What about LG?

[....lybob]

I'd like to see Hairston win the job. He has great feet but lacks the wingspan to play outside.

Hairston's arm length is 35.25inch, if he can't play outside it isn't for lack of arm lengt,h his wingspan is fine.

[KOKBILLS]

Hairston's arm length is 35.25inch, if he can't play outside it isn't for lack of arm lengt,h his wingspan is fine.

 

Agreed...

 

I think they want Hairston to compete with Pears for the RT position...I'm going to be interested to see if Marrone can get him to reach his potential there...

 

I'm just guessing, but I think the Bills would like to see Sanders step up and grab the starting LG job...He's (Sanders) going to be on John Murphy's show tomorrow night...So hopefully we'll get an update on the injury situation and whether or not he's going to get a look inside...

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Colin brown is nasty and could be the guy but needs to stay healthy.

[NickelCity]

Sanders has never faced real NFL defenders and is coming off surgery to both hips. We spent too many years with crappy o-lines. I know guards are supposedly easy to replace, but I am concerned. If we run a fast offense it will really help, but I don't see who we're going to play. I was unimpressed with Sam Young and Colin Brown last year.

 

+1

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I expect Colin Brown to get the first shot at LG. The guy is a little but tall for an OG, but he's got a nasty streak to him and could be a solid fill-in for Levitre. With some coaching on his footwork/technique, I think he could be a viable starter.

[thewildrabbit]

Sanders has never faced real NFL defenders and is coming off surgery to both hips. We spent too many years with crappy o-lines. I know guards are supposedly easy to replace, but I am concerned. If we run a fast offense it will really help, but I don't see who we're going to play. I was unimpressed with Sam Young and Colin Brown last year.

What this front office / owner / GM fail to realize is the O line isn't like any other unit of the team. The line has to play like one cohesive unit, and understand and know exactly what every other player is doing or it doesn't work. Continuity, which is something you can never achieve in a season if different players on the line are always injured and being substituted in and out.

 

Look at the Bills line the last 4 years, the only player who played every down, every season in his 4 year career was allowed to leave in free agency, and then they don't even try and replace him in the draft

 

The fools in charge of this franchise have been trying to get by with sub par O lines the last 12 years, and look where it has gotten them. They spend more time drafting top DB's and replacing them every few years, and are less concerned with building the O lines. What it has gotten them is QB's who come in trusting the line to protect them. In the beginning they do well, they start to put up decent numbers and then end up shell shocked, and out after a few years

 

In 2002 GM / President Tom Donahoe traded for Drew Bledsoe, and if given time in the pocket he could dismantle any defense. He would literally slaughter the bad teams which had little or no rush and then he would crumble / fold against the good teams with a good pass rush. In 2002 he had one of his best seasons ever passing for 375 comp, 610 attempts for 4359 yards. Still the Bills went 8-8 because the defense was 27th in pts against, 15th in yards against.

 

Now, knowing that Bledsoe is a monster if given enough protection, what do the Bills do? They tell him to speed up the clock in his head,and to get rid of the ball quicker. At age 30 they want this leopard to change colors! Which only results in making things worse. So they draft a young QB out of Tulane who has a rep for playing well while rolling out. Guess what, instead of fixing the problem they try and band-aid the situation as usual. So a few years and out for JP, (2004-2008) blaming all the problems on him.

 

Meanwhile, in 2007 the Bills draft a kid out of Stanford in the 3rd round with a glowing endorsement from WCO legend Bill Walsh. So what do the Bills do, but throw him into the fire his first year. He played 10 games in 07, and went on to look like the franchise savior in 2008 going 5-1. In week 4 against the Arizona Cardinals (who would go to the SB this year) In the 3rd offensive play the line didn't protect the QB as a safety came unblocked The result was a severe concussion on a young QB. Trent Edwards simply regressed after that, never trusting his line again. Another QB 4 years and out. But it was all his fault, because he sucked is what most Bills fans will tell you.

 

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same. One of these years they will hire GM / HC who gets that you need a top O line to win in this league. Until that time I wouldn't expect any QB to succeed

Edited May 3, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[bowery4]

Nah that is kind of BS^ the majority of the guys on the line have played together in one form or another over the last 3 years. I really think "gelling" is something that 2007-8 needed because they lacked talent. This group is miles above that.

