A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[C.Biscuit97]

Couple of points off your points:

 

1) Marrone was challenging Cameron being out of bounds. I was screaming about it as well. The official's hat was off so I have no idea why this wasn't called.

 

2) Aaron Williams got moved from corner because he wasn't a good cb. He has performed very well at S. The only reason he's at cb is the Bills are so banged up. IMO, hard to fault a guy playing out of position.

 

3) Given the amount of injuries and young, isn't the main reason we are in these games coaching? So how can you be mad at Marrone? I get frustrated with the conservative playcalling at times too, but the Bills were driving to take the lead when Manuel got hurt. So things were working. The Bills have be at the 2 minute warning with a chance to win or tie every game this year. IMO, Marrone is doing a good job.

[Gordio]

What was the point of cutting T Jack when they did? I did not understand it when they cut him & still don't understand it now. I think he was only making $1.7 mill so it was not crazy money. Just another baffling move in a list of baffling moves over the last 13 years. I am not saying T Jack is anything great but he is certainly more capable then Tuel. Obviously they did not know Kolb was going down but why not at least bring him into camp & then cut him in the preseason? Absolutely short sighted & mind boggling & cost them a game last night. If the Bills had a capable backup they win that game last night. You better go discount those Bengals Tickets even more Brandon, youpiece of sh*t.

[Nervous Guy]

Couple of points off your points:

 

1) Marrone was challenging Cameron being out of bounds. I was screaming about it as well. The official's hat was off so I have no idea why this wasn't called.

 

Because he didn't touch the ball first?

[C.Biscuit97]

What was the point of cutting T Jack when they did? I did not understand it when they cut him & still don't understand it now. I think he was only making $1.7 mill so it was not crazy money. Just another baffling move in a list of baffling moves over the last 13 years. I am not saying T Jack is anything great but he is certainly more capable then Tuel. Obviously they did not know Kolb was going down but why not at least bring him into camp & then cut him in the preseason? Absolutely short sighted & mind boggling & cost them a game last night. If the Bills had a capable backup they win that game last night. You better go discount those Bengals Tickets even more Brandon, youpiece of sh*t.

 

I thought Kolb was terrible but there were rumors Jackson was having trouble picking up the offense. I think they figured they wanted EJ and a vet to compete for the job but too many guys limits reps. Obviously, it looks bad now.

 

Because he didn't touch the ball first?

 

Did anyone touch it? Because Searcy was out of bounds when he touched it. And given that it was 3rd down and a pnealty was called, it could have been a big play to challenge. Cameron was also interfering with Searcy.

[Gordio]

 

 

I thought Kolb was terrible but there were rumors Jackson was having trouble picking up the offense. I think they figured they wanted EJ and a vet to compete for the job but too many guys limits reps. Obviously, it looks bad now.

 

I know there must of been something else to it because they did not even give him a look & neither did Chan's staff. But to put all your eggs in a guy like Kolb, who has been injury proned & is not even good is foolish. Tuel should not be on an active roster, he is a PS player at best right now.

 

 

 

Did anyone touch it? Because Searcy was out of bounds when he touched it. And given that it was 3rd down and a pnealty was called, it could have been a big play to challenge. Cameron was also interfering with Searcy.

[Mike B. in VA]

Tuel certainly wasn't ready and he may just not be talented enough to ever be. The ST momentum swings were killer, and I particularly loathed seeing McGahee succeed against us. There was some stellar play, ESP from the defense, but not 4 quarters of it. Our coaches have as much to learn as our players.

 

McGahee had a few successful plays, but 2.8 YPC (I believe it was) I can certainly live with. He performed like a veteran who knows he's lost his speed, but you can't hang this game on the run D. The secondary - well, the Aaron Williams part of it - was atrocious.

 

I do feel that Searcy was victimized by a BS call in the end zone. He was being grabbed the whole time then got called for grabbing back on a ball thrown out of the back of the end zone. That gave Cleveland another chance and they took advantage.

 

Yeah, I wish they'd have called PI, because it would have been overturned on review, since Cameron stepped out. I also can't believe they didn't call the block in the back at the end of the punt return TD, since it so blatantly obvious.

