Tiberius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think someone needs to explain to you how insurance works. Everyone has asked for a solution that is better and here's mine. Never, ever, ever tie health insurance to your job. You get it just like life insurance. The younger you get it the cheaper it is and that premium can never change. You get health insurance when you're young (hell your parents can sign you up when your a toddler) for a very low price because of your age and health and that low premium never changes as long as you continue to may your premium payments. Let me ask you a question. Uh oh, there I go again. Why doesn't the government force people to have life insurance? I think it's safe to say that just as many, if not more, families are ruined due to a premature death, terminal, chronic or critical illness of one of the main bread winners. Why isn't THAT insurance mandatory? Fine, I'd love to scrap the whole employer insurance system and go with a goverment run system, but that is politically impossible. Your question about life insurance is silly. Why are people ruined by a death in the family? Because the family is left with f'n medical bills to pay off, I mean DUH! Sorry if DUH is too immature for you, but OMG, its th--no, it's--the internet Now there's a great argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Heckuva job, Obama! Americans jeer the president’s performance http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/20/obama-approval-rating-sinks-37-percent/ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Good thing there aren't Govt subsidies. Even the idea of insurance with our without Govt involvement is contradictory to the idea of paying your own way. So your gripe is with risk pooling and hedging risk.. okay, good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/11/americans-like-obamacare-where-they-can-get-it.html OMG, you mean in states where the states are cooperating Obamacare is working! During the first two weeks of November, almost sixty thousand people signed up for private insurance policies or for Medi-Cal, the local version of Medicaid. That’s more than twice the figure for all of October. “What we are seeing is incredible momentum,” Peter Lee, the director of Covered California, said at a press conference on Monday. Similar things are happening in other states across the country. An article in Tuesday’s Los Angeles Times cites Connecticut, Kentucky, Minnesota, and Washington as on track to exceed their enrollment targets. Here in New York, too, there are positive signs. Last week, officials reported that close to fifty thousand people had signed up for health insurance through the state’s new Web site, NY State of Health, with about half of them taking out private plans and half enrolling in Medicaid. “I would say we are seeing great interest in New York, and we are very pleased with our enrollment numbers,” Danielle Holahan, the deputy director for NY State of Health, said. Great article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 you're mandated to buy car insurance, at least in Colorado. Even if you don't have a car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Insurers restricting choice of doctors and hospitals to keep costs down http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/insurers-restricting-choice-of-doctors-and-hospitals-to-keep-costs-down/2013/11/20/98c84e20-4bb4-11e3-ac54-aa84301ced81_story.html FORMER DEMOCRATIC REP. HAROLD FORD: The Obama Administration Should Consider Shutting ObamaCare Down. TRAIN WRECK UPDATE: Obamacare Bailout Sought as Effort Planned to Bypass Site. It’s bailouts all the way down. Also, the bypass is illegal. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So your gripe is with risk pooling and hedging risk.. okay, good to know. No, it's with you not really meaning what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Even if you don't have a car? No, then you have to buy two policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 FORMER DEMOCRATIC REP. HAROLD FORD: The Obama Administration Should Consider Shutting ObamaCare Down. “I was with a big investor yesterday who said, you know, the next big challenge he believes for this, is that he believes there’s not enough doctors in the system,” Ford said, “so you get to 30 million people signed up. We don’t have enough physicians to accommodate the flood of people who want to have health insurance." Man...if only someone could have predicted this. Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 No, it's with you not really meaning what you're saying. Yes, I mean't what I said. You buy into a risk pool that covers losses. that is not a new or difficult concept to grasp. You aren't getting a free ride... If you mean people cash for every services and have no insurance, I am fine with that too. I just want to make sure they can be turned away of they run out of money. If they die, meh, that's what you get for being stupid and for poor planning. But sure as hell I am not paying for people like them. Man...if only someone could have predicted this. Oh, wait... So the better direction would just have been to say tough luck to those 30 million people? The Doctor shortage, which I think is bunk and about utilization not staffing, was an issue goign forward regalrdless of the ACA. It seems like to private healthcare marketplace had this issue long before HCR.. and he always cite Single Payor systems as the one with that problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) So the better direction would just have been to say tough luck to those 30 million people? The Doctor shortage, which I think is bunk and about utilization not staffing, was an issue goign forward regalrdless of the ACA. Sorry B, I guess I'll jump in here. It's a false argument (that we've had before) That this was "all or nothing" situation, and that there were no conservative ideas for lowering costs or increasing access. The dems got the (first step) plan that they wanted. JAMES TARANTO: They’re Desperate Now: ObamaCare supporters crank up the racial rhetoric. Sometimes it’s obvious when somebody states the obvious, and we’ve seen a lot of examples of late as America’s left-liberals have struggled to come to grips with the disaster of ObamaCare. Example: “The mismanagement of the website HealthCare.gov and the cancellation of millions of policies pushes an underlying question out into the open: Is the federal government capable of managing the provision of a fundamental service through an extraordinarily complex system?” Arguably the answer is no less obvious than the question. WHY WOMEN ARE abandoning Obama. “Why are women finally beginning to reject Mr. Obama? Because he betrayed their trust. It’s personal. With the truth of Obamacare on the table for all to see, including the higher premiums, the canceled policies, the excluded doctors and hospitals, the original targeted marketing of Obamacare to women has now been exposed as the cynical and manipulative fraud it really was.” . . Edited November 21, 2013 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Insurers restricting choice of doctors and hospitals to keep costs down http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/insurers-restricting-choice-of-doctors-and-hospitals-to-keep-costs-down/2013/11/20/98c84e20-4bb4-11e3-ac54-aa84301ced81_story.html . Interesting! Looks like insurance companies are simply