Donte Whitner 'drafted into the wrong system' and 'a bad s

[RuntheDamnBall]

That's because he had nothing to compare it to. Now he is with a well run organization...

 

He wanted to stay, but got even more money somewhere else. He obviously made enough of a name for himself in Buffalo to get even more money somewhere else. Who has the sour grapes, you or him?

NOT TRUE. The 49ers offered him less than the Bills. I don't give a f--- about Donte Whitner. He is the one who has to keep alluding to the myriad wrongs perpetrated by the team that made him a rich man.

[Prickly Pete]

NOT TRUE. The 49ers offered him less than the Bills. I don't give a f--- about Donte Whitner. He is te one who has to keep alluding to the myriad wrongs perpetrated by the team that made him a rich man.

 

Any team would have made him a rich man. I may not be right about how his contract negotiations unfolded, but he was gonna be a rich man, regardless. He owes the Bills nothing, and really you are giving the Bills more credit than they are due. You are "defending the honor" of a franchise that has been a joke for many years now.

 

Whitner is right.

[WinBeforeYouLeave]

Pro bowl is voted on by your peers....players and coaches so most players believe it is more accurate and more credible than being voted All Pro by a bunch or writers. Arguments either way.

Anyways, Whitner is a very good player. In the end he and Byrd would have made a very nice tandem for years. Players in the league who game plan against him seem to think he is a good player....I'd take that endorsement a lot more than people on a chatroom who don't play against him every week or watch him play.

 

Yes, the Bills should have taken Ngata with that pick but it does NOT mean Whitner is not a good player. He will be a starter in the league for 10 years which makes it a VERY good pick.

 

Ironic how Marv oversaw two drafts that people blasted yet have produced 3 pro bowlers. I think it is more an indictment of turning over coaches and staffs every three years who have a different way they want to run things.

 

Good for Donte. He was always nice downtown when seen and friendly and seemed like a decent enough guy. He was a leader and cared a lot about the team and how we did....so I will take that anyday.

Never thought about Marv's tenure that way. Well put.

[NewEra]

Delusions of grandeur...He is an average safety at best. He is borderline awful in coverage and is no where near the hitter that Pollard is.

 

He's no where near the hitter Pollard is? If he doesn't hit as hard as pollard, he's very close. It's truly the only thing he does well. He completely lays the lumber and is definitely one of the hardest hitting safety's on the nfl. He's still bad in coverage and good vs the run, but susceptible to taking bad angles at times. I watch every niner game. He's not a great safety, but he hits HARD.

[NoSaint]

 

NOT TRUE. The 49ers offered him less than the Bills. I don't give a f--- about Donte Whitner. He is the one who has to keep alluding to the myriad wrongs perpetrated by the team that made him a rich man.

 

I wish he'd say it less often and less publicly but his comments towards what happened in buffalo are likely far more accurate than the average comments towards him on here.

[PromoTheRobot]

What lil'Donte is saying is he needs to play with a team of all-pros. He's not a difference maker. He has to be surrounded by them.

 

PTR

[Malazan]

Any team would have made him a rich man. I may not be right about how his contract negotiations unfolded, but he was gonna be a rich man, regardless. He owes the Bills nothing, and really you are giving the Bills more credit than they are due. You are "defending the honor" of a franchise that has been a joke for many years now.

 

Whitner is right.

 

You're trying to hogtie the Bills being bad to support your argument which is wrong. You have been given multiple references to you being wrong, but for some reason keep making different arguments and somehow pretending you were right.

 

Donte got less money than the Bills initially offered him to stay. He was already wealthy from his rookie contract.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Any team would have made him a rich man. I may not be right about how his contract negotiations unfolded, but he was gonna be a rich man, regardless. He owes the Bills nothing, and really you are giving the Bills more credit than they are due. You are "defending the honor" of a franchise that has been a joke for many years now.

 

Whitner is right.

The difference between #8 and #20, or #8 and the second round, pre-rookie salary cap, is vast. I stand by my statement. No other team was drafting him at #8 or moving up to do so.

 

I am not defending the honor of the Bills because I think they were idiots for drafting this guy to begin with with greater needs on the board. He doesn't owe the Bills anything, but to badmouth a franchise that first made him a top ten pick, then offered him more money than he ended up taking on the open market is bad form at best. Did they jerk the guy around? Did they lowball him? If so, then he appears to have signed with a team that did worse. Luckily for him and for them, they hired a coach who knew what he was doing.

 

If you're Whitner, just be gracious, say, "I wish it had worked out in Buffalo, some good players and friends left there, I've moved on..." and leave it at that.

