Worst play call ever...

[reddogblitz]

This argument would hold water if they hadn't already tried to run the ball and been stuffed for a loss on 2 consecutive plays.

 

There's nothing wrong with throwing at the 1-yard line on 3rd down and expecting the QB--whoever it is--not to make a gigantic gaffe with the ball.

 

The bolded part is what I disagree with. A coach has to know his players limitations and not set them up to fail. Tuel was in his first start and had already performed several large gaffes in the game. The D is stuffing them and your strength is running the football. In last night's game Super Bowl winning HC John Gruden said with a backup QB you don't want to put the game on their shoulders. Somehow I'm thinking Chuckie doesn't let Tuel Time pass in that situation. The coach can tell the QB not to audible.

[Luxy312]

My problem with this team right now is that they haven't adjusted their play calling for the personnel that they have on the field. These guys are not completely interchangeable. If Freddy and CJ are dinged up, you don't just tote out Choice and give him the ball 25 times. That's exactly what's going on in the passing game unfortunately. They're throwing the ball 32 times a game no matter what happens. Neither Tuel nor Lewis can make the throws. It makes no sense to put the burden on them to make a play, when you got other more talented football players that could potentially make plays. That third down play was a panicked throw at best into coverage when he had an open guy in the end zone. The result is a 14 point swing of the game. Sorry to say, but when teams are -3 in the turnover battle, they lose almost 98% of the time. Bills offense clearly blew the game by virtue of poor play calling and poor execution. I would rather have seen them run the ball twice more and NOT get in the end zone, then let Tuel try to get it in through the air. It's a continuing case of finding ways to lose.

[garbag3man]

My problem with this team right now is that they haven't adjusted their play calling for the personnel that they have on the field. These guys are not completely interchangeable. If Freddy and CJ are dinged up, you don't just tote out Choice and give him the ball 25 times. That's exactly what's going on in the passing game unfortunately. They're throwing the ball 32 times a game no matter what happens. Neither Tuel nor Lewis can make the throws. It makes no sense to put the burden on them to make a play, when you got other more talented football players that could potentially make plays. That third down play was a panicked throw at best into coverage when he had an open guy in the end zone. The result is a 14 point swing of the game. Sorry to say, but when teams are -3 in the turnover battle, they lose almost 98% of the time. Bills offense clearly blew the game by virtue of poor play calling and poor execution. I would rather have seen them run the ball twice more and NOT get in the end zone, then let Tuel try to get it in through the air. It's a continuing case of finding ways to lose.

 

I would say that when a rookie OC is calling plays for his 4th string QB, and dials up an offense that gains 470 yds against the #5 defense in the league, they are calling the plays to suit the players on the field. You can say that the call was wrong, and you know what, it might have been. HOWEVER, that pick wasn't on Hackett, it was on Teul (who played WAY better than I thought he would). He missed our #1 WR WIDE OPEN in the middle of the end zone. There are legitimate complaints on this board about Hackett's play calling, but the guy is taking a team of injured and backup players, and getting a TON of production out of them.

 

He isn't a big name, and he is still learning and growing, but I think he is the best OC we have had in quite some time. He has had three rookie QB's producing with two banged up RB against a schedule of tough defensive teams. He is putting his guys in a position to score, and it just so happens that they aren't converting.

[Gerry]

The play call was a bad one, and another example of Marrone/Hackett making poor use of the talent that they have to work with. Why not use one of your horses, Fred or CJ, on a screen pass? In situations like this, smart coaches go to their best players with plays that have the best chance of success. Belichick has been doing this for the past 12 years, one of the reasons for his success. Having a rookie QB throw a fade to a second year receiver who has not distinguished himself was a mistake and resulted in the most likely outcome. Well coached teams run high percentage plays with their best players to keep drives going, which in turn helps them to win games. Using the "I like the agressiveness" line is nothing but a copout.

[garbag3man]

The play call was a bad one, and another example of Marrone/Hackett making poor use of the talent that they have to work with. Why not use one of your horses, Fred or CJ, on a screen pass? In situations like this, smart coaches go to their best players with plays that have the best chance of success. Belichick has been doing this for the past 12 years, one of the reasons for his success. Having a rookie QB throw a fade to a second year receiver who has not distinguished himself was a mistake and resulted in the most likely outcome. Well coached teams run high percentage plays with their best players to keep drives going, which in turn helps them to win games. Using the "I like the agressiveness" line is nothing but a copout.