As I said in the "why didn't we draft Oline in a draft, heavy with olinemen" thread. By the way, I hate that your user name. Fear nothing, we all end up dead anyway and losing is for learning.

 

I tend to think, they think they can pick up and play guys who come from PSs or are waived (actually Buddy is good at doing that, IMO) Plus they do have depth that they can plug in from other positions. Coach was an oline man, a oline coach and he has an excellent oline coach on staff. Seems they just aren't that worried about it. The biggest drop off I can see with this group coming from last year would be because of the lack of Fitz's quick release, they may give up more sacks.

 

Brown was IRed last year too but in limited action looked soild. The year before he got lots of duty, I think he is very good in the run game and needs pass pro work, he is a giant but our new QB should be able to work with the 2 inch difference. I really think they will have this handled.

One question I have though, did anyone else watch vids of Nassib and think that the Orange really did lack in the Oline department or is that just an impression I got from his youtube stuff.

 

 

I was actually thinking about this today while mowing my yard (helps the time go a bit faster).

 

Anyhow, I simply think the BIlls are going to follow the example of the Baltimore Ravens in the Play-offs last year--they resigned Bryant McKinney to a new deal today. If you recall, at some point towards the end of the year, the Ravens decided they were going to start their 5 best lineman, regardless of the listed position. I think that is what the Bills are about to do as well.

 

Several posters have suggested that Zanders, maybe even Hairston or Pears might move inside. I think it could very well happen; that is, if they are among the top 5 linemen on the team.

 

I, however, think that Brown played pretty well when called upon last year, and I would not be surprised at all if he does end up being the starting LG.

I think you are thinking of the year before but yes

 

I expect Colin Brown to get the first shot at LG. The guy is a little but tall for an OG, but he's got a nasty streak to him and could be a solid fill-in for Levitre. With some coaching on his footwork/technique, I think he could be a viable starter.

Agree

Edited May 3, 2013 by bowery4

[thewildrabbit]

Nah that is kind of BS^ the majority of the guys on the line have played together in one form or another over the last 3 years. I really think "gelling" is something that 2007-8 needed because they lacked talent. This group is miles above that.

As I said in the "why didn't we draft Oline in a draft, heavy with olinemen" thread. By the way, I hate that your user name. Fear nothing, we all end up dead anyway and losing is for learning.

My user name used to be FeartheBeard because Fitz / Gailey sported beards. I changed to that name in 2011 after they went 5-2, and it looked like the Bills might actually field a winning team for a change.

 

In week 8 against the Redskins ex Bill LBer London Fletcher hit Fitz so hard he broke / cracked some ribs. Gailey knowing this, still allowed Fitz to continue to play the rest of the season, and the vicious cycle of beaten down Bills QB's strikes again. Fitz should have been benched / pulled from the lineup until he was healthy again, and able to play. Michael Vick had the same injury and he was pulled for a few weeks. Broken ribs is a very serious injury and very painful to even breathe at times, much less heave a football around for 60 min.

 

At the end of 2011, after going 6-10. and another losing season I changed the user name again to FeartheLosing, for obvious reasons. Haven't had a chance or real reason to change the user name yet.

 

 

This group of O linemen currently on the roster isn't miles above anything. They had All pro LT Jason Peters, LG Dockery, C Fowler, RG Butler, RT Walker in 2007 and except C Melvin Fowler all those players were better then current line. The problem was that Fowler, the center was so lame he ruined the entire line. The center anchors the line and usually calls the protections. Current Bills C Eric Wood could be an all pro "IF" he ever lasts an entire season. Wood 47 out of 65 games and still hasn't finished a season in four years. Kinda why every year when he goes down, the team goes with him.

 

Why that line went into the toilet later was because 25 year veteran O line coach Jim McNally retired and Jauron replaced him with an assistant.

 

Cordy Glenn and Hairston may develop into very good tackles, but until one becomes an all pro they are not better then Peters. Glenn played well last season but he also didn't play16 games. The Bills line played appeared to play well last season for two reasons. First, Fitz and his ability to get the ball out to the receiver in 1.5 to 3 seconds which usually negates the opposing pass rush. Still, he was hit quite often after the ball was already out (London Fletcher hit)

Second, was the offensive scheme Gailey ran, a spread offense with the quick, short slants so the O linemen never had to continuously hold blocks longer then 3 seconds.

