Orton's Arm Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The argument has been made that yesterday's win helped the Bills. That it's better for them to develop the habit of winning, than it is for them to benefit from a mild improvement in draft position. I disagree with that perspective. I personally want to see Bills players develop good habits--especially those players in the Bills' long term future. I want Cordy Glenn to develop the habit of dominating the guy across from him, each and every week. I want Gilmore to develop the habit of shutting down whichever WR he's lined up against. If enough players like that develop those habits, then the team as a whole will start winning. One of the main reasons for the Bills win yesterday was that Fitzpatrick significantly outplayed Sanchez. Maybe that increases Fitzpatrick's confidence in himself, or his teammates' confidence in him. Maybe that reduces Sanchez's self-confidence. But so what? If, a few years ago, a guy like Losman or Trent Edwards had outplayed Chad Henne in a meaningless late season game, what good would it have done? Neither Edwards, Losman, Henne, Fitzpatrick, or Sanchez are long term answers at quarterback, and I think general managers around the league are smart enough to realize that. There's no need for our guy on that list to outplay the other team's guy on that list. Especially not when the only effect is to cost us draft position. The Bills have been down this road before. In 2001, the Bills played their hearts out to win a meaningless late season game against the Carolina Panthers. In the 2002 draft, the Panthers took Julius Peppers second overall. The Bills took Mike Williams fourth overall. In 2003, the Bills managed to win just enough games to keep themselves out of the top 10 of the 2004 draft. Ben Roethlisberger was taken shortly before the Bills picked, after TD abandoned his effort to trade up to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You cited two good examples, but I still think that a win to knock us down a peg in the draft order isn't worth getting our panties in a bunch over. I just find it hard to justify rooting for my team to lose so that we draft #6 instead of #8. Given the draft history, who's to say that the front office would have drafted the "right guy", anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As long as Chan was fired it doesn't matter. A new coach and coaching staff is all that matters right now. 2 draft spots is 2nd or lower down that list as far as meaning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As long as Chan was fired it doesn't matter. A new coach and coaching staff is all that matters right now. 2 draft spots is 2nd or lower down that list as far as meaning anything. Agreed. I will never complain about a Bills victory. Be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You cited two good examples, but I still think that a win to knock us down a peg in the draft order isn't worth getting our panties in a bunch over. I just find it hard to justify rooting for my team to lose so that we draft #6 instead of #8. Given the draft history, who's to say that the front office would have drafted the "right guy", anyway? Really? Look at last years draft. If the Bills lose that game to Denver last year they draft Luke Keuchly instead of Gilmore. Would you like that trade off now? Seems like winning didn't matter too much in the order anyway, but don't underestimate what one place in the order can mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The argument has been made that yesterday's win helped the Bills. That it's better for them to develop the habit of winning, than it is for them to benefit from a mild improvement in draft position. I disagree with that perspective. I personally want to see Bills players develop good habits--especially those players in the Bills' long term future. I want Cordy Glenn to develop the habit of dominating the guy across from him, each and every week. I want Gilmore to develop the habit of shutting down whichever WR he's lined up against. If enough players like that develop those habits, then the team as a whole will start winning. One of the main reasons for the Bills win yesterday was that Fitzpatrick significantly outplayed Sanchez. Maybe that increases Fitzpatrick's confidence in himself, or his teammates' confidence in him. Maybe that reduces Sanchez's self-confidence. But so what? If, a few years ago, a guy like Losman or Trent Edwards had outplayed Chad Henne in a meaningless late season game, what good would it have done? Neither Edwards, Losman, Henne, Fitzpatrick, or Sanchez are long term answers at quarterback, and I think general managers around the league are smart enough to realize that. There's no need for our guy on that list to outplay the other team's guy on that list. Especially not when the only effect is to cost us draft position. The Bills have been down this road before. In 2001, the Bills played their hearts out to win a meaningless late season game against the Carolina Panthers. In the 2002 draft, the Panthers took Julius Peppers second overall. The Bills took Mike Williams fourth overall. In 2003, the Bills managed to win just enough games to keep themselves out of the top 10 of the 2004 draft. Ben Roethlisberger was taken shortly before the Bills picked, after TD abandoned his effort to trade up to get him. I enjoyed the game yesterday. It was fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You play to win. Period. Of all the perennial bogus crap crusades that get recycled around here, this is the crappiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You play to win. Period. Of all the perennial bogus crap crusades that get recycled around here, this is the crappiest. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yesssssssssssssssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symbiant Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We knew we were going to fire Chan anyway.... and now we have to leapfrog Arizona for a QB. <smack forehead> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We knew we were going to fire Chan anyway.... and now we have to leapfrog Arizona for a QB. <smack forehead> That'd be a stretch at best...i.e. another wasted pick. Just win baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Really? Look at last years draft. If the Bills lose that game to Denver last year they draft Luke Keuchly instead of Gilmore. Would you like that trade off now? Seems like winning didn't matter too much in the order anyway, but don't underestimate what one place in the order can mean. I would take Kuechly over Gilmore if pressed, but it's still very early. I'm still happy with the Gilmore pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I would take Kuechly over Gilmore if pressed, but it's still very early. I'm still happy with the Gilmore pick. As am I. Kuechly is good and the Bills certainly could have used him, but with the way the defensive backfield regressed last year, Gilmore wasn't a bad pick, either. If they picked ahead of Carolina, I'd bet Buddy still would have gone with Gilmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As am I. Kuechly is good and the Bills certainly could have used him, but with the way the defensive backfield regressed last year, Gilmore wasn't a bad pick, either. If they picked ahead of Carolina, I'd bet Buddy