The Curse of Flutie?

[dave mcbride]

 

I hated Flutie then I hate him now. Their is no such thing as a curse. Stop being like the cry babies from Boston and all their Curse of the Bambino crap

Why do you hate him? He was the last pretty good QB the Bills had, and he was the victorious QB in over 2/3 of the games he played in for the team.

[filthymcnasty08]

I hated Flutie then I hate him now. Their is no such thing as a curse. Stop being like the cry babies from Boston and all their Curse of the Bambino crap

 

Hate him now??? wow.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if its a karma thing….this franchise will never be helped until we can prove that we are ready for it. Some days, it really doesn't seem we are.

[southtampacane]

I was looking around Pro-Football-Reference for some context of how historically bad the Bills last 13 years have been and finally came to the 1999 playoff game. I remember watching the game at the Harp in Boston, but didn't really recall how bad Rob Johnson played that game. I remember thinking that he put that team in a position to win and they actually should have won if not for the illegal forward pass.

 

Anyway, it struck me as surprising at how bad of a game RJ had. Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards. No TDs or INTs. He was also sacked 6 times that led directly to 12 points. First he was sacked and fumbled, Tennessee recovered on the Bills 29. Tenn kicked a FG.

 

Then early in the 2nd quarter, RJ was sacked for a safety and on the ensuing free kick, Tennessee's Mason returned the kick 42 yards to the Bills 28. 5 plays later McNair scored on a one yard run.

 

This is utter BS. If Flutie had done what Rob did in that game, he would have been even bigger than he was. The Bills were missing 3 offensive lineman, and playing the best defense in the league. Sure he struggled in the first half, but he led the Bills to 3 second half scores and if not for the special teams debacle, the play he made on one shoe would be a thing of Buffalo playoff lore. The guy did not have a terrible game, and when he left the field the team was winning and it was because the offense put up 16 points in the 2nd half.

 

Flutie was terrible for a large part of 1999. All his fans trot out the don't tell me about statistics, Flutie just wins garbage. The defense led them to that 10-5 record. Flutie sucked. I wish he had played against the Titans just to shut people up about it. How about the year before when Flutie threw for 360 yards against the Dolphins in the playoff game but fumbled down the stretch and threw two terrible interceptions. I guess he just didn't win that one..but all I ever hear from his fans was how many yards he threw for.

 

Rob may have been a huge mistake to sign to a mega deal, but the guy played hard and was not the reason we lost to the Titans. Play Wade and the special teams for that fiasco. That fat POS can't even admit the play was legal.

 

 

 

We all know what's happened since that game, it's been a complete nightmare and looks like its going to continue for the foreseeable future. This begs the question, did Flutie curse us? Just to be safe, I think the organizations needs to publicly apologize to him.

 

I can't ever remember a situation where a QB started for a playoff team for the first 15 games, then gets told he's going to get a final week off to rest and gets benched in the playoff game. Sounds like Curse material.

 

I know, this is really supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but mostly wanted to pass along what was a minor revelation to me.

 

Some fans still carry around this idea that Flutie was a cancer of some kind. I've asked many many times for a single example of this or any evidence at all that Flutie was a negative influence on the team. I've never received an answer to this.

 

I'm not saying it isn't true. I don't know. I'm just asking. Is there any indication that other Bills players disliked Flutie (besides Rob Johnson)? From my point of view, as a fan, I saw Flute win a bunch of games. He reinvigorated a stale franchise and led the team to two consecutive playoff appearances.

 

I've never understood the hatred for Flutie that many fans have. Please, enlighten me.

 

He divided the locker room and it was well known that when Doug was the starter and Rob was the backup everything was fine. But in 99 when it became clear that Flutie's play was declining things started to turn. The 2000 season was a nightmare and Flutie actually went on TSN in Canada to complain rather than deal with the Buffalo media. When the new coaching staff made both Flutie and Johnson come back to Buffalo in 2001 to speak with Williams and company, Flutie made no secret of his disgust. It is well documented that he basically told the coaches that if he was selected he was playing his game, regardless of the west coast offense they wanted to install. He was every bit the cancer he's been described as.

 

He played great in 1998. No doubt. He did not play great in 1999. In 2000 he wasn't the starter and pouted or took shots at Johnson in the media. That is why he got cut. He's a cancer when things don't go well.

[dubs]

 

 

 

 

He divided the locker room and it was well known that when Doug was the starter and Rob was the backup everything was fine. But in 99 when it became clear that Flutie's play was declining things started to turn. The 2000 season was a nightmare and Flutie actually went on TSN in Canada to complain rather than deal with the Buffalo media. When the new coaching staff made both Flutie and Johnson come back to Buffalo in 2001 to speak with Williams and company, Flutie made no secret of his disgust. It is well documented that he basically told the coaches that if he was selected he was playing his game, regardless of the west coast offense they wanted to install. He was every bit the cancer he's been described as.