 

What was up with Jackson's two taunting penalties, for that matter? Neither one really killed them, but...

 

Regardless, this game was winnable, and probably would have been if EJ didn't get hurt. I don't understand the doomsayers, though - this is exactly the kind of game a team this young and this hurt loses. They still look better from a long-term perspective than either of the last two regimes' teams did.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Yeah, it looks bad now but Jackson has been with the Seattle OC since Minnesota. So it's an offense he is very familiar with and thus, he can just play and not think. Doesn't mean he'd be the same player he.

 

Still, I never liked Kolb. He was Matt Flynn. In a perfect world, Fitz would be the backup/ mentor. I miss his stupid beard.

[Mike B. in VA]

Because he didn't touch the ball first?

 

Because they called illegal contact, so I guess it happened before the ball was thrown (and before he went out of bounds). I'd love to see the all-22 on that.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

13) Hughes, Kiko and Alonzo all had big games. You wouldn't know it from the score, but it's true.

 

That made me laugh... thanks for your unintentional line

[Livinginthepast]

Oh please. The secondary is a bunch of arena league players and you're looking for picks. I get the point on Tuel but in-game QB switch outs rarely go well on the road with raw rookies. Not sure I can ever remember one. Rookie comes in on the road... nope, can't think of one. That will be fixed, along with LG, TE, etc in FA and the draft. They are building a team. AND IN spite of all the problems, Without the EJ injury the pick 6 and the punt return TD, they win the game. I like what i saw . This is not a playoff team yet. They blew it all up and are starting over. Let's all start dealing with reality please.

 

think that Brandon Wheeden is basically a step above an arena league QB. Sure he made 2 great throws last night, but seriously he just got beat out by a rookie for the job this year. I don't think it is unrealistic to expect an INT with a rusty QB who was getting rushed as well as the Bills D line was doing last night. There were a couple of close plays where the DBs jumped a route or the pass was poorly thrown where they had a pick right in their hands and couldn't close the deal. That kind of play would have shattered Wheeden enough that he would have lost confidence. Instead we got the pathetic coverage of that drive after the Bills went up 24-17 which swung the momentum permanently in the Brown's favor.

[C.Biscuit97]

think that Brandon Wheeden is basically a step above an arena league QB. Sure he made 2 great throws last night, but seriously he just got beat out by a rookie for the job this year. I don't think it is unrealistic to expect an INT with a rusty QB who was getting rushed as well as the Bills D line was doing last night. There were a couple of close plays where the DBs jumped a route or the pass was poorly thrown where they had a pick right in their hands and couldn't close the deal. That kind of play would have shattered Wheeden enough that he would have lost confidence. Instead we got the pathetic coverage of that drive after the Bills went up 24-17 which swung the momentum permanently in the Brown's favor.

 

Huh? Weeden was a 1st round pick a year ago. He got hurt and Hoyer, like a 5th year guy stepped in. Also, Josh Gordon, who is a star, missed the first 2 games. Since he has come back, it completely changes their offense.

[K-9]

think that Brandon Wheeden is basically a step above an arena league QB. Sure he made 2 great throws last night, but seriously he just got beat out by a rookie for the job this year. I don't think it is unrealistic to expect an INT with a rusty QB who was getting rushed as well as the Bills D line was doing last night. There were a couple of close plays where the DBs jumped a route or the pass was poorly thrown where they had a pick right in their hands and couldn't close the deal. That kind of play would have shattered Wheeden enough that he would have lost confidence. Instead we got the pathetic coverage of that drive after the Bills went up 24-17 which swung the momentum permanently in the Brown's favor.

 

Yes, Weeden got beaten out by a rookie QB who has spent the last four years in the NFL backing up Tom Brady.

 

Except he didn't get beaten out by anyone for his job; he lost it when he injured his thumb.

 

Nobody is saying Weeden is the second coming, but he made some nice throws last night. A few if which were in clutch situations.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Fan in San Diego]

On your first point, EJ has to learn to slide and avoid the big contact. I feel like I've seen him hit awkwardly 3-4 times already when he could avoid it. If he doesn't learn this soon, he's going to end up like Hoyers hit, which was awful. I hope EJ just comes out of that with a sprain and nothing more. He's turning into way too important a player to lose.