still would have gone with Gilmore. Not according to some posters here who are close to the Bills organization. The word, FWIW, is that the Bills coveted Keuchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The argument has been made that yesterday's win helped the Bills. That it's better for them to develop the habit of winning, than it is for them to benefit from a mild improvement in draft position. I disagree with that perspective. I personally want to see Bills players develop good habits--especially those players in the Bills' long term future. I want Cordy Glenn to develop the habit of dominating the guy across from him, each and every week. I want Gilmore to develop the habit of shutting down whichever WR he's lined up against. If enough players like that develop those habits, then the team as a whole will start winning. One of the main reasons for the Bills win yesterday was that Fitzpatrick significantly outplayed Sanchez. Maybe that increases Fitzpatrick's confidence in himself, or his teammates' confidence in him. Maybe that reduces Sanchez's self-confidence. But so what? If, a few years ago, a guy like Losman or Trent Edwards had outplayed Chad Henne in a meaningless late season game, what good would it have done? Neither Edwards, Losman, Henne, Fitzpatrick, or Sanchez are long term answers at quarterback, and I think general managers around the league are smart enough to realize that. There's no need for our guy on that list to outplay the other team's guy on that list. Especially not when the only effect is to cost us draft position. The Bills have been down this road before. In 2001, the Bills played their hearts out to win a meaningless late season game against the Carolina Panthers. In the 2002 draft, the Panthers took Julius Peppers second overall. The Bills took Mike Williams fourth overall. In 2003, the Bills managed to win just enough games to keep themselves out of the top 10 of the 2004 draft. Ben Roethlisberger was taken shortly before the Bills picked, after TD abandoned his effort to trade up to get him. I hear what you are saying. For me, it was a pressure free game. I can't prove it, but I had zero doubt that the Bills would win. It enabled me to watch the game with a sense of calm. The score didn't reflect the actual game either imo. Aside from Spiller, SJ, and Brad Smith not too many players had exceptional games. Looking at the stats, it would seem as if the LBs played well. They really did not. Barnett is done. What do you think of this QB class? I like Glennon, but imo it will take him some time. I see him as possibly rising to the level of Schaub. Smith confuses me. I wasn't impressed by him at the bowl game, but he is almost certainly better than this. I liked Jones until I watched him this season. Maybe he is hurt, but he seems to have fallen way off. I am also going to look at LBs in this class, but I hope we can get some in free agency. Guards too, because I will be shocked if Levitre stays. Shocked and thrilled, because he might be the most under rated player in the NFL. PS: We need a safety. Happy New Year my friend!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I hear what you are saying. For me, it was a pressure free game. I can't prove it, but I had zero doubt that the Bills would win. It enabled me to watch the game with a sense of calm. The score didn't reflect the actual game either imo. Aside from Spiller, SJ, and Brad Smith not too many players had exceptional games. Looking at the stats, it would seem as if the LBs played well. They really did not. Barnett is done. What do you think of this QB class? I like Glennon, but imo it will take him some time. I see him as possibly rising to the level of Schaub. Smith confuses me. I wasn't impressed by him at the bowl game, but he is almost certainly better than this. I liked Jones until I watched him this season. Maybe he is hurt, but he seems to have fallen way off. I am also going to look at LBs in this class, but I hope we can get some in free agency. Guards too, because I will be shocked if Levitre stays. Shocked and thrilled, because he might be the most under rated player in the NFL. PS: We need a safety. Happy New Year my friend!!! I can agree with a lot of what you're saying. Barnett better pack his bags. However, don't close the book on Bradham and Sheppard. They are in no way pro bowlers but both of these guys have a nose from the ball and can add depth to a weak defense. We can all hope on Andy, but i fear u may be right. And as far as safety, if we really need one, let me know, I'm open all season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Not according to some posters here who are close to the Bills organization. The word, FWIW, is that the Bills coveted Keuchly. Right, they would have drafted Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Meaningless...but still fun to see. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I enjoyed the game yesterday. It was fun to watch. Me too. I sure did enjoy it a lot more than any of the 10 losses, plus it's been awhile since we beat the Jets, good game! And Gilmore > Keuchly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Me too. I sure did enjoy it a lot more than any of the 10 losses, plus it's been awhile since we beat the Jets, good game! And Gilmore > Keuchly Really? He will surely be the Defensive Rookie of the Year. Have you seen him play or are you just a homer? I like Gilmore but the Bills could have been so much better against the run with Keuchly. Not sure where you ate coming from with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 I hear what you are saying. For me, it was a pressure free game. I can't prove it, but I had zero doubt that the Bills would win. It enabled me to watch the game with a sense of calm. The score didn't reflect the actual game either imo. Aside from Spiller, SJ, and Brad Smith not too many players had exceptional games. Looking at the stats, it would seem as if the LBs played well. They really did not. Barnett is done. What do you think of this QB class? I like Glennon, but imo it will take him some time. I see him as possibly rising to the level of Schaub. Smith confuses me. I wasn't impressed by him at the bowl game, but he is almost certainly better than this. I liked Jones until I watched him this season. Maybe he is hurt, but he seems to have fallen way off. I am also going to look at LBs in this class, but I hope we can get some in free agency. Guards too, because I will be shocked if Levitre stays. Shocked and thrilled, because he might be the most under rated player in the NFL. PS: We need a safety. Happy New Year my friend!!! Good post. As you hinted at, much of that win had more to do with the Jets having a bad game than the Bills playing well. I strongly agree with what you've written about the importance of keeping Levitre. It's disappointing the Bills didn't get him locked up prior to the season. The more I learn about Glennon, the more I like him. He has the arm strength to make all the throws; so the swirling winds of Ralph Wilson Stadium shouldn't be an issue for him. I also like his throwing accuracy, and my sense is he has a high football I.Q. He isn't exactly the most mobile guy in the world, but guys like Tom Brady have proven you can succeed without being mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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