 

He played great in 1998. No doubt. He did not play great in 1999. In 2000 he wasn't the starter and pouted or took shots at Johnson in the media. That is why he got cut. He's a cancer when things don't go well.

 

How does one explain the difference is records for Flutie and Johnson during the 2000 season?

 

I know Flutie is/was a polarizing guy. What I find astounding is that now that we have the benefit of hindsight, how anyone could put those two guys in the same category. While Flutie was short and unorthodox, the team won a lot more than they lost. When Rob was in there, as prototypical as he was, the team lost, and lost a lot.

 

It's almost like saying you'd rather roll with Blaine Gabbert than Russell Wilson.

 

PS - revisionist history is calling the Titans the best defense in the league. They were above average. That's it.

[RuntheDamnBall]

True. However I don't think anyone is saying that Flutie was the second coming of Joe Montana.

They are saying we were going to the Super Bowl with him, which is... a stretch.

[filthymcnasty08]

They are saying we were going to the Super Bowl with him, which is... a stretch.

 

Him, an elite WR, an elite defense, a strong running game….yeah, pretty much looked like we could get there.

[dubs]

 

They are saying we were going to the Super Bowl with him, which is... a stretch.

 

I don't know that I would agree with that speculation. It wasn't impossible, but not certain either.

 

Regardless, taking DF out at that point was lunacy. Looking back on it 14 years later, it's even more puzzling.

[Rob's House]

 

 

 

 

He divided the locker room and it was well known that when Doug was the starter and Rob was the backup everything was fine. But in 99 when it became clear that Flutie's play was declining things started to turn. The 2000 season was a nightmare and Flutie actually went on TSN in Canada to complain rather than deal with the Buffalo media. When the new coaching staff made both Flutie and Johnson come back to Buffalo in 2001 to speak with Williams and company, Flutie made no secret of his disgust. It is well documented that he basically told the coaches that if he was selected he was playing his game, regardless of the west coast offense they wanted to install. He was every bit the cancer he's been described as.

 

He played great in 1998. No doubt. He did not play great in 1999. In 2000 he wasn't the starter and pouted or took shots at Johnson in the media. That is why he got cut. He's a cancer when things don't go well.

 

I don't blame him in the least. For me, the pulling of Flutie in the playoffs, and in 2000, is my worst memory as a fan. More than the SBs. I didn't even follow the Bills in 2001 & I was glad when they lost to the Chargers.

 

Knowing how I felt about it, I can only imagine how Flutie, in his last years, after taking a struggling team to the playoffs twice & making the pro-bowl, to be slighted in the harshest way, and relegated to a back-up (for a guy who sucks, no less) and you expect him to be a good trooper?

 

!@#$ that.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Him, an elite WR, an elite defense, a strong running game….yeah, pretty much looked like we could get there.

Possibly. Or Flutie could have sh-- the bed on the road one of the next two games like he did in Miami. Or Peyton could have rewritten history. Remember that the Jags were excellent that year and the Titans had been the only team to beat them (twice).

 

DOUG FLUTIE HAS AS MANY PLAYOFF WINS AS ROB JOHNSON, PEOPLE.

[Livinginthepast]

Ok, I'll ask one more time. I promise I'll never ask this again on this website: Why was Flutie somehow a cancer or a backstabbing midget or a negative influence in the locker room.

 

Regardless of the quality of his play, why do some fans hold such a grudge against the guy? If I had to pick a Bills QB to hate in the post Kelly era, I could name about 8 guys above Flutie.

A few members of the media floated out this story in the 2000 season that Flutie was a "cancer" in the locker room. I never ever heard any Bills player complain about this at the time or since. Obviously it was total BS. I do remember the main Flutie haters at WGR during this time were Brad Riter and the "coach" Dickerson. They never missed a chance to slag Flutie for his unconventional style, his height or his confidence. All the while ignoring all the success he had brought to the team. Flutie didn't fit the prototype of a "real" NFL QB. I remember the coach constantly lauding the china doll Johnson for no reason other than he hated Flutie. Dickerson lost what little credibility he had after that. It is true that Flutie's success was diminishing down the stretch in 1999 but it wasn't just his arm, it was that the Defensive Coordinators had figured out ways to neutralize him in the NFL with the bigger taller D linemen and less space to roll out with like Flutie had in the CFL. Against the Titans, RJ was absolutely useless in the first half and deserved to be benched. I can remember Steve Young at the halftime show basically telling us to expect Flutie for the 2nd half because RJ was pathetic in the first half, To his credit RJ did up his game in the 2nd half and put us in a position to win but he sure as hell didn't win us the game that hung in the balance. I think Flutie would have won this game for us but Wade couldn't find his cojones and stand up to Ralph!

