JPS Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) It's not a Kool Aid wave...No need for drama here...They (these Coaches) have done nothing in Buffalo yet...You'll be hard pressed to find someone more negative on this Organization than I've been over the past decade...But I do like the direction I'm seeing if for nothing more than the fact that it's a different approach...Not saying it's right or wrong yet...There is zero evidence one way or the other... I completely agree with your statement. The Kool Aid to me is painting the Bills FO as now "different" and acting like the Bills have scored big time with their OC and DC and now Buffalo is something more than an afterthought. I do like that it's different. But only because these guys don't have a negative track record (yet) and might surprise. But with Magoo picking our second rate QB prospects and more cornerbacks, we're likely in for a long year. Edited January 14, 2013 by JPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Just for kicks here were the Rams ST numbers in Bobby April's last year with them. Punt Coverage ranked 30th in the NFL Punt Return Average ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Coverage ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Return Average ranked 32nd in the NFL He worked out ok. ST is as much about your team's depth as anything else. McKelvin doesn't suddenly become any less great a PR because there's a new coach. right, but we have some reasons for concern.... mckelvin isnt the sharpest tool out there, and crossmans returners at times looked woefully underprepared with regards to situational awareness last year. our coverage wasnt all that great, and neither was his. so essentially we are hoping that we are considerably more talented than them if truly they had a better coach, and as someone else pointed out - they still looked like a tire fire by comparison. we will see. this ones very hard to defend as a big victory, and im getting the impression that framing it as him asking out of his contract to join us is at best lying by omitting the fact that they had been interviewing his replacement in the meantime. Edited January 14, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 News out of Detroit is this is great as it gets Crossman out of their town. I am looking at this ocaching staff and thinking OMG what a mess. In two years we will have Marrone aqs HC and he will be told to fire all or most of his coaches, the following year, we will fire Marrone and go through this crap all over again. What a flippin mess and the ink isn't dry on Marrone's contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Detroit`s ST`s were horrible last year. Absolutely brutal! Not overly happy about this one. Maybe it was a case of staffing in Detroit, but he has the most to prove out of the hirings so far. He has an NFL track record with some poor results. I'm not impressed with this either. This one screams of the "hire your friends" mentality. Looks like a good share of the boys from Syracuse are coming on board. 15th in 2010 to 31st in 2011, and not so hot this year? Sounds like an excellent hire and no bias from friendship involved at all <sarcasm> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Danny Crossman comments on joining Bills Have you maintained a relationship with Doug Marrone through the years? You both played together in the World League and coached together in college. “Doug and I have known each other for the last 25 years or so. After playing together, we had the opportunity to coach together twice before in college football and compete against each other in the NFL. We have maintained a very close relationship over the years.” Doug Marrone comments on Crossman What attributes and qualities will Crossman bring to the position? “The thing I am excited about for what Danny will bring to our special teams is a system that plays to our players’ strengths-something that we have obviously talked about. For our players, we are going to be able to evaluate what their strengths are and be able to put them in the best position possible for us to win.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 News out of Detroit is this is great as it gets Crossman out of their town. I am looking at this ocaching staff and thinking OMG what a mess. In two years we will have Marrone aqs HC and he will be told to fire all or most of his coaches, the following year, we will fire Marrone and go through this crap all over again. What a flippin mess and the ink isn't dry on Marrone's contract. Did they use some sort of special pen or paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just for kicks here were the Rams ST numbers in Bobby April's last year with them. Punt Coverage ranked 30th in the NFL Punt Return Average ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Coverage ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Return Average ranked 32nd in the NFL He worked out ok. ST is as much about your team's depth as anything else. McKelvin doesn't suddenly become any less great a PR because there's a new coach. Good research to support your case. You've made me a feel a little better about this announcement. I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just for kicks here were the Rams ST numbers in Bobby April's last year with them. Punt Coverage ranked 30th in the NFL Punt Return Average ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Coverage ranked 31st in the NFL Kickoff Return Average ranked 32nd in the NFL He worked out ok. ST