 

Come on it was just 3 weeks ago that we had the ball at the 1 and we gave it to Freddie four times, run run run run just like everyone is complaining that we didn't do here. You know what happened, we got stuffed 4 times, and everyone was complaining that the play calling was awful. That's just absurd.

[K-9]

The bolded part is what I disagree with. A coach has to know his players limitations and not set them up to fail. Tuel was in his first start and had already performed several large gaffes in the game. The D is stuffing them and your strength is running the football. In last night's game Super Bowl winning HC John Gruden said with a backup QB you don't want to put the game on their shoulders. Somehow I'm thinking Chuckie doesn't let Tuel Time pass in that situation. The coach can tell the QB not to audible.

 

Oh for crying out phucking loud. They practiced that play all week with success. Is Hackett supposed to know when a player is gonna choke on the field after seeing that player execute the play SUCCESSFULLY all week? Were you mad at Hackett for letting Tuel have the freedom to read the coverage and execute the play to Graham for the TD?

 

This idea that Tuel is some newborn babe in the cold, dark woods is crap. He wasn't given ANYTHING by Hackett that he hadn't practiced and prepared for since OTAs. The kid phucked up and it wasn't because of Hackett.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 5, 2013 by K-9

[Gerry]

Come on it was just 3 weeks ago that we had the ball at the 1 and we gave it to Freddie four times, run run run run just like everyone is complaining that we didn't do here. You know what happened, we got stuffed 4 times, and everyone was complaining that the play calling was awful. That's just absurd.

First of all, this was not first and goal, it was fourth and three. Secondly, I did not say that they should have ran the ball-a screen pass is not a run. The play that was called, with the players involved, had a low chance of success and the result was predictable. One of the big reasons why the Pats have owned the Bills for the past twelve years is because Belichick goes to his clutch players with low risk plays on 3rd and 4th downs to keep drives alive. The Bills need to learn to do the same.

[reddogblitz]

Using the "I like the agressiveness" line is nothing but a copout.

 

I like this. Too true.

 

Come on it was just 3 weeks ago that we had the ball at the 1 and we gave it to Freddie four times, run run run run just like everyone is complaining that we didn't do here. You know what happened, we got stuffed 4 times, and everyone was complaining that the play calling was awful. That's just absurd.

 

I'm not sure I remember this one. I do remember one in Bungles game where we ran it at least twice and did not get in. Then on 4th down we tried to throw a pass with the only 2 guys going out where one was a Tackle and the other was a FB that never plays. Another brilliant coaching decision by Coach Marrone and Hackett Jr.

 

What's the matter with taking a FG to go up by 10? It was not a shoot out. Far from it.

[bbb]

First of all, this was not first and goal, it was fourth and three. Secondly, I did not say that they should have ran the ball-a screen pass is not a run. The play that was called, with the players involved, had a low chance of success and the result was predictable. One of the big reasons why the Pats have owned the Bills for the past twelve years is because Belichick goes to his clutch players with low risk plays on 3rd and 4th downs to keep drives alive. The Bills need to learn to do the same.

 

Yup. These people are talking about the goal line play. The play that is being talked about here was plain stupid, and for exactly what you said.

[CardinalScotts]

There was nothing wrong with that particular throw. Graham simply can't track the ball and run at the same time.

 

were just going to ignore Johnson uncovered.....I heard on kc radio Smith say I passed Stevie on to Berry and Berry never picked him up- busted coverage

[3rdand12]

has anyone even considered the probablity of an interception under the goalpost, between the hash marks of a goaline play, could be returned for a pick six.

all of you are missing the more obvoius error .

Bills did no react when the play went sour . Smith should have been tackled.

 

Play call was decent. Tuel made the mistake and bad luck had alot to do with it . But no one tackled Smith.'

I could name names but i wont. Its a team game

[BigPappy]

4th & 3 from what, their 40? Fade to, none other than, T.J. Graham...? WTF was that? You have a QB who had made some dreadfull passes throwing to a receiver who has proven he can't track the deep ball well. It's a very low percentage play with the completely wrong people running it.

 

I saw another thread calling for Tuels head...how about Graham's? What is this guy good for? A speedster with no ball tracking skills...sorry, I can't find a spot on "my" roster for him, you?

 

Continuing with this rant...the Bills gash KC for 240+ on the ground, the stat line (pure #'s) has us with a pretty balanced attack, 39 passes & 38 runs, but only 28 of those runs are by your top two backs who averaged 10 ypc and 5 ypc respectively. Sorry, but a much heavier dose of ground and pound was in order, by about a swing of 20 plays or so. And this shotgun B.S. on 3rd and short has got to stop.

 

One of the things I learned as a coach, regardless of what level, you tailor your calls to your strengths. You don't force a running team to throw the ball because it's a "passing league."

 

Deep breaths...deep breaths!!

 

Good thing you stopped there. I was starting to think you were going to hyperventilate! On a serious note, I 100% agree with ya.

Some of Hackett's play calling has been horrible. Someone really needs to ask him, why the F@$K are you passing on a 4th and 3 when your RB's are GASHING the D line.

 

BigPappy

 

And I applaud the attempt. I like that Hackett is coaching these guys to be aggressive. Hackett has to be forward looking. He is serving notice to future defenses; setting up future game plans. If there is ONE thing DCs will NEVER stop doing, it's analyzing tendencies.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

SERIOUSLY! Are you kidding me. Serving Notice to future defenses! That is total BS. Screw that! How about finishing the game your in and not worry about what future defenses are going to be looking at. If you truly believe this, step away from the keyboard man cause you need to be band!

 

BigPappy

Edited November 6, 2013 by BigPappy

[K-9]

Good thing you stopped there. I was starting to think you were going to hyperventilate! On a serious note, I 100% agree with ya.

Some of Hackett's play calling has been horrible. Someone really needs to ask him, why the F@$K are you passing on a 4th and 3 when your RB's are GASHING the D line.

 

BigPappy

 

 

 

SERIOUSLY! Are you kidding me. Serving Notice to future defenses! That is total BS. Screw that! How about finishing the game your in and not worry about what future defenses are going to be looking at. If you truly believe this, step away from the keyboard man cause you need to be band!

 

BigPappy

 

I know this to be true of all OCs at most advanced levels of the game. I assume you are acquainted with the concept of tendencies and the proclivity of DCs to key on those tendencies. When teams show certain looks, it's with the expectation that defenses will react to those looks in a certain way. This is an evolving process throughout the season.

 

In microcosm, the scripting of the first 15-20 plays each game seeks to accomplish the same thing.

 

Perhaps you should step away from the keyboard and better acquaint yourself with some of the finer nuances of the game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

The kid phucked up and it wasn't because of Hackett.

you are correct. K-9 .

but you must agree it was a tough play to execute for Jeffs first real nfl game

[K-9]

The kid phucked up and it wasn't because of Hackett.

you are correct. K-9 .

but you must agree it was a tough play to execute for Jeffs first real nfl game

 

Why was it a tough play? The kid practiced it all week and was successful with it, according to Stevie Johnson.

 

It wasn't some sort of exotic coverage; straight man to man.

 

As I've said on numerous occasions, Hackett didn't put Tuel in any position to run any play he hadn't already practiced and prepared for.

 

To come full circle on the play in question in the OP (vs. the pick 6 which is also being discussed), Tuel has the green light for the go route if he sees a certain coverage. It just didn't work this time.

 

But NOBODY complained about the SAME green light for Tuel to find Goodwin on his TD play.

 

The idea that Hackett set this kid up to fail is ludicrous. Indeed, the EXACT OPPOSITE is true: he put that kid in position to succeed. Tuel wasn't up to it this day. It happens.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

The kid phucked up and it wasn't because of Hackett.

you are correct. K-9 .

but you must agree it was a tough play to execute for Jeffs first real nfl game

 

It should've been a easy throw the way things worked out. It could've ended up much harder had the defense been different but graham had a step and there wasn't a safety over the top. It should've been as basic a pitch and catch as you can get and both guys decided to make it look hard.

Edited November 6, 2013 by NoSaint

[BigPappy]

I know this to be true of all OCs at most advanced levels of the game. I assume you are acquainted with the concept of tendencies and the proclivity of DCs to key on those tendencies. When teams show certain looks, it's with the expectation that defenses will react to those looks in a certain way. This is an evolving process throughout the season.