 

When the Bills needed a first down on 3rd an short they usually passed because Gailey knew the line couldn't make it in a closed formation. They had tried 3rd and short in closed formations several times and always failed. The line couldn't even give Fitz time to throw at the end of the game against the pukey Titans (32nd in pts allowed last year) in week 7 when everyone was healthy.

 

This current line is not as good as everyone thinks it is. You don't need to believe me, just wait until the season starts and see for yourselves.

Edited May 3, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[....lybob]

don't leave out Chris Scott or Keith Williams as contenders for the LG spot - I think C.Brown is valued more for his versatility (guard, center, RT) than his ability to start .

[thebandit27]

My user name used to be FeartheBeard because Fitz / Gailey sported beards. I changed to that name in 2011 after they went 5-2, and it looked like the Bills might actually field a winning team for a change.

 

In week 8 against the Redskins ex Bill LBer London Fletcher hit Fitz so hard he broke / cracked some ribs. Gailey knowing this, still allowed Fitz to continue to play the rest of the season, and the vicious cycle of beaten down Bills QB's strikes again. Fitz should have been benched / pulled from the lineup until he was healthy again, and able to play. Michael Vick had the same injury and he was pulled for a few weeks. Broken ribs is a very serious injury and very painful to even breathe at times, much less heave a football around for 60 min.

 

At the end of 2011, after going 6-10. and another losing season I changed the user name again to FeartheLosing, for obvious reasons. Haven't had a chance or real reason to change the user name yet.

 

 

This group of O linemen currently on the roster isn't miles above anything. They had All pro LT Jason Peters, LG Dockery, C Fowler, RG Butler, RT Walker in 2007 and except C Melvin Fowler all those players were better then current line. The problem was that Fowler, the center was so lame he ruined the entire line. The center anchors the line and usually calls the protections. Current Bills C Eric Wood could be an all pro "IF" he ever lasts an entire season. Wood 47 out of 65 games and still hasn't finished a season in four years. Kinda why every year when he goes down, the team goes with him.

 

Why that line went into the toilet later was because 25 year veteran O line coach Jim McNally retired and Jauron replaced him with an assistant.

 

Cordy Glenn and Hairston may develop into very good tackles, but until one becomes an all pro they are not better then Peters. Glenn played well last season but he also didn't play16 games. The Bills line played appeared to play well last season for two reasons. First, Fitz and his ability to get the ball out to the receiver in 1.5 to 3 seconds which usually negates the opposing pass rush. Still, he was hit quite often after the ball was already out (London Fletcher hit)

Second, was the offensive scheme Gailey ran, a spread offense with the quick, short slants so the O linemen never had to continuously hold blocks longer then 3 seconds.

 

When the Bills needed a first down on 3rd an short they usually passed because Gailey knew the line couldn't make it in a closed formation. They had tried 3rd and short in closed formations several times and always failed. The line couldn't even give Fitz time to throw at the end of the game against the pukey Titans (32nd in pts allowed last year) in week 7 when everyone was healthy.

 

This current line is not as good as everyone thinks it is. You don't need to believe me, just wait until the season starts and see for yourselves.

 

Okay, I used to think we just thought differently, but after reading that sentence I am now pretty certain that you're just trying to ruffle feathers with ridiculous comments.

 

Peters I'll give you, the rest is pure garbage talk. Butler was not a better player than Urbik; Urbik has been very good the past 2 years playing RG and filling in at C. Walker was brutal, and in no way was a better player than either Pears or Hairston...and Dockery was a complete bust.

 

Just by a simple comparison, the 2007 line was almost identical in terms of pass blocking, surrendering 26 sacks on 443 pass attempts, for an average of 17 attempts per sack. The 2012 line surrendered 30 sacks on 511 attempts, for an average of 17 attempts per sack.

 

Run blocking in 2012 was better by 25%...the Bills were 4th in the NFL in yards per carry at 5.0, in comparison to 2007, where they ranked 15th at 4.0. And before you say it's all about the RBs, the advanced stats don't support that theory. Check out Football Outsiders for the details:

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Description:

 

A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work

 

Neither of the above is the case, as the Bills rank 8th in Adjusted Line Yards and 4th in RB yards, indicating that it's both the RBs and the OL that contribute to the high YPC. The team also ranked 10th in adjusted sack rate, which takes into account sacks, pressures, downs, and distances, so hiding behind the "Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly and covers for the OL" argument won't fly when you delve into the numbers.

