirty word) of numerous very questionable calls at key times in at least 2 or 3 games..huge calls...not saying they weren't necessarily legit calls, but things that could have easily gone uncalled, and have been, prior... don't want to use that as an excuse, but how do you tell DBs (especially) who have made great plays to "stop" because they "might" misconstrue your efforts as illegal play.

[Santana]

I know i'm gonna catch hell for this but honestly why not just start all over. I mean lets just be brutally honest about this whole situation, the organization made a bad hire. It's gotten to the point where the team isn't even showing up anymore and unfortunately that's a major reflection of the coaching staff as a whole. They way I look at it, why not? and unfortunately there's a very good chance we finish with a worse record than we had a year ago. I might sound like i'm overreacting but why should we wait for results just because it he's a new coach, or because we have a rookie QB, or so on and so forth. I don't see other teams around the league having the same mindset and empty expectations like we do. And if they do, they're a losing franchise too. To have the amount of talent that we do and a essentially a pretty healthy team over the past 4 weeks it makes me question the lack of leadership. It all starts from the top, players are players and yes you have to have those few in the locker room but the leadership comes from the coach first and foremost. Just a tought. Go Bills!!

[#34fan]

How about WRs coach? Their play has been really inconsistent.

 

Yes, Please!

 

Hilliard's receiver corp was a total disappointment this season. If we can find a better replacement, Ike should definitely take a hike.

[thewildrabbit]

I think the game plan was to throw it alot, bucs are 8th against the run I believe

I think the problem is this OC is just like Chan Gailey in that he is damned and defiant about making the pass game work, regardless.To me, the best players by far on offense are Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller and if you find a creative way to get those two in space, well its game over for the opponents defense.

 

So the Buc's have been a good run defense, then just concede the run game and force the rookie to pass more. So, if the pass game isn't working there is no plan B?

 

Toss sweeps, end arounds, traps, whams, power runs, inside leads, weakside leads, power trey, counter trey, tight zone, stretch zone, draws, lead draw, or at least spread the offense out if your going to run it from the shotgun so often.

 

It just seems to me that this OC basically calls the same runs up the middle over and over and if they don't work he makes the QB throw. EJ stated they had not seen the Tampa 2 defense very often, and therefor had not practiced against it very much. Well how the eff did they prepare to beat the Buc's D then? Coaching fails all over the freaking place!

[thewildrabbit]

To me this new Bills OC is so obsessed with the passing game and focusing all his energy on scheming his way out of all the different blitzes that teams do when his offense gets behind in points. He simply forgets that a good run game is a very strong deterrent to the pass rush.

 

There is a reason the read option offense works so well recently in the NFL as it forces the QB to actually do something bedsides stand there and watch the play develop. Meaning that the QB counterpart can't just assault the runner, as he has to account for what the QB is going to do. If you are afraid EJ is going to get hurt, then allow Thad Lewis to run the option, or let Fred Jackson run it.

 

I mean, do something besides letting your rookie QB drown so badly, and thus killing his confidence, ruining him.

[billsfan_34]

 

 

I don't know. This was year 1, and none of the units were so horrendous to call for a firing after one year. Even ST. I would be really surprised if anyone was fired.

ST was awful, worse than awful. The only bright spot was carpenter. We never took one to the house or gave good field position. After our first few weeks of the season our coverage was terrible too. And our defense was putrid. The offense was a predictable joke.

 

I know i'm gonna catch hell for this but honestly why not just start all over. I mean lets just be brutally honest about this whole situation, the organization made a bad hire. It's gotten to the point where the team isn't even showing up anymore and unfortunately that's a major reflection of the coaching staff as a whole. They way I look at it, why not? and unfortunately there's a very good chance we finish with a worse record than we had a year ago. I might sound like i'm overreacting but why should we wait for results just because it he's a new coach, or because we have a rookie QB, or so on and so forth. I don't see other teams around the league having the same mindset and empty expectations like we do. And if they do, they're a losing franchise too. To have the amount of talent that we do and a essentially a pretty healthy team over the past 4 weeks it makes me question the lack of leadership. It all starts from the top, players are players and yes you have to have those few in the locker room but the leadership comes from the coach first and foremost. Just a tought. Go Bills!!

Spot on man

[RuntheDamnBall]

That is almost another issue..the Bills have been victims (yeah, I will use that dirty word) of numerous very questionable calls at key times in at least 2 or 3 games..huge calls...not saying they weren't necessarily legit calls, but things that could have easily gone uncalled, and have been, prior... don't want to use that as an excuse, but how do you tell DBs (especially) who have made great plays to "stop" because they "might" misconstrue your efforts as illegal play.