 

This is the same Whitner who told Bengals fans he'd signed with them on Twitter then signed with SF, who made brash guarantees while with the Bills... He can play safety at an average level and draws unneeded attention with his mouth.

[Dibs]

NOT TRUE. The 49ers offered him less than the Bills.....

 

I find this article very interesting. I'd still like to know if it was the Bills who closed the door on him or if his pride stopped him coming back for the better deal....but....

The article shows that the Bills FO were doing the smart and wise thing.....trying to re-sign a good starter calibre player that they had drafted. (Please not I did not call him great. He was/is merely good/decent.....and better than what we were left with).

 

Up until now I assumed we had acted like so many times in the past and simply let a player of starter calibre leave because we were cheap(not willing to spend veteran money)....and stupid(assumed we could easily find an equal or better replacement in the draft).

 

 

I'm sure you all hold the frustration that I have had over the last 15 years in seeing a Bills team with many sub-par starters and no stars continually let solid players hit the end of their rookie contracts and walk.

 

It seems to me that Nix has finally put a stop to that nonsense.....fingers crossed.

[Big Turk]

Out of 58 safeties that played at least 50% of their teams snaps on defense, Byrd was rated 2nd, Wilson 8th, Whitner 34th...

 

Whitner WAS a sub par starter that we let walk, not a star, not sure what there was to be frustrated with...

 

Nuff said.

Edited January 30, 2013 by matter2003

[Dibs]

Out of 58 safeties that played at least 50% of their teams snaps on defense, Byrd was rated 2nd, Wilson 8th, Whitner 34th...

 

Nuff said.

No....not nuff said.

 

I'm not knocking Wilson here....just explaining why he was rated so high.....

 

Wilson was rated 8th because of the extremely high number of tackles he had(104, 3rd for Safeties in league).

He had an extremely high number of tackles because our LB corp didn't.

 

 

Edit: Perhaps Whitner was ranked lower because he only had 83 tackles this season(behind an all pro LB corp)....in 2010 with Bills he had 140 tackles!

Edited January 30, 2013 by Dibs

[paupmvp1995]

Delusions of grandeur...He is an average safety at best. He is borderline awful in coverage and is no where near the hitter that Pollard is.

I totally agree. Whitner was marginal at best for the Bills. And he is not much better for the Niners especially in coverage. We certainly do not miss him. Byrd is a much more talented player. And George Wilson in his prime was better as well. I gag when I think of us taking him w the 8th pick in the draft. Look at these top picks from 2003-2009: McGahee-2003, Lee Evans and traded up for JP Losman in 2004, No 1st or 2nd round pick in 2005-took Parrish in the 3rd round. Whitner and traded up for McCargo in2006, Marshawn and traded up for Poz in 2007, Mckelvin in 2008, Maybin and Wood in 2009. Is it any wonder we have sucked for so long with these types of picks?!!

[Big Turk]

 

No....not nuff said.

 

I'm not knocking Wilson here....just explaining why he was rated so high.....

 

Wilson was rated 8th because of the extremely high number of tackles he had(104, 3rd for Safeties in league).

He had an extremely high number of tackles because our LB corp didn't.

 

 

Edit: Perhaps Whitner was ranked lower because he only had 83 tackles this season(behind an all pro LB corp)....in 2010 with Bills he had 140 tackles!

 

No tackles as a stat dont factor into the rankings..

things like wilson allowing a 5th best compleyoon percentage of 54.3% on targeted passes against him versus Whitner's 2nd worst in the NFL 79.8% of passes completed agaimst him does...

[Mango]

 

Whitner left Buffalo with five interceptions, 19 breakups, 1.5 sacks, three forced fumbles and one recovery in 69 games.

 

In 31 regular-season games for San Francisco he has three interceptions, 15 pass breakups, three forced fumbles and four recoveries.

 

http://blogs.buffalo...-situation.html

 

always thought he was a good player. wish he was still here

 

IN 62 Games Byrd has 3 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles, 18 Interceptions, 27 Defended Passes, and 2 Touchdowns. Byrd's stat line is flat out better the Donte's and he has played 2/3 the games. By drafting Best Player Availalable, Byrd is still a good pick. The Bills only lost by not getting any (or what little) return on Donte. You could make the argument that drafting him in the first place was the mistake. The best thing for Donte and Buffalo was that he left. Case Closed

[RuntheDamnBall]

IN 62 Games Byrd has 3 Sacks, 10 Forced Fumbles, 18 Interceptions, 27 Defended Passes, and 2 Touchdowns. Byrd's stat line is flat out better the Donte's and he has played 2/3 the games. By drafting Best Player Availalable, Byrd is still a good pick. The Bills only lost by not getting any (or what little) return on Donte. You could make the argument that drafting him in the first place was the mistake. The best thing for Donte and Buffalo was that he left. Case Closed

To be fair, one is a free safety, the other is a strong safety (not saying I don't think Byrd is better, just saying you might evaluate the two differently).