 

When Maycock called Aaron Williams a key defender, I had to laugh. Talk about shortsighted. I'm glad Williams made plays last week but how about the rest of his career thus far? Nice to see Mckelvin back and every time Robey is out there, he seems to make a play.

 

I agree 100%, EJ needs to learn how to dive and slide to avoid unnecessary hits.

[boyst]

Everyone here brings up points. I'm not wastingmjore time with last nights games. I will just say that players win ball games.

 

Searcy gave up bad PI. If Byrd was here Williams might have had that penalty, too.

Gilmore playing would have been a game changer. Williams would be at SS, Byrd at FS.

EJ all game would have been entirely different.

Hoyer, as well, against our full D would have been big.

CarRingtone would have given Joe Thomas fits. Thomas is good but he doesn't move as quick as Carrington. He would have rounded that edge.

SJ13 would have had veteran leadership and been a prod in an emotional game on a sensitive Browns D.

Goodwin would have done wonders in the wide open over the middle routes.

 

 

 

Not getting enough love for Graham. I have high hopes.

Dareus is looking like a Pro Bowl player. Has all year. He is a huge factor for Alonso. Funny how MLB's make the plays when they have all day and all the room in the world.

 

And there were a ton of no calls on blocks in the back, holding and PI. A facemask or two as well. It was both ways but mostly in favor of the browns.

 

This game simply exposed how thin our roster is. One thing you did not mention is how disheartened Kyle Williams looked at the end of the game. You do have to wonder if like us he is tired of the very few bright spots the team has had over his career.

 

Finally, the season could get very long and difficult with a loss next week. Marrone's coaching honeymoon just ended .

had to come back on this quote. It bugged me. KW was pissed because he got held, had his head slapped sideways a bunch and was just mauled with BS. Did anyone else find it odd Bills DL kept losing their helmets??? Brown DL was in their face, literally, all night.

[Matt in KC]

Bill = Black; Matt = Blue; Bills = Black and blue

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1) Obviously, it was a shame that EJ went down. What sucks too is that he had time to run out of bounds. He is young and unpolished, but I sense that he is going to be very good.

I don't mind if the guy takes an occasional hit, but he just looks like he hasn't adjusted to the speed on NFL defenders, which is very dangerous. Given what we saw of Tuel, he needs to be much more aware and careful.

 

3) Aaron Williams played like the Aaron Williams I remember. He was beaten like a drum, turned around, and smoked all night. At one point an announcer called him "our best corner." Just a pitiful performance.

I thought Aaron played alright given he was asked to change positions. He never looked lost or far out of position. I'm thrilled the kid is on our team and am excited to see him continue to grow.

 

4) Mario Williams played as well as he did in the 4.5 sack game. Almost constant pressure and he forced several plays.

Mario definitely seems to be a "blood in the water" kind of player who almost looks bored sometimes (not much in this game) until we start really attacking and running stunts and getting pressure. After that he looks like he's going twice as fast the next play. Mario owes both his sacks to Kyle Williams, and the Browns' inability to stay on him (instead of sending 2 after Kyle).

 

5) Colin Brown threw a nice block on a 3rd and 6 run in the 1st quarter. Then, he promptly gave up 2 brutal sacks. What a mess.

Colin is about what I'd expect from an NFL backup. I hope someone gets in his ear about staying low and playing with leverage. I think he's big and quick enough for a guard. He just stands up too tall or lunges enough that his protection breaks down faster than for the other linemen.

 

6) Robert Woods plays like a polished professional. It is SO easy to forget that he is a 21 year old kid!!! Nothing but high hopes for this player.

I agree, RW is awesome. I love his tenacity and focus. He is really locked in every play, playing just as hard if he's blocking on the other side of the field as for a pass that might come to him. What an excellent 2nd round addition!

 

7) You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot,

For a taste of your elegant pride.

May be going to hell in a bucket, babe,

But at least I'm enjoying the ride.

