metzelaars_lives Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I had a long post and I lost it. Not gonna re-write it. All I'll say is Joe, it should tell you something that it's been since yesterday and you're still the only one who believes this. This is an entire website devoted to all things Buffalo Bills and you may literally be the only one on the entire website who believes this. It's really kind of insane. Do you remember the 6-3 game against the Browns? The home loss against the 49ers? Fitz took an offense that was pathetic, putrid, unwatchable, embarrassing, et al under your buddy Edwards and turned them into an average NFL offense. Period, end of story. All the numbers are there to back it up. Between 2005 and 2009 under your buddies, they never ranked higher than 25th on offense. They ranked 30th twice. The last two seasons with Fitz taking basically every snap, they've finished 14th and 19th. The gap in points scored is even more "sizemic." 3 years- 3,000+ yards, 25+ TD's each year. Numbers that Losman or Edwards could never even dream of putting up. You really gotta let this one go. Edited March 11, 2013 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 how do you have fitz last? you do remember they cut trent edwards to play fitz. 1. fitz, 2. edwards 3. losman. its like comparing the tallest midget but still fitz is much better than those 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I had a long post and I lost it. Not gonna re-write it. All I'll say is Joe, it should tell you something that it's been since yesterday and you're still the only one who believes this. This is an entire website devoted to all things Buffalo Bills and you may literally be the only one on the entire website who believes this. It's really kind of insane. Do you remember the 6-3 game against the Browns? The home loss against the 49ers? Fitz took an offense that was pathetic, putrid, unwatchable, embarrassing, et al under your buddy Edwards and turned them into an average NFL offense. Period, end of story. All the numbers are there to back it up. Between 2005 and 2009 under your buddies, they never ranked higher than 25th on offense. They ranked 30th twice. The last two seasons with Fitz taking basically every snap, they've finished 14th and 19th. The gap in points scored is even more "sizemic." 3 years- 3,000+ yards, 25+ TD's each year. Numbers that Losman or Edwards could never even dream of putting up. You really gotta let this one go. Peer pressure doesnt mean a hill of beans to me, so i dont care what the "consensus" thinks. Most of my best investments have been made under the cloud of everyone telling me I was crazy. The "numbers" in favor of Fitz are easily explained going from a defensive-minded, conservative, and offensively-inept HC like Jauron to the mirror opposite in Gailey. Edited March 11, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Peer pressure doesnt mean a hill of beans to me, so i dont care what the "consensus" thinks. Most of my best investments have been made under the cloud of everyone telling me I was crazy. The "numbers" in favor of Fitz are easily explained going from a defensive-minded, conservative, and offensively-inept HC like Jauron to the mirror opposite in Gailey. look, joe is the definition of insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 its not peer pressure. Its believe something thats not true. Its like me ranking our receiving core these past few years and putting stevie johnson last. Its just silly talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Peer pressure doesnt mean a hill of beans to me, so i dont care what the "consensus" thinks. Most of my best investments have been made under the cloud of everyone telling me I was crazy. The "numbers" in favor of Fitz are easily explained going from a defensive-minded, conservative, and offensively-inept HC like Jauron to the mirror opposite in Gailey. Alright Gordan Gecko, there's a huge difference betwen something speculative like an investment and looking at game film from the last decade and talking about who is a better QB. For instance, you could say that Aaron Rodgers is going to have a down year next year and most people would tell you you're crazy, but it hasn't happened yet, so you can't be proven wrong until the event you're speculating about transpires. In this case, every imaginable statistic plus the eye test would indicate to every other Bills fan I've ever known except you that Ryan Fitzpatrick was a better QB than JP Losman or Trent Edwards by a considerable margin. We get it, you don't like Fitzpatrick, but just to be clear: every post you make defending your point of view is diminishing your credibility as a poster on this website. I still think there's a good chance you're trolling on this one. This is how outlandish your point of view is. Look at every other response. So by your line of reasoning, the Bills offense took a plunge after Fitz replaced Edwards in 2010, correct? Edited March 11, 2013 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Losman is a textbook example of what not to do when drafting a first round QB. 99 times out of 100, it's a mistake to take the guy with the shiny physical tools, who's never shown good accuracy or a decent grasp of the mental side of the game. Teams should err on the side of taking the guy who's a little more physically limited, but who makes up for that with great accuracy and great mental abilities. Joe Montana lasted until the third round, largely because of his lack of arm strength. Good points. Losman was hardly "thrown in". He sat his ass on the bench after his chicken wing leg was broken taking a pop in camp. He made the most of his rookie year by learning absolutely nothing about NFL football. By all appearances, this kid seemed like he figured he was so taletned naturally that he could just wing it, like in a game of back yard football. In all his time he never figured out just what he was supposed to do after the snap, or what was going on. The worst thing to happen to him was some team convincing him he was a first round talent. He was simply awful. His only claim to fame was throwing the ball as hard as he could as he was getting sacked and having Lee Evans run under the ball and make the catch. Fitz is an intelligent player who's arm betrayed him. I think he saved the offense for most of Chan's first year and a half of bad play calling. He is still the only tough player on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Peer pressure doesnt mean a hill of beans to me, so i dont care what the "consensus" thinks. Most of my best investments have been made under the cloud of everyone telling me I was crazy. The "numbers" in favor of Fitz are easily explained going from a defensive-minded, conservative, and offensively-inept HC like Jauron to the mirror opposite in Gailey. I have a feeling you hear that a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Losman is a textbook example of what not to do when drafting a first round QB. 99 times out of 100, it's a mistake to take the guy with the shiny physical tools, who's never shown good accuracy or a decent grasp of the mental side of the game. Teams should err on the side of taking the guy who's a little more physically limited, but who makes up for that with great accuracy and great mental abilities. Joe Montana lasted until the third round, largely because of his lack of arm strength. I think they all suck and, honestly, I'd take Fitz over the other two. Those of you who know my "Fitz" history understand that's not an easy thing to say. However, in regards to the quote above, I agree 100%. For example, I watched a lot of Landry Jones this season and WANTED him to be good. He has some physical tools, but the intangibles drop through the floor for me. I never saw him firing up his teammates, or leading in a way I'd expect a QB to lead. The Losman pick was pure panic and when you are choosing the most important position on your team for potentially the next decade, you had better do your homework and make sure that guy has intangibles through the roof. If you can't do that, then you pick someone else that can contribute right away in an area of weakness. I hate that the Bills FO always "outsmarts" everybody with picks like Losman, McGahee and the infamous-you-don't-hear-enough-of-this-disaster John McCargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Boy...this thread just shows us how bad we actually were over the years. pathetic. I guess Fitz was the best of the three...but that isn't saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Why do I get the feeling the purpose behind this thread was to eventually get to "if he hadn't been injured, Trent would have been a good QB"? Reliving the terrible play of these guys, is like repeatedly watching the porn tapes you found of your ex-wife with various deliverymen. Let's move on... What's that like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 What's that like? It's like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Fitzpatrick is by far the better of the 3. Not even debatable. That's how bad Losman and Edwards were I honestly don't think Losman and Edwards deserve to be in any list with Fitzpatrick--that's how bad they were. If anyone thinks that they were actually better than Fitz, then that person took enough drugs to successfully black out during the entire Dick Jauron era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Fitz went to Harvard. Did you guys know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Game Game Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Y/A Y/G W 1 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2009 2012 7-250 BUF NFL 55 52 1041 1742 59.8% 11654 80 64 79.8 97 6.69 211.9 19 2 J.P. Losman 2005 2008 1-22 BUF NFL 38 33 555 936 59.3% 6179 33 33 76.1 102 6.60 162.6 10 3 Trent Edwards 2007 2010 3-92 BUF NFL 34 32 535 878 60.9% 5739 25 27 76.8 65 6.54 168.8 14 4 Kelly Holcomb 2005 2005 BUF NFL 10 8 155 230 67.4% 1509 10 8 85.6 17 6.56 150.9 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Game Game Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Y/A Y/G W 1 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2009 2012 7-250 BUF NFL 55 52 1041 1742 59.8% 11654 80 64 79.8 97 6.69 211.9 19 2 J.P. Losman 2005 2008 1-22 BUF NFL 38 33 555 936 59.3% 6179 33 33 76.1 102 6.60 162.6 10 3 Trent Edwards 2007 2010 3-92 BUF NFL 34 32 535 878 60.9% 5739 25 27 76.8 65 6.54 168.8 14 4 Kelly Holcomb 2005 2005 BUF NFL 10 8 155 230 67.4% 1509 10 8 85.6 17 6.56 150.9 4 Good post. Even if the formatting makes my eyes blur! The first stat I looked for in all that mess was yards per attempt. YPA was as follows: Ryan Fitzpatrick: 6.7 JP Losman: 6.6 Kelly Holcomb: 6.6 Trent Edwards: 6.5 That's a very narrow range. Also, a QB's YPA isn't affected by just his own play only--his supporting cast matters too. Kelly Holcomb had perhaps the worst supporting cast of the guys on that list, especially along the OL. There was one game in which the defense had shut down the Bills' running game, and the offensive line provided no pass protection whatsoever. Add to that the fact that the WRs had a lot of drops that day. The offense still put up 17 points, which to me indicates that the QB may have been the only offensive player who showed up that day. Additionally, Holcomb came very close to leading the Bills to victory over the Patriots, in Foxboro, back when New England still had a good defense. But, for that one game only, the Patriots just so happened to receive some help from the refs. What should have been a first and ten was turned into fourth and long, based on a ticky tack offensive pass interference call on Eric Moulds. Then on that fourth and long play, the Bills were out-coached. Rookie Roscoe Parrish was supposed to be the primary target, but the Patriots shifted to double coverage of Parrish just before the snap. Throwing it to Parrish would have been the wrong decision. Doing what Holcomb did--throwing it to Moulds well short of the first down marker--was also the wrong decision. Had Joe Montana been playing, he probably would have stood in the pocket, waited until Sam Gash came open, and would have thrown it to Gash. Obviously, Holcomb fell short of the Montana standard, both on that play and others. But he still may have been better than the other guys on the list, including Fitzpatrick. Holcomb was considerably more accurate than Fitzpatrick; and like Fitzpatrick he was good at getting rid of the ball quickly and making the OL look better than it actually was. On the other hand, Holcomb's arm was even weaker than Fitz's, and Fitz's decision-making may be slightly better than Holcomb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Game Game Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Pass Rk Player From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Sk Y/A Y/G W 1 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2009 2012 7-250 BUF NFL 55 52 1041 1742 59.8% 11654 80 64 79.8 97 6.69 211.9 19 2 J.P. Losman 2005 2008 1-22 BUF NFL 38 33 555 936 59.3% 6179 33 33 76.1 102 6.60 162.6 10 3 Trent Edwards 2007 2010 3-92 BUF NFL 34 32 535 878 60.9% 5739 25 27 76.8 65 6.54 168.8 14 4 Kelly Holcomb 2005 2005 BUF NFL 10 8 155 230 67.4% 1509 10 8 85.6 17 6.56 150.9 4 This is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Fitz went to Harvard. Did you guys know that? I believe he's the only NFL quarterback to play in actual games wearing his wedding ring. Also the steakhouse thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I believe he's the only NFL quarterback to play in actual games wearing his wedding ring. Also the steakhouse thing... You forgot about David Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You forgot about David Carr. Carr went to Harvard too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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