[Section242]

Didn't he back out of a deal with the Bengals? He just can't cover guys.

[Dibs]

No tackles as a stat dont factor into the rankings..

things like wilson allowing a 5th best compleyoon percentage of 54.3% on targeted passes against him versus Whitner's 2nd worst in the NFL 79.8% of passes completed agaimst him does...

 

Are you sure?

They both had 5 PDef....but Whitner also had 1 INT(for TD), 2 FF, 1 FR.....while Wilson had none.

The ranking system you are quoting seems extremely weighted towards completion percentages considering it is suppose to be ranking Safeties.

 

Who were the top 7?

Edited January 30, 2013 by Dibs

[Prickly Pete]

You're trying to hogtie the Bills being bad to support your argument which is wrong. You have been given multiple references to you being wrong, but for some reason keep making different arguments and somehow pretending you were right.

 

Donte got less money than the Bills initially offered him to stay. He was already wealthy from his rookie contract.

 

I was only wrong that he left for more money.

 

Not wrong about Whitner not oweing them anything.

Not wrong about the fact that he was going to be very wealthy regardless (any first round pick=$$$, a starter up for a 2nd contract=$$$$$$ ).

And most importantly, not wrong about him having an accurate assessment of the Bill organization.

[Big Turk]

Are you sure?

They both had 5 PDef....but Whitner also had 1 INT(for TD), 2 FF, 1 FR.....while Wilson had none.

The ranking system you are quoting seems extremely weighted towards completion percentages considering it is suppose to be ranking Safeties.

 

Who were the top 7?

 

No, the rankings are basically compiled by assigning a grade to each player on every play. The grading system is explained in detail here:

 

http://www.profootba.../about/grading/

 

Safeties are graded based on Pass Rush, Coverage, Run Defense and Penalties, the same as any other defensive player. The total of these grades equals their overall grade for the player.

 

Safeties 1-7:Overall/Pass Rush/Coverage/Run D/Penalty

1) Eric Weddle(SD) +27.7/+1.7/+14.9/+9.5/+1.6

2) Jairus Byrd(BUF) +23.7/-0.5/+20.0/+3.6/+0.6

3) Reshad Jones(MIA) +22.1/-0.1/+14.1/+7.0/+1.1

4) Kerry Rhodes(ARI) +16.0/-0.2/+8.6/+5.8/+1.8

5) Quintin Mikell(STL) +15.3/+8.0/-1.9/+8.5/+0.7

6) TJ Ward(CLE) +14.9/-0.2/+5.3/+11.1/-1.3

7) Reggie Nelson(CIN) +13.7/-1.0/+12.1/+1.2/+1.4

8) George Wilson(BUF) +12.7/+0.8/+7.4/+3.6/+0.6

34) Donte Whitner(SF) -1.8/-0.4/-2.5/-0.8/+1.9

 

According to PFF, Whitner's biggest contribution to the 49ers this year is that he didn't get flagged for penalties much, in fact he receievd the NFL's highest grade for safeties in this category...in every other area, he was below average(average is 0). That's enough for me. Whitner also allowed the 2nd highest QB rating in the NFL by a safety on passes thrown at him, with a 128.5 QB rating against, including an NFL worst 8 TD passes, but I guess some can cling to this notion he is some top flight safety...the facts state otherwise pretty strongly...and I didn't even get into the more in depth ones in which he is also much worse than either Wilson or Byrd...

Edited January 30, 2013 by matter2003

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

 

I was only wrong that he left for more money.

 

Not wrong about Whitner not oweing them anything.

Not wrong about the fact that he was going to be very wealthy regardless (any first round pick=$$$, a starter up for a 2nd contract=$$$$$$ ).

And most importantly, not wrong about him having an accurate assessment of the Bill organization.

Donte was only going to be picked at #8 by the Bills. Even if you buy that there was a taker at #14, 6 slots pre-rookie cap = the Bills giving him more than anyone else would have. And despite the many ways in which the Bills wronged Donte Whitner, they offered him the most money a second time. Whitner doesn't owe them anything but if he were less of a douche, we would simply be talking about what a drag it was to again lose a solid starter. His conduct makes that of the Bills somehow look more elegant. If he wants to fight a needless PR war against his former employer, he sure isn't any better at it than he is at covering a TE.