[Storm Front]

Wade was a yes man: That's probably why Jerry Jones hired him.

[MDH]

I don't blame him in the least. For me, the pulling of Flutie in the playoffs, and in 2000, is my worst memory as a fan. More than the SBs. I didn't even follow the Bills in 2001 & I was glad when they lost to the Chargers.

 

You don't blame him for acting like a petulant child and causing problems and rooted against the Bills in the playoffs.

 

That pretty much explains everything people need to know about your opinion of Flutie. You were a Flutie fan and not a Bills fan. No wonder you get so upset when somebody questions how good he was or the issues he caused.

[Storm Front]

Dude, If it was you, would you stand there on the sidelines looking all happy and giving high fives! C'mon, give me a break. Johnson was never gonna be a winner. Ralph Wilson was a meddling owner who always hurt the team at the worst time.

[4merper4mer]

Dude, If it was you, would you stand there on the sidelines looking all happy and giving high fives! C'mon, give me a break. Johnson was never gonna be a winner. Ralph Wilson was a meddling owner who always hurt the team at the worst time.

 

And I suppose he does it to be mean like Mr. Burns, right?

 

Flutie was playing wonderfully and rainbows were farting out unicorns but Wilson stepped in for no reason. It had nothing to do with the offense being inept for the second half of the season, Wilson just wanted to make sure we had a lifetime of misery.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

And I suppose he does it to be mean like Mr. Burns, right?

 

Flutie was playing wonderfully and rainbows were farting out unicorns but Wilson stepped in for no reason. It had nothing to do with the offense being inept for the second half of the season, Wilson just wanted to make sure we had a lifetime of misery.

Th offense wasn't inept. They went 5-2 in the games he started and his QB rating was 86.1. They averaged 328 yards on offense and 20.3 points in those games as well. Every time you say this, I'm going to call you on it because what you're saying simply isn't true.

[Storm Front]

The sad thing is that 1999 was the last year of good football played by this franchise. They might have been good in 2000, too, but they refused to play Flutie again. When he would come into the games, you'd see that the team was actually pretty good. It just goes to show the importance of good QB play. I wish we could party like it's 1999, but we have had nothing but losers at the most important position on the field for the last 14 years and counting. Is it any coincidence that we've stunk every year since then!!

Edited November 14, 2013 by distortions

[Rob's House]

 

 

You don't blame him for acting like a petulant child and causing problems and rooted against the Bills in the playoffs.

 

That pretty much explains everything people need to know about your opinion of Flutie. You were a Flutie fan and not a Bills fan. No wonder you get so upset when somebody questions how good he was or the issues he caused.

I don't normally care too much if other people have differing opinions on players, & to some extent that's true here, but there's something about a Bills fan trashing Flutie that rubs me the wrong way. It's about how I'd feel if a Bills fan were glowing over how awesome Tom Brady is, or cheering for the Pats. It doesn't add up to me.

 

What's more irritating is the sanctimonious, holier than thou bull **** where anyone who has the audacity to voice displeasure with the way they've been treated is a "petulant child."

 

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter, but if I'm at a bar watching the game, I hope I don't end up on the stool next to you.

[4merper4mer]

 

Th offense wasn't inept. They went 5-2 in the games he started and his QB rating was 86.1. They averaged 328 yards on offense and 20.3 points in those games as well. Every time you say this, I'm going to call you on it because what you're saying simply isn't true.

 

So Mr. Burns took him out to be mean and all those unicorns born of the rainbow up and died right?

[thebandit27]

Can we all at least acknowledge that the Bills were within one covered kickoff of winning that playoff game?

 

To my recollection, in back-to-back years, the team played road playoff games. Flutie had a chance to win the Miami game on the final drive and didn't deliver. The following year, Johnson had a chance to win the Tennessee game on (what we thought was) the final drive and did.

 

That doesn't mean that Johnson was better than Flutie; it's quite obvious who the better player was...my point is that the outrage over the Tennessee game is wildly misplaced. Like him or not, Johnson had that game won when he left the field; this is not up for debate in any way, shape, or form.

 

And, by the way, there's no curse; just blatant mismanagement of the football side of things.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

So Mr. Burns took him out to be mean and all those unicorns born of the rainbow up and died right?

If you want to dig a little deeper, you'll discover that Flutie's weakest stats from that year by far were in games 7 and 8, against the Seahawks and Ravens. He was 42 for 90 for 449 yards, 3 tds, and 5 ints. His rating was 49.7 in those two games. Why was this? Those were the two games that Moulds missed because of a hamstring injury. Moulds was on fire up to that point, and Flutie rightly targeted him.

 

Carry on with the snark though ...