BADOLBILZ Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Hmmm....we have some veterans but this is a very young team. At the start of the season we had..... ....9 starters who had 2 or less years of experience.... Williams, Alonso, Dareus, Gilmore, Bradham, Woods, Graham, Glenn, Manuel ....with a further 5+ key backups with 2 or less years of exp.... Summers, Goodwin, Robey/Rogers, Searcy, Tuel/Lewis ....and another 5 starters who had 4 or less years of exp.... Legursky/Brown, Wood, Urbik, Spiller, Carrington ....with a further 3+ key backups who had 4 or less years of exp.... Legursky/Brown, Moates, Hughes As previously pointed out, we have the 3rd youngest team in the league......with 14 of 22 starters having 4 or less years experience coming into the season......plus another 8+ key backups. The Bills rank as one of the youngest teams in terms of the average age of every player on their entire roster but that average is made low because of depth.....not because of their 28 year old starting offensive lineman. Depth is a major problem for the team. Buoying your argument by calling Nigel Bradham and TJ Graham starters is a bit of a reach. I pointed out the key contributors.....you brought up Justin Rogers and Colin Wood. Reality: their roster is basically the same age as those of winning teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Patriots and Chiefs.....and those teams didn't start the season with only 2 rookie QB's on their roster. Half of the entire age difference between the Patriots and Bills rosters is the difference between the ages of Tom Brady and EJ Manuel. One player. That is how close these numbers are. The point is that youth is not an excuse for this team. Too many excuses for bad decisions are made based on the mistaken belief that the Bills are young....other teams are not....and therefore they must be graded on some kind of curve. Does anyone remember 5 years ago when the Bills started the youngest offensive line to open the season for an NFL team since the merger? Or the WR corps in Chan's first year that had no career starts coming into the season? Who is still buying the "young team" excuse? Edited October 15, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The Bills rank as one of the youngest teams in terms of the average age of every player on their entire roster but that average is made low because of depth.....not because of their 28 year old starting offensive lineman. Depth is a major problem for the team. Buoying your argument by calling Nigel Bradham and TJ Graham starters is a bit of a reach. I pointed out the key contributors.....you brought up Justin Rogers and Colin Wood. Reality: their roster is basically the same age as those of winning teams like the Seahawks, Packers, Patriots and Chiefs.....and those teams didn't start the season with only 2 rookie QB's on their roster. Half of the entire age difference between the Patriots and Bills rosters is the difference between the ages of Tom Brady and EJ Manuel. One player. That is how close these numbers are. The point is that youth is not an excuse for this team. Too many excuses for bad decisions are made based on the mistaken belief that the Bills are young....other teams are not....and therefore they must be graded on some kind of curve. Does anyone remember 5 years ago when the Bills started the youngest offensive line to open the season for an NFL team since the merger? Or the WR corps in Chan's first year that had no career starts coming into the season? Who is still buying the "young team" excuse? I prefer this one: "Since the Bills are in a total rebuild, they had to <blank>." Where blank can be occupied by whatever move or non-move one may or may not imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Why are we talking about Gilmore? Defending Gilmore? Did anyone notice the original poster said that Kiko Alonso... 22 tackle Kiko didnt play well? We are defending a 2nd year player, who is good but not a top 10 draft pick worthy cornerback, when your ROOKIE middle linebacking stud who I might add won defensive rookie of the month was classed together with a hot and cold dareus and a hobbled k williams. I love reading peoples thoughts but I feel like if we have to make excuses for Gilmore why not come to Alonsos aid a bit. Sorry for the rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The biggest problem he had last year was with some truly awful technique that occasionally got him in trouble and that never seemed to get corrected throughout the year. I pin a lot of that on Catavalos, who never seemed to do a single thing for any of the Bills DB's in all his time here. Considering the significant improvement we've seen in the gmaes of both McKelvin and AWilliams, I have high hopes that Gilmore is going to take the same step forward when he actually returns for real. Love this notion Thank you for highlighting Hogan, there was a reason he was cut from 3 different teams. Please stop with the Easley chants, he's no better than Hogan. Thank you. I'm still waiting for clarification as to why people think Easley is the answer. 2 regimes who think Easley doesn't deserve the field and arm chair coaches know better. We need to be looking for line help and wr help before we pay 6 qbs. I politely ask anyone to explain to me why they think Easley makes the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I think the exact opposite is at play sometimes - people can't bear the thought of whiffing on another top 10 pick so they will not/cannot admit he has looked downright awful out there at times. I could care less where he was picked. Based on draft position alone we should have the best secondary around in McKelvin and Gilmore, but we don't. I can get with you on this but McKelvin. In my opinion, is our best corner now and I credit that greatly to Donnie Henderson. Gilmore is not my favorite... I would probably call him my whipping boy but a corner corp of Gilmore McKelvin Brooks and Robey. I could sign up for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Why are we talking about Gilmore? Defending Gilmore? Did anyone notice the original poster said that Kiko Alonso... 