enlightener Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I think a true number 1 would catch game winning passes...not drop them. saying SJs a number 1 because hes the best the bills have is a flawed argument... it would mean that if calvin Johnson played next to AJ green then one of them would, by default, only be a number 2. Also what if a team had no good WRs? (like the bills) would their top contributor be called a "number 1 " WR and be able to play anywhere in the NFL and still put up big numbers? SJ got 1000 yard seasons because hes all we had. Andre Reed had BB, Lofton, Mkeller, Metzellars, and TT to share balls with. Even Moulds had Price or Evans or Reed and poor QBs or he would have easily got back to back G's. SJ is good and marginally a number 1.... til we have someone better who will take away much of his production. Edited May 30, 2013 by enlightener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I think a true number 1 would catch game winning passes...not drop them. saying SJs a number 1 because hes the best the bills have is a flawed argument... it would mean that if calvin Johnson played next to AJ green then one of them would, by default, only be a number 2. Also what if a team had no good WRs? (like the bills) would their top contributor be called a "number 1 " WR and be able to play anywhere in the NFL and still put up big numbers? SJ got 1000 yard seasons because hes all we had. Andre Reed had BB, Lofton, Mkeller, Metzellars, and TT to share balls with. Even Moulds had Price or Evans or Reed and poor QBs or he would have easily got back to back G's. SJ is good and marginally a number 1.... til we have someone better who will take away much of his production. Can't I use the same argument to prove that Larry Fitzgerald isn't a #1 WR? I mean, he was all that Arizona had last year, and he didn't even manage to put up Stevie's numbers... The arguments against the guy are very, very weak, and seem to amount to: - He dropped that pass against Pittsburgh - He isn't Calvin Johnson - He doesn't run a 4.3 - He's not 6'5" You tell me he wouldn't put up huge numbers with a bona fide QB throwing him the ball... Edited May 30, 2013 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I think a true number 1 would catch game winning passes...not drop them. saying SJs a number 1 because hes the best the bills have is a flawed argument... it would mean that if calvin Johnson played next to AJ green then one of them would, by default, only be a number 2. Also what if a team had no good WRs? (like the bills) would their top contributor be called a "number 1 " WR and be able to play anywhere in the NFL and still put up big numbers? SJ got 1000 yard seasons because hes all we had. Andre Reed had BB, Lofton, Mkeller, Metzellars, and TT to share balls with. Even Moulds had Price or Evans or Reed and poor QBs or he would have easily got back to back G's. SJ is good and marginally a number 1.... til we have someone better who will take away much of his production. Is wes welker called a number 1 receiver? Cuz he's about 400 yards above the outside receivers which would likely be 1 and 2. And it hurt going to the pats website to look up his stats. Before you look up the numbers, would you consider Vincent Jackson a #1 receiver? I'll give you his numbers as a reference but not Stevie's (and not his rank). Receiving Yards Leaders - All Players RK PLAYER TEAM REC TAR YDS AVG TD LONG 20+ YDS/G FUM YAC 1DN Vincent Jackson, WR TB 72 147 1,384 19.2 8 95 24 86.5 0 394 61 Edited May 30, 2013 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Im a true bills Fan and I want them to win....but when dude ( SJ13 ) cant catch a clutch pass,,,I couldnt give a sh.it whether he has 1000 meaningless yards! Cheers, Elvis on the Sidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yes but I've read multiple times on this board that Johnson is just a glorified #2 receiver. Yes, by a bunch of less than #2 posters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I guess I get caught on the other assertion though (one we all know to be true) that he doesn't possess elite leaping ability, and he's not going to beat anyone with his straight-away speed (we've seen him rundown many times AFTER he's burned the guy on his route. So, without those very important attributes, I'm wondering how specific his skill set is to the scheme, and if that skillset is SO specific, how often will he get the looks/touches that he got in the past? Lest we also forget, that between Woods and Rogers, we HAVE the kind of skillsets and physical attributes that have been missing since he's been aboard. Never saw this did ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Never saw this did ya? That is awesome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Never saw this did ya? That's awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I think a true number 1 would catch game winning passes...not drop them. So all the receptions that a receiver makes that keep the team in the game, or all the ones that he accumulates in a decisive victory, are meaningless because of a couple of magnified missed opportunities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 So all the receptions that a receiver makes that keep the team in the game, or all the ones that he accumulates in a decisive victory, are