telling people they have to go to cheaper hospitals to keep costs down. Well, we will have to change that and simply spend more money Man...if only someone could have predicted this. Oh, wait... They made the same argument in Great Britain after WW2, never panned out. It's just an argument, doesn't make it a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Fine, I'd love to scrap the whole employer insurance system and go with a goverment run system, but that is politically impossible. Your question about life insurance is silly. Why are people ruined by a death in the family? Because the family is left with f'n medical bills to pay off, I mean DUH! Sorry if DUH is too immature for you, but OMG, its th--no, it's--the internet Now there's a great argument! from someone who picks and chooses their arguments that is funny. You back out or hide when someone brings up something too tough for you yet mock someone for simply mocking you. That's ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 from someone who picks and chooses their arguments that is funny. You back out or hide when someone brings up something too tough for you yet mock someone for simply mocking you. That's ironic. You are a complete idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Sorry B, I guess I'll jump in here. It's a false argument (that we've had before) That this was "all or nothing" situation, and that there were no conservative ideas for lowering costs or increasing access. The dems got the (first step) plan that they wanted. JAMES TARANTO: They’re Desperate Now: ObamaCare supporters crank up the racial rhetoric. Sometimes it’s obvious when somebody states the obvious, and we’ve seen a lot of examples of late as America’s left-liberals have struggled to come to grips with the disaster of ObamaCare. Example: “The mismanagement of the website HealthCare.gov and the cancellation of millions of policies pushes an underlying question out into the open: Is the federal government capable of managing the provision of a fundamental service through an extraordinarily complex system?” Arguably the answer is no less obvious than the question. WHY WOMEN ARE abandoning Obama. “Why are women finally beginning to reject Mr. Obama? Because he betrayed their trust. It’s personal. With the truth of Obamacare on the table for all to see, including the higher premiums, the canceled policies, the excluded doctors and hospitals, the original targeted marketing of Obamacare to women has now been exposed as the cynical and manipulative fraud it really was.” . . B- the ACA is the Hertitage Foundation's framework, a conservative think tank, so we can agree the basis of HCR was founded in conservative ideals. Also, let's remeber at the healthcare summit, John Boehner, one of the most repsected R in leadership, came to that meeting with a blank piece of paper, literally and kept saying "Start Over"... The only plan I have seen come out in full, written form was from the American Enterprise Institute 3 years after HCR passed... I posted it here, it have very similar reforms, I to be honest I would have been fine with that plan as well. And lets be accurate, the Website Healthcare.org is !@#$ed up and embrassing, but the reforms made to the Healthcare systems overall are going to help alot of people. The website, !@#$ed up.. the reforms, good. Edited November 21, 2013 by B-Large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The website, !@#$ed up.. the reforms, good. Forcing people off the plans they currently have on to plans they can't afford is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Its because at this point, all reforms are splitting hairs from one another if we believe that private insurance compaines are to play a key role in our system. Whether it be buying insurance from Ohio when you live in Florida, capping Med LP claims, individuals mandates, laws against recission.. they are all the same or prety darn close. My propsed plan (I can't remeber if I posted this here, its been a while): 1. Every Amercians has a deductible they must meet for themselves and family. If you make 10K a year, its $100. If you make a million a year, maybe its 50K. But EVERYBODY has to write a check for their care, so they can see what the cost is, and providers will begin being transparent about their real costs, and complete for patients. 2. State or National Cat Pool- yes another tax, but a risk pool covering people once they make their deductible. At this point, what does a Private Insurance company really do anyway? Why can't a group of people who are experts in healthcare write up screening guidelines based on Evidence Based research? Treatment regimes based on EBR? If people want to pay for a test that is no considered standard of care, they can write a check. Its really simple, drug makers, hospitals and provider remain private, everybody is covered and everybody is paying a fair share... seems resoanble to me. This is what everyone paying their own way looks like to you? I think you mean paying their fair share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Forcing people off the plans they currently have on to plans they can't afford is good? What good is a plan that doesn't have your back when you need it? that sounds like a scam, not a benefit contract And way to focus on he minutea of people who have non-compliant plans, and ignore all the other reforms that will benfit 300+ Americans... but, please continue to nickpick and find items that fit your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) What good is a plan that doesn't have your back when you need it? that sounds like a scam, not a benefit contract And way to focus on he minutea of people who have non-compliant plans, and ignore all the other reforms that will benfit 300+ Americans... but, please continue to nickpick and find items that fit your agenda. Because single men need maternity coverage? http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115479/obamacare-rate-shock-men-why-they-should-cover-maternity-services WOW."The minutea" 4.2 million people have had their plans cancelled. You are heartless Edited November 21, 2013 by Gary M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'd rather have that than see people ruined by health care costs. Affordable health care is something the government should make happen. And that Obamacare stops the evil process of allowing insurance companies to simply dump people from health insurace for...BEING SICK! is moving forward You are blaming the President for the economy and calling me a retard?? Lol, Was the economic meltdown of 2008 Bush's fault? You are an idiot Why yes, yes I am. When he decided to unilaterally and illegally change the definition of "legal" insurance polices and create the expectation that insurers would resurrect dead policies, he created an impossible fiscal situation for insurers, government, and several million Americans (at least), the damage from which will take a significant amount of time and money to undo (at the very least, a minimum of a million people lost access to health care). More realistically, between the lost coverage, reduced providers, increased costs, and the sheer cost of fixing the administrative and regulatory mess this law has created at the federal and state level, a $30B-$40B hit to economic growth resulting from this train wreck is a pretty reasonable estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts