Noodlearm Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Not only is Fletcher better, Poz would start for us and be an improvement now. Whitner also made the pro bowl. Why is it whenever anybodys contract is up, he's not worth the money. Wake up! That's why they draft all these running backs, when we have so many other needs. They know they can't resign them in a competitive market. If we kept some of the players they let walk we'd have a playoff team by now (of course I'm assuming quality coaching.... never mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvanvol Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 It is very sad that two linebackers closer to 40 who played on this team ten years ago would easily be starters on this squad. With Spikes and Fletcher our defense would be a lot better than it is now. Not only is Fletcher better, Poz would start for us and be an improvement now. Whitner also made the pro bowl. Why is it whenever anybodys contract is up, he's not worth the money. Wake up! That's why they draft all these running backs, when we have so many other needs. They know they can't resign them in a competitive market. If we kept some of the players they let walk we'd have a playoff team by now (of course I'm assuming quality coaching.... never mind). Whitner does not belong in this argument. He was average when he was here but he really came into his own in the 49ers scheme and it allowed him to become a pro bowl safety. He did not play like that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Agree, Fletcher, Poz, Whitner, Bills would be a lot better defense. We need Teo and resign Byrd. Stop letting good players walk FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Tell me about it. Every time I watch the Skins I get pissed and the Dumb A$$ that let him go Funny thing is, a friend of mine....a Rams fan....thinks pretty much the same thing....but has done so for longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Fletcher was said to make too too many tackles downfield around here. The current LB's don't make tackles. Advantage LF(B). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 According to Football Outsiders, London Fletcher's final season with the Bills (2006) was one of the best performances by any defender in the past fifteen years or so: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/jj-watt-obliterates-record-defensive-defeats . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) According to Football Outsiders, London Fletcher's final season with the Bills (2006) was one of the best performances by any defender in the past fifteen years or so: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/jj-watt-obliterates-record-defensive-defeats . id be curious to see how flat that list gets if you extended it a few more spots. looked like it was leveling off quick. not to nail fletcher, i like his play a lot - frankly just a numbers/context curiousity on my own part. Edited January 2, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Fletcher was said to make too too many tackles downfield around here. The current LB's don't make tackles. Advantage LF(B). Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 id be curious to see how flat that list gets if you extended it a few more spots. looked like it was leveling off quick. not to nail fletcher, i like his play a lot That was Jauron's first year, and they improved from 24th in points allowed (2005) to 10th in points allowed. Fletcher had 4 INTs and 14 passes defensed that year (an extremely high number for a linebacker) plus his usual 100 plus tackles. He hasn't missed one game since he began in 1998. 15 straight years at the MLB position. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 We should have taken that 7th round flyer on Burfict like I wanted!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 That was Jauron's first year, and they improved from 24th in points allowed (2005) to 10th in points allowed. Fletcher had 4 INTs and 14 passes defensed that year (an extremely high number for a linebacker) plus his usual 100 plus tackles. He hasn't missed one game since he began in 1998. 15 straight years at the MLB position. Amazing. definitely - my brain just got to wondering what a normal season from a healthy guy looked like, how much range a single player might expect year to year etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I love when people bring up the downfield tackle argument...it is the funniest and stupidest argument I've heard. Yeah that label got attached to Poz too. Silly. He was just rated the team MVP for Jax. And Whitner made first team pro bowl, and there was Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, hell even Takeo Spikes is still productive in the middle. Not sure what the coaches didn't like in London. Just saw a thing on him where he has full authority to call all defensive plays on the field without approval from his DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 At one point you could have put together a team of former Bills players still in the league and crush the current Bills. I dont think you could now though because we havent had enough good players to let walk recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Yeah that label got attached to Poz too. Silly. He was just rated the team MVP for Jax. And Whitner made first team pro bowl, and there was Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, hell even Takeo Spikes is still productive in the middle. Not sure what the coaches didn't like in London. Just saw a thing on him where he has full authority to call all defensive plays on the field without approval from his DC. honest answer, i think with him (much like williams) it was handing another big contract to an over 30 player. we get upset when we give the money to those guys and they fade fast, but occasionally they last seemingly forever. i wouldnt have pegged an undersized linebacker to be just shy of the oldest defensive player in the league and an oversized DT to be the actual oldest and hold up near as well as either did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Exactly how much longer is a country mile vs. an urban or sub-urban mile? I've always wondered that. Is it kind like a New York minute vs. another kind of minute? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Exactly how much longer is a country mile vs. an urban or sub-urban mile? I've always wondered that. Is it kind like a New York minute vs. another kind of minute? GO BILLS!!! Travel across country in the 18th-19th century was more arduous than urban travel (e.g., roads) and hence a longer journey time and effort-wise. Hence the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Travel across country in the 18th-19th century was more arduous than urban travel (e.g., roads) and hence a longer journey time and effort-wise. Hence the term. I'm glad K-9 asked the question and I'm glad you answered it. Good answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I thought it was pretty clear at the time that letting Fletcher go was in part (mostly) because he was so vocal. I think he was fed up with the inept coaching and the performance of some of his fellow Bills. He was bad for morale, but he was right: we stunk. Yes, a large faction on TBD trashed him for an extended period going on and on about him tackling 5+ yards downfield. Given we were playing the Tampa 2 and he had responsibility for the deep middle third of the field, and that the majority of his tackles ere solo tackles (i.e. no one else on the defense got there) I never understod why our failures were pinned on him. I love Fletcher's passion. I think his longevity is in part due to him playing faster and harder than most of the other players he'd hit. Is it just me, or does Fletcher now look bigger and stronger than he did at the end of his Buffalo run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I thought it was pretty clear at the time that letting Fletcher go was in part (mostly) because he was so vocal. I think he was fed up with the inept coaching and the performance of some of his fellow Bills. He was bad for morale, but he was right: we stunk. Yes, a large faction on TBD trashed him for an extended period going on and on about him tackling 5+ yards downfield. Given we were playing the Tampa 2 and he had responsibility for the deep middle third of the field, and that the majority of his tackles ere solo tackles (i.e. no one else on the defense got there) I never understod why our failures were pinned on him. I love Fletcher's passion. I think his longevity is in part due to him playing faster and harder than most of the other players he'd hit. Is it just me, or does Fletcher now look bigger and stronger than he did at the end of his Buffalo run? Great take. As for your last sentence, I always described him as a fast-moving fire hydrant. It's possible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I thought it was pretty clear at the time that letting Fletcher go was in part (mostly) because he was so vocal. I think he was fed up with the inept coaching and the performance of some of his fellow Bills. He was bad for morale, but he was right: we stunk. Yes, a large faction on TBD trashed him for an extended period going on and on about him tackling 5+ yards downfield. Given we were playing the Tampa 2 and he had responsibility for the deep middle third of the field, and that the majority of his tackles ere solo tackles (i.e. no one else on the defense got there) I never understod why our failures were pinned on him. I love Fletcher's passion. I think his longevity is in part due to him playing faster and harder than most of the other players he'd hit. Is it just me, or does Fletcher now look bigger and stronger than he did at the end of his Buffalo run? The fact that Washington offered 5m per year (more substantial at the time) for 5 years for an undersized linebacker on the wrong side of 30 was really the biggest. If it was a 3 year deal, I think we'd have been more competitive. Also of note: I didn't connect the dots that he was a college teammate of josh mcdaniels (wonder child 30 year old head coach, current pats OC), and Brian polian(Stanford special teams coach, polian namesake) and nick caserio (pats dir of pro personal by about age 32/33) . Also just missing overlap with Chris polian (polian namesake, colts former GM), David Caldwell (One if the hottest names for GM interviews), Tom telesco(top dog with the colts), and Greg roman (harbaughs OC in San Fran). Depending on how outgoing seniors and incoming freshman/recruiting played out its possible little John Carroll had all those major football role players in one room for some meetings (might've missed by one year on a guy but don't want to double check). Odd tidbit for JCU in 1994. Edited January 3, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I love when people bring up the downfield tackle argument...it is the funniest and stupidest argument I've heard. Like most linebackers, when they have good defensive lineman in front of them and a good defensive scheme they play well. When they don't have those two things they suck. Our LBs suck mostly due to poor scheme IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Also of note: I didn't connect the dots that London was a college teammate of josh mcdaniels (wonder child 30 year old head coach, current pats OC), and Brian polian(Stanford special teams coach, polian namesake) and nick caserio (pats dir of pro personal by about age 32/33) . Also just missing overlap with Chris polian (polian namesake, colts former GM), David Caldwell (One if the hottest names for GM interviews), Tom telesco(top dog with the colts), and Greg roman (harbaughs OC in San Fran). Depending on how outgoing seniors and incoming freshman/recruiting played out its possible little John Carroll had all those major football role players in one room for some meetings (might've missed by one year on a guy but don't want to double check). Odd tidbit for JCU in 1994. That is some crazy stuff. Edited January 3, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 We should have taken that 7th round flyer on Burfict like I wanted!!!!! I was with you if you recall. To me, if this kid gets his personal act together he can be as good as Lewis, and I mean that! As to Fletcher, I laugh now because I was ridiculued for suggesting that we sign him for what would amount to a really good deal, when he was a FA last year. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 That is some crazy stuff. I think Chris polian was class of 93, but the rest all were likely present at the spring practices in 1994..... Arguably, Chris may have earned the least in his career... but as a whole that's a ton of success out of a random small football program and a group of guys sooooo young. All fast shooting up the organizational charts under some of the most respected organizations/bosses around. They report directly to bilicheck, harbaugh, dmitroff, david shaw, and telesco is atop the colts chart I believe. Wonder how great bill polians influence was in all of it, and how young he mentored these guys at? I know he signed several right out of college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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