22 tackle Kiko didnt play well? We are defending a 2nd year player, who is good but not a top 10 draft pick worthy cornerback, when your ROOKIE middle linebacking stud who I might add won defensive rookie of the month was classed together with a hot and cold dareus and a hobbled k williams. I love reading peoples thoughts but I feel like if we have to make excuses for Gilmore why not come to Alonsos aid a bit. Sorry for the rant Alonso had 9 tackles and 13 assists, actually. More importantly, the number of tackles isn't the greatest measure by a long shot. Unless it's a TD, *someone* makes a tackle on every play. The more plays the opposing offense runs, the more tackles a defense makes. It's like the NBA -- even the worst teams average 85 points, and *someone* has to be the leading scorer. Just because you average 19-20 points for a terrible team doesn't make you a good offensive player. Alonso is a good player, but he did not have a good first half against Cincy. He was bad, in fact. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Alonso had 9 tackles and 13 assists, actually. More importantly, the number of tackles isn't the greatest measure by a long shot. Unless it's a TD, *someone* makes a tackle on every play. The more plays the opposing offense runs, the more tackles a defense makes. It's like the NBA -- even the worst teams average 85 points, and *someone* has to be the leading scorer. Just because you average 19-20 points for a terrible team doesn't make you a good offensive player. Alonso is a good player, but he did not have a good first half against Cincy. He was bad, in fact. It happens. Jeez, the Bills now have a rookie LBer that was named Septembers rookie of the month and has a good shot at defensive rookie of the year. The steal of the 2013 draft! The kid is LEADING the NFL in tackles with 66 after only 6 games Its just to darn bad the rest of the Bills defense doesn't play up to the level of Kiko! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Jeez, the Bills now have a rookie LBer that was named Septembers rookie of the month and has a good shot at defensive rookie of the year. The steal of the 2013 draft! The kid is LEADING the NFL in tackles with 66 after only 6 games Its just to darn bad the rest of the Bills defense doesn't play up to the level of Kiko! None of that changes the fact he played a crappy first half against the Bengals. No biggie. Like ANY young player at ANY position, it's always a work in progress. Frankly, I'm surprised he's been as good as he has as consistently as he has given the position he plays and the responsibilities it entails. But he's gonna have some clunkers along the way. And he did on Sunday. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I can honestly tell you as a former high school and college basketball player, and current semi pro football defensive end. 22 tackles is nowhere near as easy as it is to score 19-20. I don't care how it goes to get your hat in on 22 stops is quite a feat. Alonso is a wrecking ball and it only magnifies that when Dareus and Williams didn't have a good day. If your DT play is bad the o line can constantly get to the second level... Kiko... who teams know about. Game plan for. And almost are starting to fear. Its easy to magnify a middle linebacker playing poorly when he is surrounded by players who rent getting the job done. I will rewatch the first half but like another poster said if the D played like he did... we would jave fireworks on the field. You are right, tackles are not the most important measure. But let me ask you, how many of those runs up the gut were long gainers. Inversely how many were bottled up by the d line. My point is Kiko had to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I can honestly tell you as a former high school and college basketball player, and current semi pro football defensive end. 22 tackles is nowhere near as easy as it is to score 19-20. I don't care how it goes to get your hat in on 22 stops is quite a feat. Alonso is a wrecking ball and it only magnifies that when Dareus and Williams didn't have a good day. If your DT play is bad the o line can constantly get to the second level... Kiko... who teams know about. Game plan for. And almost are starting to fear. Its easy to magnify a middle linebacker playing poorly when he is surrounded by players who rent getting the job done. I will rewatch the first half but like another poster said if the D played like he did... we would jave fireworks on the field. You are right, tackles are not the most important measure. But let me ask you, how many of those runs up the gut were long gainers. Inversely how many were bottled up by the d line. My point is Kiko had to be there. Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good. And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good. And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list. Thurman Thomas was a pretty good second rounder. And the problem with bargain draft picks is the Bills have to let them walk on their second contract. It's what you do in a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Nobody is saying that Kiko isn't a good player. In fact, I think that if the kid stays healthy he is on the way to being one of the best linebackers in the entire league. That said rookies make mistakes, but again....it's all good. And btw, as he ages, learns, and perhaps even gains a pound or 2, he is also on his way to being one of the best bargain draft picks this franchise has ever made. I know we are the Bills but there would be some great names on that list. Lol agreed. I think more of my rant was because everyone seems to keep giving Gilmore a pass. No hard feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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