 

What you're saying, plain and simple, is inaccurate. Feel free to continue to trumpet it as you please, and since I've repeatedly made my case with hard numbers I'll refrain from pointing out the very real flaws in it any further.

 

don't leave out Chris Scott or Keith Williams as contenders for the LG spot - I think C.Brown is valued more for his versatility (guard, center, RT) than his ability to start .

 

Reading the tea leaves, I think--right now--that Young is the most likely to move to OG.

[jumbalaya]

Gut feeling is that they think sanders can play or else we would have picked up someone in FA or late in the draft.

Starnge gamble because Sanders may not even be ready to play by training camp.

[thewildrabbit]

Okay, I used to think we just thought differently, but after reading that sentence I am now pretty certain that you're just trying to ruffle feathers with ridiculous comments.

 

Peters I'll give you, the rest is pure garbage talk. Butler was not a better player than Urbik; Urbik has been very good the past 2 years playing RG and filling in at C. Walker was brutal, and in no way was a better player than either Pears or Hairston...and Dockery was a complete bust.

 

Just by a simple comparison, the 2007 line was almost identical in terms of pass blocking, surrendering 26 sacks on 443 pass attempts, for an average of 17 attempts per sack. The 2012 line surrendered 30 sacks on 511 attempts, for an average of 17 attempts per sack.

 

Run blocking in 2012 was better by 25%...the Bills were 4th in the NFL in yards per carry at 5.0, in comparison to 2007, where they ranked 15th at 4.0. And before you say it's all about the RBs, the advanced stats don't support that theory. Check out Football Outsiders for the details:

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Description:

 

A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work

 

Neither of the above is the case, as the Bills rank 8th in Adjusted Line Yards and 4th in RB yards, indicating that it's both the RBs and the OL that contribute to the high YPC. The team also ranked 10th in adjusted sack rate, which takes into account sacks, pressures, downs, and distances, so hiding behind the "Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly and covers for the OL" argument won't fly when you delve into the numbers.

 

What you'resaying, plain and simple, is inaccurate. Feel free to continue to trumpet it as you please, and since I've repeatedly made my case with hard numbers I'll refrain from pointing out the very real flaws in it any further.

Like many others that post here, you read things, but don't interpret what others actually say. Not everything is black and white and pure stats.

 

Throw the stats out the window for pass blocking / run blocking between two totally different offenses with two / three totally different QB's.

 

Losman wasn't as good as Edwards, and Edwards had an actual faster release then Fitz, but then he couldn't get the ball out to the open receiver faster at all. Couldn't read the defense as well and couldn't set protections at the line like Fitz. Plus, he had more of a tendency to check down to the RB's because he didn't trust his receivers / line. Then under Jauron with OC's Steve fairchild, Turk Schonert, AVP he was forced to run a semblance of the Mike Martz passing offense which calls for more 5-7 step deep drops when he clearly didn't have the time on many occasions. What good did brining in TO do if they couldn't always get him the ball.

 

Dick Jauron ran an offense from mostly a closed, shotgun formation for Losman / Edwards. But at least the Bills could make a first down on 3rd and short at that time. Jauron kept flip flopping between the two young QB's that year. The O line was not that bad in 2007 except for the center Melvin Fowler, who was a complete waste of space, as his bad play made the whole line look bad. Like I stated above, 28 year veteran O line coach retired at the end of 07 and the line did go to hell as nobody played up to the previous level under the new assistant O line coach in 08 -09.

 

Duke Preston was the new center in 08 and he was just about as bad as Fowler. That 08 Bills line allowed the unblocked hit that severely concussed Trent Edwards in Arizona. Also, there was a game in 08 against the Jets in which Jets DT Kris Jenkins was triple teamed by the Bills center and both guards Dockery, Preston, Butler and Jenkins still broke thru the triple team and still got to the QB. I can remember announcer Phil Simms ranting about it. I believe that after watching that performance by his O line that Jauron finally decided to upgrade the line in the 09 draft by selecting Wood & Levitre. Jauron should have drafted for the line when he first got to buffalo, instead of brining in overpriced free agent players

 

I admit by the end of their collective time in Buffalo, Dockery & Walker both sucked. However, Brad Butler was not that bad.