At least I'm enjoying the ride.

At least I'm enjoying the ride.!

 

I love you Dead lyrics in these weekly posts. It reminds me to put my Bills criticism in perspective and that there's a lot more to life.

 

9) I'm saying that there must be better punters on the street looking for work. The best part of Powell's game was his ability to go after returners who were of course streaking down the field.

I think we had it so good with Moorman for so long we're all a bit warped. I think Powell has been absolutely atrocious, a real liability. And yet, when I look at his stats he's a mid-range punter on pretty much every stat.

 

What am I missing? Is Easley's excellent coverage making him look better, and if Easley doesn't get there we're in trouble? That's what it looked like last night. I would love love love for us to have another Easley as a gunner coming from the left.

 

10) Dareus played very well today. I could see the effort he was putting into his game. The kid hurried up to scrimmage, and appears to be in 10 times better shape than I have seen him in since he has been on the Bills.

Dareus looks like he's arriving mentally and physically. He's moving so much better than last year and is really starting to look energized.

 

12) Tuel? Someone forgot to tell me that he has no arm. In terms of arm strength, he made Fitz look like Drew Bledsoe.

He looked horrible. So, do we add a QB today I think if we don't that's an indication the Bills are pretty sure EJ can return for the Bengals.

 

13) Hughes, Kiko and Alonzo all had big games. You wouldn't know it from the score, but it's true.

I think you mean Lawson. I can't believe LB was our weakest unit last year the way these guys are playing. Talk about an overhaul! Lawson has been playing great and is a huge asset, as is Kiko, another draft choice who does not at all look like a lost rookie. We really should keep trying to draft these guys that are already veterans!

 

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BILLS!!!!!

 

 

Kyle Williams - Kyle is a beast. But here's what I think most teams have figured out: he studies film and guesses the snap count. This makes him a menace when he's right with his burst and strength, but can be conned into jumping offsides when they change it up.

[Orton's Arm]

The Bills should have won this game going away. The special teams gaffes swung the momentum. Not just the 2 terrible punt covers, but 2 mediocre punts by Powell in the 2nd half. We lost the field position game and once EJ was knocked out there was zero chance that Tuel would be able to string some passes together. Speaking of Tuel, He was really awful. He didnt even look like he should be on the practice squad let alone a backup. What could they possibly have seen in him in the preseason that would have made them think they could rely on him in an emergency like last night? Finally, I am very disappointed in the defense. They played OK but when they really needed a pick or a stop (the 3rd and 18 play!!!) they blew it. They couldnt intercept Brandon Wheeden? Not even once? Not acceptable! This and the Jets game were opportunities lost that will bite them in the butt come playoff time when they are struggling for a WC.

 

I agree that Tuel played poorly. But it's not like his teammates did him any favors. The running game got shut down when he was under center. The pass protectors didn't pass protect. WRs didn't get open. They did drop passes, including a beautifully thrown long ball. Tuel's offensive coordinator didn't exactly bring back memories of Bill Walsh.

 

Tuel made his share of mistakes, especially on the INT. It was also obvious that he hadn't been given a single practice snap with the #1s, and hadn't developed any chemistry with them. But I for one am not going to write him off based on two quarters of disappointing play. Not when everything was set up to make him look as bad as possible.

[BillsWatch]

1) Obviously, it was a shame that EJ went down. What sucks too is that he had time to run out of bounds. He is young and unpolished, but I sense that he is going to be very good.

He seemed determined to make a difference when throwing not to Mr Automatic Interference was not target.

It did not appear his knee was injured as much by hit as by fall where he went down awkward.

Was that the same knee he injured in camp?

 

2) Sure, the punt return before the deuce at the half was a killer, but the stupid play calling led to it. Two useless runs out of the hurry-up, and an incomplete pass under pressure. Then Marrone ran out the clock.

Runs are useless except when they work. Saw RBs appear to go to pile on several occasions rather than go outside which surprised me.

 

3) Aaron Williams played like the Aaron Williams I remember. He was beaten like a drum, turned around, and smoked all night. At one point an announcer called him "our best corner." Just a pitiful performance.