is as much about your team's depth as anything else. McKelvin doesn't suddenly become any less great a PR because there's a new coach. Dammit! What am I going to do with all these pitchforks and torches I just bought for the big rampage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 According to the Football Outsiders rankings, the Eagles ST have gotten worse each year since Bobby April has been there. http://www.footballo...tats/teamst2010 Also according to these rankings, while Detroit ST was bad last year, he has had some very good ST in both Carolina and Detroit under his leadership - up and down generally. Crossman's ranks: 2005 (CAR): 5th overall/10th weighted 2006 (CAR): 24th/23rd 2007 (CAR): 30th/28th 2008 (CAR): 10th/8th 2009 (CAR): 29th/25th 2010 (DET): 11th/15th 2011 (DET): 29th/31st 2012 (DET): 30th/23rd Pros: Has real NFL experience in the job he's doing for us. Has had some success in his position. Cons: Has had more failure than success. Has presided over some really awful units.. All in all, I have no problems with replacing DeHaven -- our coverage units were bad last year, the punters and kickers didn't seem to be handled well, and I don't give the ST coach much credit for a dynamic returner like McKelvin. McKelvin was an awesome KR/PR in college and very good with the Bills prior to DeHaven. I don't know that Crossman will do any better, but at least he's had a couple good seasons. Maybe he's just been laden with really bad talent on the special teams units? Don't like this hire, but I don't hate it either. Assuming Bobby April's still pissed at the Bills, I don't know who's available who would be a better candidate. I'd also like to point out that Marrone's SU teams were consistently awful on special teams. Just terrible. Won't necessarily translate to the NFL, but it is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Crossman's ranks: 2005 (CAR): 5th overall/10th weighted 2006 (CAR): 24th/23rd 2007 (CAR): 30th/28th 2008 (CAR): 10th/8th 2009 (CAR): 29th/25th 2010 (DET): 11th/15th 2011 (DET): 29th/31st 2012 (DET): 30th/23rd Pros: Has real NFL experience in the job he's doing for us. Has had some success in his position. Cons: Has had more failure than success. Has presided over some really awful units.. All in all, I have no problems with replacing DeHaven -- our coverage units were bad last year, the punters and kickers didn't seem to be handled well, and I don't give the ST coach much credit for a dynamic returner like McKelvin. McKelvin was an awesome KR/PR in college and very good with the Bills prior to DeHaven. I don't know that Crossman will do any better, but at least he's had a couple good seasons. Maybe he's just been laden with really bad talent on the special teams units? Don't like this hire, but I don't hate it either. Assuming Bobby April's still pissed at the Bills, I don't know who's available who would be a better candidate. I'd also like to point out that Marrone's SU teams were consistently awful on special teams. Just terrible. Won't necessarily translate to the NFL, but it is relevant. pro: good first years con: other than one year... his teams have generally declined quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 From CBC Sports, October 2... --Special teams coordinator Danny Crossman's performance has come under fire after Detroit became the first NFL team since at least 1940 (STATS LLC does not have records predating that year) to allow both a punt return and kick return for a touchdown in consecutive weeks. Running back Stefan Logan, whose role with the Lions centers around special teams, says players believe Crossman is still the right man to coach the unit. "Everybody's going to say what they're going to say about him, but he's our coach," Logan said. "We back him 100 percent." Logan did admit that there could be changes to the kick coverage lineup. "We'll see when we look at the depth chart Tuesday if they move some guys around," he said. "I'm sure coaches are going to make some corrections." Schwartz said after Sunday's game that replacing Crossman was not a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I just see it as they want to be employed. Did Pettine want to work for Marrone, or just get away from Rex? I wish we had kept DeHaven over Crossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's in My Blood Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 that says a lot about Detroit if he wanted out of his contract. It also says a lot in that guys want to work for Marrone and this organization. Finely, for the first time in a long time I feel like we are a top tier destination. Show me the baby. I'll believe we are a top tier team when we field a top tier team, not a minute before. btw....why are your off season additions in your signature colored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 From CBC Sports, October 2... --Special teams coordinator Danny Crossman's performance has come under fire after Detroit became the first NFL team since at least 1940 (STATS LLC does not have records predating that year) to allow both a punt return and kick return for a touchdown in consecutive weeks. Running back Stefan Logan, whose role with the Lions centers around special teams, says players believe Crossman is still the right man to coach the unit. "Everybody's going to say what they're going to say about him, but he's our coach," Logan said. "We back him 100 percent." Logan did admit that there could be changes to the kick coverage lineup. "We'll see when we look at the depth chart