 

 

OTOH, Chan Gaileys shotgun spread offense allowed the RB's to make bigger gains, and longer runs because the offense was spread out. So once the RB broke free of the line there were less defenders to make the tackle, hence the longer runs. Like I have stated many times, Fitz had many flaws, but getting the ball out quickly to the open receiver (SJ) wasn't one of them, and he had excellent escape-ability once the pocket broke down.

Gaileys short / quick passing scheme along with Fitz at QB was the biggest reason why the pass blocking looked so much better with him under center. Fitz's play hid a lot of the flaws in that line, and even if the Bills run the same scheme Gailey ran, will Kolb, Jackson or even a rookie be able to hide those flaws?

 

 

 

Like I stated above, "This current line is not as good as everyone thinks it is. You don't need to believe me, just wait until the season starts and see for yourselves."

Edited May 3, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[metzelaars_lives]

We can't seriously be thinking about starting Colin Brown or hoping someone even lower on the depth chart can start... Why haven't OBD looked more seriously at Brandon Moore? Seems like the guy we need? Any other suggestions out there for our Game 1 starter??

 

Why? Have you broken down his game film and determined that he's not starter-worthy? We acquired him in much the same manner we acquired Urbik and Rinehart. He's a mid-round draft pick that we picked up off another team's practice squad and he's got a good pedigree. I think they like David Snow also. You can second guess Buddy Nix all you want but if nothing else, he's proven that he knows what he's doing when it comes to interior linemen.

[Koufax]

Fungible position. I want to have a very good LG, but I think that it shouldn't be Dockery, and between other team salary cap cuts and our current roster, someone completely reasonable will emerge by the start of the season, and I would rather have a competition than an overpriced starter (but most of all I would rather have Leveitre at a bargain rate, but that wasn't possible).

[thebandit27]

Like many others that post here, you read things, but don't interpret what others actually say. Not everything is black and white and pure stats.

 

Throw the stats out the window for pass blocking / run blocking between two totally different offenses with two / three totally different QB's.

 

Losman wasn't as good as Edwards, and Edwards had an actual faster release then Fitz, but then he couldn't get out to the open receiver faster at all. Couldn't read the defense as well and couldn't set protections at the line like Fitz. Plus, he had more of a tendency to check down to the RB's because he didn't trust his receivers / line. Then under Jauron with OC's Steve fairchild, Turk Schonert, AVP he was forced to run a semblance of the Mike Martz passing offense which calls for more 5-7 step deep drops when he clearly didn't have the time on many occasions. What good did brining in TO do if they couldn't always get him the ball.

 

Dick Jauron ran an offense from mostly a closed, shotgun formation for Losman / Edwards. But at least the Bills could make a first down on 3rd and short at that time. Jauron kept flip flopping between the two young QB's that year. The O line was not that bad in 2007 except for the center Melvin Fowler, who was a complete waste of space, as his bad play made the whole line look bad. Like I stated above, 28 year veteran O line coach retired at the end of 07 and the line did go to hell as nobody played up to the previous level under the new assistant O line coach in 08 -09.

 

Duke Preston was the new center in 08 and he was just about as bad as Fowler. That 08 Bills line allowed the unblocked hit that severely concussed Trent Edwards in Arizona. Also, there was a game in 08 against the Jets in which Jets DT Kris Jenkins was triple teamed by the Bills center and both guards Dockery, Preston, Butler and Jenkins still broke thru the triple team and still got to the QB. I can remember announcer Phil Simms ranting about it. I believe that after watching that performance by his O line that Jauron finally decided to upgrade the line in the 09 draft by selecting Wood & Levitre. Jauron should have drafted for the line when he first got to buffalo, instead of brining in overpriced free agent players

 

I admit by the end of their collective time in Buffalo, Dockery & Walker both sucked. However, Brad Butler was not that bad.

 

 

OTOH, Chan Gaileys shotgun spread offense allowed the RB's to make bigger gains, and longer runs because the offense was spread out. So once the RB broke free of the line there were less defenders to make the tackle, hence the longer runs. Like I have stated many times, Fitz had many flaws, but getting the ball out quickly to the open receiver (SJ) wasn't one of them, and he had excellent escape-ability once the pocket broke down. Fitz was the biggest reason why the pass blocking looked so much better with him under center.