Aaron Williams as CB is hot or cold depending on partly who he is covering and who is over the top.

Note: Announcers seem to be be general clueless recently and only look at recent games.

 

4) Mario Williams played as well as he did in the 4.5 sack game. Almost constant pressure and he forced several plays.

Agreed

 

5) Colin Brown threw a nice block on a 3rd and 6 run in the 1st quarter. Then, he promptly gave up 2 brutal sacks. What a mess.

I wonder if we would have got more out of him with OL coach who was canned w/o interview?

 

6) Robert Woods plays like a polished professional. It is SO easy to forget that he is a 21 year old kid!!! Nothing but high hopes for this player.

Agreed

 

7) You imagine me sipping champagne from your boot,

Less said the better

 

8) Because Marrone, (who is getting on my nerves more and more) just wouldn't stop with the hurry-up, some of the defenders appeared to be a little winded at the end of the game. This might explain some of the key gains by an old, hobbled Magahee.

Not sure if was Marrone's fault or DC's who seemed to have scheme which was too loose.

 

9) I'm saying that there must be better punters on the street looking for work. The best part of Powell's game was his ability to go after returners who were of course streaking down the field.

Yes was wondering if Powell WANTS to play special teams or was auditioning for DB. He is not a good punter in my opinion which fits with not so good ST coach.

 

10) Dareus played very well today. I could see the effort he was putting into his game. The kid hurried up to scrimmage, and appears to be in 10 times better shape than I have seen him in since he has been on the Bills.

Dareus was great

 

11) Note to Searcy....catch that ball kid. You had a pick six.

So used to doing tips and letting someone else catch it. Some players are more comfortable in assist role.

 

12) Tuel? Someone forgot to tell me that he has no arm. In terms of arm strength, he made Fitz look like Drew Bledsoe.

Arm strength seemed okay. He was never settled and too nervous so he was not throwing w/power.

 

13) Hughes, Kiko and Alonzo all had big games. You wouldn't know it from the score, but it's true.

Have we cloned Kiko? I think you meant Lawson.

 

14) A challenge flag because you saw motion. Is this how it works Marrone? I have a better idea...."Hurry up" and learn the rules of professional football.

He needs a better assistant, someone seasoned not someone who is 'upcoming'

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Always

[Livinginthepast]

Huh? Weeden was a 1st round pick a year ago. He got hurt and Hoyer, like a 5th year guy stepped in. Also, Josh Gordon, who is a star, missed the first 2 games. Since he has come back, it completely changes their offense.

 

Being a first round pick doesnt guarantee quality, just ask Brady Quinn and Jamarcus Russell, Hell ask JP Losman. Wheeden was bizarrely old to be a rookie QB in the NFL because he played baseball and went back to college. I dont think he has much more room to develop. What you see is what you get. His completion % was mediocre last year. I dont think it was too much to ask for the Bills D to smell blood in the water and shake him up. Instead they allowed to get comfortable and make those throws.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Bill = Black; Matt = Blue; Bills = Black and blue

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5) Colin Brown threw a nice block on a 3rd and 6 run in the 1st quarter. Then, he promptly gave up 2 brutal sacks. What a mess.

Colin is about what I'd expect from an NFL backup. I hope someone gets in his ear about staying low and playing with leverage. I think he's big and quick enough for a guard. He just stands up too tall or lunges enough that his protection breaks down faster than for the other linemen.

 

9) I'm saying that there must be better punters on the street looking for work. The best part of Powell's game was his ability to go after returners who were of course streaking down the field.

I think we had it so good with Moorman for so long we're all a bit warped. I think Powell has been absolutely atrocious, a real liability. And yet, when I look at his stats he's a mid-range punter on pretty much every stat.

 

What am I missing? Is Easley's excellent coverage making him look better, and if Easley doesn't get there we're in trouble? That's what it looked like last night. I would love love love for us to have another Easley as a gunner coming from the left.

 

Great post(s). Two things to add:

 

5) I have little doubt that Legursky will be given a chance at LG, possibly even for the Cincy game.