 

In microcosm, the scripting of the first 15-20 plays each game seeks to accomplish the same thing.

 

Perhaps you should step away from the keyboard and better acquaint yourself with some of the finer nuances of the game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I am very acquainted with the game of Football and the idea of offensive and Defensive tendencies. While I did not play professionally, I did play on several levels. While I agree with the fundamental Idea of tendencies, I TOTALLY disagree with the thought process of calling a specific play at the end of a game that you are technically still trying to win to befuddle future defenses. When the game is tight, you go for the high percentage plays. Plays that you know are working in the game and will gain you yards and get you the first downs.

 

BigPappy

[K-9]

I am very acquainted with the game of Football and the idea of offensive and Defensive tendencies. While I did not play professionally, I did play on several levels. While I agree with the fundamental Idea of tendencies, I TOTALLY disagree with the thought process of calling a specific play at the end of a game that you are technically still trying to win to befuddle future defenses. When the game is tight, you go for the high percentage plays. Plays that you know are working in the game and will gain you yards and get you the first downs.

 

BigPappy

 

That play was Tuel's call. Just as the TD to Goodwin was Tuel's call. Our QBs have the green light when they see certain coverages. And while there isn't a lower percentage pass play in the books, the kid took a shot and missed. I don't fault him for that nor do I fault Hackett for giving his QBs the leeway to make a play if they see one to be made. That doesn't mean I don't prefer a higher percentage play, it just means I respect why the kid tried to make something happen down 10 late in the game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

It should've been a easy throw the way things worked out. It could've ended up much harder had the defense been different but graham had a step and there wasn't a safety over the top. It should've been as basic a pitch and catch as you can get and both guys decided to make it look hard.

I must agree that i became harder than it should have been. But we have covered all that i guess by now.

Tuel felt the pressure and then did a Mr roboto. Right or wrong he threw to a spot. He might have had his eyes closed and wishing for all i know because he tossed the play he called . If he was 6 5 he would have seen SJ

 

Why was it a tough play? The kid practiced it all week and was successful with it, according to Stevie Johnson.

 

It wasn't some sort of exotic coverage; straight man to man.

 

As I've said on numerous occasions, Hackett didn't put Tuel in any position to run any play he hadn't already practiced and prepared for.

 

To come full circle on the play in question in the OP (vs. the pick 6 which is also being discussed), Tuel has the green light for the go route if he sees a certain coverage. It just didn't work this time.

 

But NOBODY complained about the SAME green light for Tuel to find Goodwin on his TD play.

 

The idea that Hackett set this kid up to fail is ludicrous. Indeed, the EXACT OPPOSITE is true: he put that kid in position to succeed. Tuel wasn't up to it this day. It happens.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Tuel is playing the Chiefs defense.

Best in league.

In his biggest play in his life possibly/probably.

Thats why its a tough play.

He probably closed his eyes and threw it. I would have at that point in my life

 

edit Threw it and closed my eyes.

Close my eyes and throw is just stupid

Edited November 6, 2013 by 3rdand12

[bbb]

4th & 3 from what, their 40? Fade to, none other than, T.J. Graham...? WTF was that? You have a QB who had made some dreadfull passes throwing to a receiver who has proven he can't track the deep ball well. It's a very low percentage play with the completely wrong people running it.

 

I saw another thread calling for Tuels head...how about Graham's? What is this guy good for? A speedster with no ball tracking skills...sorry, I can't find a spot on "my" roster for him, you?

 

Continuing with this rant...the Bills gash KC for 240+ on the ground, the stat line (pure #'s) has us with a pretty balanced attack, 39 passes & 38 runs, but only 28 of those runs are by your top two backs who averaged 10 ypc and 5 ypc respectively. Sorry, but a much heavier dose of ground and pound was in order, by about a swing of 20 plays or so. And this shotgun B.S. on 3rd and short has got to stop.

 

One of the things I learned as a coach, regardless of what level, you tailor your calls to your strengths. You don't force a running team to throw the ball because it's a "passing league."

 

Deep breaths...deep breaths!!

 

Can somebody tell me when this was? I watched my whole DVR, but fast forwarded between plays, etc. and somehow I missed this one...........At the game, I was calling it the worst call ever, but I want to go back and watch it. I'm sure Dierdorf thought it was a good call anyway.