 

 

Like I stated above, "This current line is not as good as everyone thinks it is. You don't need to believe me, just wait until the season starts and see for yourselves."

 

Except that, once again, your supposition regarding Fitz and the current line is not correct. You can't simply rely on what you think you see; there are people who make a living charting the actual data for things like "time to pass" and "actual time protected". I know you don't think that useful information can be gleaned from stats, but in this one case, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you'll appreciate the hard data. Observe:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

 

While Fitz is very, very good at getting rid of the ball quickly (5th best in the league actually), he also benefits from having an OL that afforded him a time-to-sack of more than 3.5 seconds, on average. That ranked in the top 1/3 in the league in 2012. You want to see a bad OL? Look at the time that Peyton Manning and Big Ben had...that's bad. Brees, RG3, Brady, Luck, Stafford...all of them had a lower average time to sack than Fitz. When Fitz got sacked, it wasn't often because the protection broke down, like you see with guys like Kolb, Rivers, Manning, etc.

 

Now, the kicker...if you read through to the 3rd page of the analysis provided by PFF, you'll see that Fitz--in contrast to what you imply with your assessment--has a dropoff in QB rating of over 39 point when given more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. If you're wondering why Gailey called mostly quick, timing routes for Fitz, that's got a lot to do with it...he's a much better passer when he throws timing routes.

 

As I said, I fundamentally disagree with your statement, and I'm eager to see the line continue to produce 5.0 yards per carry and provide top-10 pass protection in the coming year.

[Dopey]

Like many others that post here, you read things, but don't interpret what others actually say. Not everything is black and white and pure stats.

 

Throw the stats out the window for pass blocking / run blocking between two totally different offenses with two / three totally different QB's.

 

Losman wasn't as good as Edwards, and Edwards had an actual faster release then Fitz, but then he couldn't get the ball out to the open receiver faster at all. Couldn't read the defense as well and couldn't set protections at the line like Fitz. Plus, he had more of a tendency to check down to the RB's because he didn't trust his receivers / line. Then under Jauron with OC's Steve fairchild, Turk Schonert, AVP he was forced to run a semblance of the Mike Martz passing offense which calls for more 5-7 step deep drops when he clearly didn't have the time on many occasions. What good did brining in TO do if they couldn't always get him the ball.

 

Dick Jauron ran an offense from mostly a closed, shotgun formation for Losman / Edwards. But at least the Bills could make a first down on 3rd and short at that time. Jauron kept flip flopping between the two young QB's that year. The O line was not that bad in 2007 except for the center Melvin Fowler, who was a complete waste of space, as his bad play made the whole line look bad. Like I stated above, 28 year veteran O line coach retired at the end of 07 and the line did go to hell as nobody played up to the previous level under the new assistant O line coach in 08 -09.

 

Duke Preston was the new center in 08 and he was just about as bad as Fowler. That 08 Bills line allowed the unblocked hit that severely concussed Trent Edwards in Arizona. Also, there was a game in 08 against the Jets in which Jets DT Kris Jenkins was triple teamed by the Bills center and both guards Dockery, Preston, Butler and Jenkins still broke thru the triple team and still got to the QB. I can remember announcer Phil Simms ranting about it. I believe that after watching that performance by his O line that Jauron finally decided to upgrade the line in the 09 draft by selecting Wood & Levitre. Jauron should have drafted for the line when he first got to buffalo, instead of brining in overpriced free agent players

 

I admit by the end of their collective time in Buffalo, Dockery & Walker both sucked. However, Brad Butler was not that bad.

 

 

OTOH, Chan Gaileys shotgun spread offense allowed the RB's to make bigger gains, and longer runs because the offense was spread out. So once the RB broke free of the line there were less defenders to make the tackle, hence the longer runs. Like I have stated many times, Fitz had many flaws, but getting the ball out quickly to the open receiver (SJ) wasn't one of them, and he had excellent escape-ability once the pocket broke down.

Gaileys short / quick passing scheme along with Fitz at QB was the biggest reason why the pass blocking looked so much better with him under center. Fitz's play hid a lot of the flaws in that line, and even if the Bills run the same scheme Gailey ran, will Kolb, Jackson or even a rookie be able to hide those flaws?