Tuesday if they move some guys around," he said. "I'm sure coaches are going to make some corrections." Schwartz said after Sunday's game that replacing Crossman was not a consideration. That can't be right. Both a punt return AND a kickoff return in successive weeks???? Good gawd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Special teams is a really hard area to judge on a football team just by looking at the rankings. Every team puts a different emphasis on it and some are reluctant to put their best players on ST. Hell for all we know Caldwell might have cut the ST reps in half this year. Besides, last time we were even close to the playoffs Wade had his buddy Ronnie coaching. Good point in post 27. The reason the Bills special teams under Levy were good were for two reasons: He was a former special teams coach and placed a greater emphasis on it than many other coaches AND he had a very talented roster. These are probably the two biggest factors in special teams success. 1) How much time the head coach gives the special teams coach for practices and meetings and 2) how many starters are allowed to play special teams and how many players are on the roster because of their special teams prowess. He's coached ST in the NFL for the past 11 years and his record looks ok, on paper--- but I wonder if any ST coach's record would balance out over that time span? Despite the ST tire fire in Detroit for some of this past year, we could do better, we could do worse. http://www.buffalobi...9b-670a5b59a1f8 During Crossman’s tenure with Detroit from 2010-12, S John Wendling tied for the NFL-lead with 51 special teams tackles. In his first year with the Lions in 2010, the kick return unit was the third-most improved in the League with an average 3.5 more yards per return than in 2009. Returner Stefan Logan posted the fifth-best punt return average in the NFL (12.1). Detroit also had the NFL’s 10th-most significant improvement in punt return average in 2010 – a jump from an 8.8 punt return average in 2009 to 12.1 yards per punt return in 2010. ... The Panthers ranked third in the NFL in 2008 with an opponent average drive start after kickoffs (24.7) and were one of three teams that did not allow an opponent to start a drive following a kickoff past the 50-yard line. Carolina posted a league-best 30 touchbacks, 33.7 touchback percentage and ninth with an opponent kickoff return average (21.9). In his first year as a special teams coordinator in 2005, Crossman’s unit ranked among the best in the NFL. The Panthers finished ninth in the Dallas Morning News special teams ratings which were highlighted with a second place finish in punt coverage and seventh in kickoff coverage. Probably no one who's posted on this have any idea how good a coach Crossman is, or for that matter DeHaven or April. In a recent thread, lots of people were calling for DeHaven's head. This in spite of the fact that no one seemed to have any idea how his teams actually stack up statistically. I made the comment at the time that the Dallas Morning News' special teams rankings (measuring 22 different areas) are typically published this time of year. Did Pettine want to work for Marrone, or just get away from Rex? I wish we had kept DeHaven over Crossman. Funny how what some percieve as a bad hire has some people wishing the Bills had maintained the status quo. I betcha some of these people wanted to see DeHaven move on. Be careful what you wish for I guess. As for April, it's been posted before but not in this thread: He was passed over for interim coach and passed over to succeed Jauron. There's a possibility if not a probability that he had zero interest in returning to Buffalo. The guy I would have liked to see the Bills at least interview is Alan Lowry who has a long history of above average special teams at Tennessee. He is the author of "Home Run Throwback" and was fired last week by the Titans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hansen Forever Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Detroit`s ST`s were horrible last year. Absolutely brutal! Not overly happy about this one. Maybe it was a case of staffing in Detroit, but he has the most to prove out of the hirings so far. He has an NFL track record with some poor results. Out of the frying pan and into the hell fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Out of the frying pan and into the hell fire. Like I said, be careful what you wish for (not you personally). I'm thinking DeHaven was far from a bad special teams coach. I'd have been fine had he stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 well well. I guess we shall find out in time, what kind of soup is in the kitchen. Still many more ingredients yet to add before game day. I suggest patience , gentle folk. But we do have a new sheriff in town. Withoutadoubt absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hopefully Marrone is not too biased towards his cronies. His staff will make or break him. Time will tell if he is making sound choices. This does not sound like an upgrade. I hope he is better than 30th in the league like he was this year. Smells like cronyism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 But with Magoo picking our second rate QB prospects and more cornerbacks, we're likely in for a long year. Buddy is a WHOLE different story...I'll pack his bags and drive him down-south myself if they'll get rid of that bum for good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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