It was kind of a joke, but yes, I agree. Now, is that statistically consistent with what happens to other teams? I have to say not entirely, because we've seen the Pats go a few games without getting ANY called on them.

 

I know i'm gonna catch hell for this but honestly why not just start all over.

You should catch hell for this. The way this team played through the first 8-9 weeks before they were "out of it" says to me that the problem lies in some players.

 

I think Crossman has been awful, but I can't say that this team hasn't come to play, until the last few weeks. You can put that on Marrone, if you want, but I am not sure that Harbaugh would have fixed all that is wrong here in a year. A lot of people around the NFL liked this hire and I'd like to give it time. If Sean Payton sees something in the guy, it means something to me.

[3rdand12]

It was kind of a joke, but yes, I agree. Now, is that statistically consistent with what happens to other teams? I have to say not entirely, because we've seen the Pats go a few games without getting ANY called on them.

 

 

You should catch hell for this. The way this team played through the first 8-9 weeks before they were "out of it" says to me that the problem lies in some players.

 

I think Crossman has been awful, but I can't say that this team hasn't come to play, until the last few weeks. You can put that on Marrone, if you want, but I am not sure that Harbaugh would have fixed all that is wrong here in a year. A lot of people around the NFL liked this hire and I'd like to give it time. If Sean Payton sees something in the guy, it means something to me.

How quickly we forget last season.

i dont think anyone is satisfied with where the Bills are right now .

But it takes longer than 13 weeks for a new team to get its footing . And i expect there are some more hard lessons coming . But i still am on board with Marrone specifically.. He might have some hard decisions to make at the end of the season as to coaches . But i think he is not going to shy away from that .

 

I am always surprised when people say Coach Marrone is inept or useless or something to that effect.

I've found him to be the opposite . He seems very motivated , organized dialed in , focused and probably a bit stubborn in principal .Dont fin him to be anyones fool thats for sure. How he sorts out the multiple problems the team is having , from coaching to players et al is what has my keen interest is. and hope to see some form of recovery this week. and next week after that. That was a very poor showing last week for sure

[Rob's House]

How quickly we forget last season.

i dont think anyone is satisfied with where the Bills are right now .

But it takes longer than 13 weeks for a new team to get its footing . And i expect there are some more hard lessons coming . But i still am on board with Marrone specifically.. He might have some hard decisions to make at the end of the season as to coaches . But i think he is not going to shy away from that .

 

I am always surprised when people say Coach Marrone is inept or useless or something to that effect.

I've found him to be the opposite . He seems very motivated , organized dialed in , focused and probably a bit stubborn in principal .Dont fin him to be anyones fool thats for sure. How he sorts out the multiple problems the team is having , from coaching to players et al is what has my keen interest is. and hope to see some form of recovery this week. and next week after that. That was a very poor showing last week for sure

 

You may be right, but it looks really bad for him after last week. The team has regressed as the season has worn on, there is a glaring lack of discipline, and they just got used by a team that had been left for dead (though admittedly has played much better over the last month). Worse, the team consistently chokes away would be/could be/should be wins in close games - that's generally a product of a team's mentality rather than talent. Some may disagree, but I see the team's collective mentality largely as a reflection of the coach. The icing on the cake was after Sunday's humiliation when he's talking about accountability and the players are making excuses.

 

To be fair, like EJ, he's a rookie. There are going to be growing pains. There's a good chance he'll learn from his mistakes, get control of the team, and turn the ship around. He may need another season or two to really build the team in his image with his guys. He's all but certain to get the chance. It just doesn't look good right now. And this isn't the franchise to expect patience from through multiple losing seasons of another so-called rebuild.

[FireChan]

How quickly we forget last season.

i dont think anyone is satisfied with where the Bills are right now .

But it takes longer than 13 weeks for a new team to get its footing . And i expect there are some more hard lessons coming . But i still am on board with Marrone specifically.. He might have some hard decisions to make at the end of the season as to coaches . But i think he is not going to shy away from that .

 

I am always surprised when people say Coach Marrone is inept or useless or something to that effect.

I've found him to be the opposite . He seems very motivated , organized dialed in , focused and probably a bit stubborn in principal .Dont fin him to be anyones fool thats for sure. How he sorts out the multiple problems the team is having , from coaching to players et al is what has my keen interest is. and hope to see some form of recovery this week. and next week after that. That was a very poor showing last week for sure

 

This team looks like Chan's team in week 14. Lifeless. I don't think we've forgotten it, just the opposite. We are reminded too much of past regimes already. In year 1.