 

 

 

Like I stated above, "This current line is not as good as everyone thinks it is. You don't need to believe me, just wait until the season starts and see for yourselves."

I thought walker played RT pretty well. It's when he was moved to LT where he went downhill. He was brought in as a RT and should have stayed there. He wasn't a LT and we weakened two spots(LT and RT) instead trying to find a replacement LT.IMO

Edited May 3, 2013 by Dopey

[thewildrabbit]

Except that, once again, your supposition regarding Fitz and the current line is not correct. You can't simply rely on what you think you see; there are people who make a living charting the actual data for things like "time to pass" and "actual time protected". I know you don't think that useful information can be gleaned from stats, but in this one case, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you'll appreciate the hard data. Observe:

 

https://www.profootb...-time-to-throw/

 

While Fitz is very, very good at getting rid of the ball quickly (5th best in the league actually), he also benefits from having an OL that afforded him a time-to-sack of more than 3.5 seconds, on average. That ranked in the top 1/3 in the league in 2012. You want to see a bad OL? Look at the time that Peyton Manning and Big Ben had...that's bad. Brees, RG3, Brady, Luck, Stafford...all of them had a lower average time to sack than Fitz. When Fitz got sacked, it wasn't often because the protection broke down, like you see with guys like Kolb, Rivers, Manning, etc.

 

Now, the kicker...if you read through to the 3rd page of the analysis provided by PFF, you'll see that Fitz--in contrast to what you imply with your assessment--has a dropoff in QB rating of over 39 point when given more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. If you're wondering why Gailey called mostly quick, timing routes for Fitz, that's got a lot to do with it...he's a much better passer when he throws timing routes.

 

As I said, I fundamentally disagree with your statement, and I'm eager to see the line continue to produce 5.0 yards per carry and provide top-10 pass protection in the coming year.

You seem gleefully optimistic, good luck with that. I'll believe it when I see it.

[thewildrabbit]

I thought walker played RT pretty well. It's when he was moved to LT where he went downhill. He was brought in as a RT and should have stayed there. He wasn't a LT and we weakened two spots(LT and RT) instead trying to find a replacement LT.IMO

That, plus Jauron scrood the pooch with Walker. He wanted to run the hurry up / no huddle at the start of the 09 season so he set it up in pre season. Then when Walker didn't get to the line quickly enough for Jauron he cut him two weeks before the start of the season. Kirk Chambers replaced him at RT. Walker went back to the Raiders, and played in 7 games for them in 09. 15 game starts in 2010.

 

Jauron also fired his OC Turk Schonert two weeks before the season started and promoted QB coach AVP. Who really wasn't ready for that job, thus scuttling his own team.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Except that, once again, your supposition regarding Fitz and the current line is not correct. You can't simply rely on what you think you see; there are people who make a living charting the actual data for things like "time to pass" and "actual time protected". I know you don't think that useful information can be gleaned from stats, but in this one case, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you'll appreciate the hard data. Observe:

 

https://www.profootb...-time-to-throw/

 

While Fitz is very, very good at getting rid of the ball quickly (5th best in the league actually), he also benefits from having an OL that afforded him a time-to-sack of more than 3.5 seconds, on average. That ranked in the top 1/3 in the league in 2012. You want to see a bad OL? Look at the time that Peyton Manning and Big Ben had...that's bad. Brees, RG3, Brady, Luck, Stafford...all of them had a lower average time to sack than Fitz. When Fitz got sacked, it wasn't often because the protection broke down, like you see with guys like Kolb, Rivers, Manning, etc.

 

Now, the kicker...if you read through to the 3rd page of the analysis provided by PFF, you'll see that Fitz--in contrast to what you imply with your assessment--has a dropoff in QB rating of over 39 point when given more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball. If you're wondering why Gailey called mostly quick, timing routes for Fitz, that's got a lot to do with it...he's a much better passer when he throws timing routes.

 

As I said, I fundamentally disagree with your statement, and I'm eager to see the line continue to produce 5.0 yards per carry and provide top-10 pass protection in the coming year.

 

Bravo.

[thebandit27]

You seem gleefully optimistic, good luck with that. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Well when all signs point to one obvious conclusion, optimism in that direction is a natural development.

 

 

 

Bravo.

 

Thank you sir