meaningless because of a couple of magnified missed opportunities? Not meaningless, but not worthy of the passion some posters have for putting Johnson on a pedestal. I wouldn't even put him in the Bobby Chandler category among all-time Bills: http://books.google.com/books?id=1N-SOaVJITgC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=bob+chandler+buffalo+bills&source=bl&ots=c5a4w0dBQj&sig=p2cDPPBZoqZ4UDhRDK-rSd-R9Qk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YhqoUYO7I4nB0AHyg4HgCQ&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsner Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Jerry Rice (same height as Stevie 6'2") but a tad slower at 4.71 vs. 4.59, and with the same quality of "Every route looks the same initially" had a fairly good career for being a slow guy. Stevie never has had the benefit of having a Montana throwing to him or a John Taylor drawing the respect of coverage or even a TE such as Brent Jones, not to mention a bruising running game with Roger Craig. If Kolb can show something or if EJ can be half of what Montana was then we can see what Stevie's ceiling is. Personally I'd be interested to see what he can do in the slot similar to what Welker has done. He can get it done if only someone would get him the ball. The man just gets open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Im a true bills Fan and I want them to win....but when dude ( SJ13 ) cant catch a clutch pass,,,I couldnt give a sh.it whether he has 1000 meaningless yards! Cheers, Elvis on the Sidelines So you would have preferred a meaningless 5-11 record instead of him amassing a meaningless 1074 yards on a 4-12 team? Had that dropped pass vs Pittsburgh actually mattered in the grand scheme I would understand but I've seen elite players drop passes like that too (and yes, that drop p!ssed me off too). When else has he cost the team a 'W'? What he has been able to do with the quality of players around him (QB and other WR's) I understand why people say he's the #1 by default but I expect the talent that he will have around him this year will make him that much better. Edited May 31, 2013 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Im a true bills Fan and I want them to win....but when dude ( SJ13 ) cant catch a clutch pass,,,I couldnt give a sh.it whether he has 1000 meaningless yards! Cheers, Elvis on the Sidelines Again, you're acting as if the Pittsburgh game is the only time they've thrown to Stevie in an important situation. Why do you neglect the 3 TDs he had that sparked a huge comeback win against Cincinnati in 2010? Why neglect the 2nd half TDs against Oakland and NE that sparked huge comeback wins in early 2011? Why ignore the go-ahead TD grab in the 4th quarter against Tennessee last year simply because the defense couldn't stop Matt Hasselbeck's 2-minute drill? Answer: because your mind is made up regardless of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Again, you're acting as if the Pittsburgh game is the only time they've thrown to Stevie in an important situation. Why do you neglect the 3 TDs he had that sparked a huge comeback win against Cincinnati in 2010? Why neglect the 2nd half TDs against Oakland and NE that sparked huge comeback wins in early 2011? Why ignore the go-ahead TD grab in the 4th quarter against Tennessee last year simply because the defense couldn't stop Matt Hasselbeck's 2-minute drill? Answer: because your mind is made up regardless of the facts. theres no need to bring logic into this argument. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 And the conclusion to the article..... "Johnson isn’t an elite talent, he doesn’t have the physical attributes for that, but he is an exceptionally good, consistent receiver when he can fill a role that fits his abilities." Sounds like a glorified #2 to me! It's funny how you left off the end of that conclusion: "In a better situation and the right scheme, Johnson could easily be competing at the top of the league with the best receivers outside of guys like Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsadale Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 And the conclusion to the article..... "Johnson isn’t an elite talent, he doesn’t have the physical attributes for that, but he is an exceptionally good, consistent receiver when he can fill a role that fits his abilities." Sounds like a glorified #2 to me! ........Ask Revis what he is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 ........Ask Revis what he is..... ask any defensive back what he is. He likely gives fits to everyone he lines up against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 And the conclusion to the article..... "Johnson isn’t an elite talent, he doesn’t have the physical attributes for that, but he is an exceptionally good, consistent receiver when he can fill a role that fits his abilities." Sounds like a glorified #2 to me! if other teams best cover man can't cover you, your a # 1. ask Sherman or revis if he is a #2. Sherman gave up two scores, and two 100 yard games last year. Calvin, & Stevie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Stevie's worst game came against Houston. They ONLY respected Stevie. Linebackers, and safety support over, and under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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