 

9) Powell sure has been a whipping boy on here, and perhaps it's because Moorman was such a good dude. He has mishit a few balls in semi-clutch situations. But to say he has been a disaster is stretching the truth. I remember the last few years of Moorman's tenure, when he frequently mishit "clutch" balls (and immediately spun and gestured w/ head down in disgust). Which is why he is no longer here/in the league. Powell's leg is 2x as strong. But I agree with your point that Easley has made some incredible tackles that have kept Powell's net average up there.

 

On the 1st long punt return, he made a hell of a play to save a sure TD, which in the end saved us 4 points. The second one that did go for a TD was a bit of a liner, but nicely placed only a few yards from the sideline. There is no excuse for letting the return man cross the width of the field when he was hemmed in like that. The coverage team did not maintain their spacing/lanes, started getting walled off, and it was off to the races. Powell should bear as much blame for the loss as maybe Fred Jackson, Garrison Sanborn or Randy Ribbeck. Which is to say, none at all.

 

EDIT: I see they just cut Powell, so I guess you dudes were right on the money!

Edited October 4, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[ColdBlueNorth]

EJ has to learn to just take what the defense gives him when he runs and either slide if he is inbounds, or step out of bounds if he is at the sideline... the 2 extra yards is not worth the potential career ending hits on the knee, or the time out rehabbing injuries.

 

Don't know if I am ready to say that McGahee had a big game against our run D... our offense and special teams gave the browns excellent field position and it took him something like 6 attempts (courtesy of illegal contact called on our defense) to gain a whole 5 yards or so and barely break the goal line on their 3rd and 2.

 

I am not too high or low on Williams - the unnecessary roughness penalty called on him that extended a Browns drive was a joke as he leaped at the receiver when the ball was still in the air and was trying to force a drop (are they telling defensive backs to wait for a clean catch and then hit the receiver?). And he was in single coverage on some perfectly thrown balls and drew the assignment of going up against a pretty good receiver in Josh Gordon that has toasted some decent starting DBs this year. And yes, Gordon often got a step on him creating that separation and Williams lacks some of the ability to turn and stay with a receiver without giving up ground. On that endzone catch I would have liked to have seen him swat the ball down, not tip it up - but the kid laid out to try to stop a play and he is filling in and trying to step up for a rather decimated secondary so why kick him now? At safety, being able to anticipate, play off the line a bit, and take good angles on receivers, use his closing speed and hitting - he should flourish.

 

I love the way our d-line played early, but I did feel that they let up in the second half and gave Weeden too much time to setup and get comfortable. The TD toss to Gordan seemed to have the cautionary effect of dropping more support to the secondary and less blitzes were being dialed up - particualarly up the middle where they would have been effective at stopping the run and preventing Weeden from stepping into his throws (that is not the nature of this defense and they need to play to their nature regardless of the few miscues). Was it unfair that our offense was running the hurry-up and going 3-out in record time, yes; That being said, the solution for our D was to dictate 3 and outs to the Browns. It is just a hard fact that for this team to win the offense is going to need the defense to do the heavy lifting for them. Our defense is executing far better than our offense at this stage of the game and they are just going to have to suck it up till the offense finds their groove.

 

The good news is that the defense should get quite a shot in the arm when they get Gilmore back and Williams can once again man the safety position. Gilmore is the one DB you can likely trust in cover 0 bump and run, while Williams can lean his support towards stopping the other teams number 2 or TE.

 

The good news on offense is as long as EJ is not out for too long the future looks pretty good, particularly with a long week off for Jackson and Spiller to get closer to 100%. We should probably get Marquise Goodwin back as well and he is a serious special teams threat and is that speedster that we have in Graham, but with much better hands. I think Goodwin had a serious shot at getting that starting role before his injury.

 

Let's not get too up or down this year folks. It's hard, but take the longer view on the talented youth that has been brought in and how they are going to shape the Bills of the future. I did not expect Superbowl this year, nor even playoffs - just a competetive team that shows signs of improvement - most of the games we have lost with our decimated roster have been pretty close. If this last draft is any indication - next year should be the year we take that big step in the right direction.