Dean Cain Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Regular Season Record (all-time) : 369-425-8 via profootball reference I'd put Ralph in the bottom 3rd. His lone saving grace being the mid 1960s, early to mid 1970s, & the golden era 1988-1999. Edited December 17, 2012 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 He was an architect of the AFL, not the NFL... and although he created, he has also massively failed. Finding Bill Polian was LUCK, not skill... we are still paying for that error. Wow, the Lions. Let's talk about the Lions, who has as bad an owner as we have right now. Are we to be grateful that we went to four Super Bowls and lost because we're not the Lions, or Browns, or the Falcons?!??!! SINCE 1999: Baltimore Ravens, Super Bowl Champions, OLD Cleveland Browns! Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. New Orleans Saints, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. Indianapolis Colts, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. St. Louis Rams, Super Bowl Champions. Average past. ALL were around since the merger... and where are we now?!?!?! STILL, yes STILL in the land of God awful. Spare me your "be thankful" routine, because I'm sick to death of it. You can also add that the Lions were in the playoffs just last season. The Falcons, despite the Michael Vick disaster, had a couple bad years and have since been in the playoffs almost every season. Not us though. Worst owner? Oh Yea. I'd argue Wilson is one of the better NFL owners. Hell, he was one of the architects of the NFL. Think about that. Guys like Dan Snyder and Jeffrey Lurie just come in with money and buy things. Wilson helped create. The team has always been in good financial position with little to no debt. The team has only known one city in its franchise history while the landscape of the NFL and the nation has changed, Buffalo *still* has a team. That's stability. He lended money to AFL teams that would have folded that wouldn't have even been around to be in the NFL. We've been sparred ridiculous stadium names. He oppossed that lousy old collective bargaining agreement. The state hasn't been held hostage for a new stadium or else. Despite having a mediocre to lousy product the last 13 years, the team has seen the Super Bowl. Four times. Some teams haven't even gotten to one. You all should be Lions fans. I'd take Ralph Wilson over Dan Snyder or the Bidwells or the Brown family any day of the week. Nobody is disputing what Wilson did 40-50 years ago, but what has he done lately? Nothing. It is sad, every time this discussion comes up, the old AFL days are brought up over and over. Yea we all watched the AFL series on NFL Network, we know the story, but dude, were you even alive then? I barely was and I just turned 50. I guess the Cubs are a great MLB organization, they won the World Series in something like 1904? Same argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 You can also add that the Lions were in the playoffs just last season. The Falcons, despite the Michael Vick disaster, had a couple bad years and have since been in the playoffs almost every season. Not us though. Worst owner? Oh Yea. Nobody is disputing what Wilson did 40-50 years ago, but what has he done lately? Nothing. It is sad, every time this discussion comes up, the old AFL days are brought up over and over. Yea we all watched the AFL series on NFL Network, we know the story, but dude, were you even alive then? I barely was and I just turned 50. I guess the Cubs are a great MLB organization, they won the World Series in something like 1904? Same argument. I was in the heat of the moment when I said Falcons... all those teams that improved themselves and won, and here we are, still arguing over QBs and trying to replace receivers... Lectures are not needed, for anyone with half a brain can see that we're becoming the Cubs- great analogy, for it is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Is Ralph the worst owner in the NFL? Is there an owner you would not trade him for? Perhaps right now he is, but certainly for this fan there are much worse owners I would like to often see in charge of my team from Jerry Jones to Dan Snyder. Jones is a blowhard who has a record of success but exercises his American ownership right to meddle often to interere with the f0otball pros. Snyder is as bad as Jones but with less suceess on the filed (until finally he has gotten a hot rookie this year who at least shows some potential for achievement. Likewise Mr. Ral[h's Bills gained unprecedented success in the 90s but he got rid of a talented actual football mind in Polian and has proved to be a mere rich guy with little football and persomal intellect since he fired Polian. The mistake here is that folks tend to mistake being a good businessman with being a good sportsman. Ralph is a great businessman but pretty much stinks as a sportsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 He was an architect of the AFL, not the NFL... and although he created, he has also massively failed. Finding Bill Polian was LUCK, not skill... we are still paying for that error. Wow, the Lions. Let's talk about the Lions, who has as bad an owner as we have right now. Are we to be grateful that we went to four Super Bowls and lost because we're not the Lions, or Browns, or the Falcons?!??!! SINCE 1999: Baltimore Ravens, Super Bowl Champions, OLD Cleveland Browns! Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. New Orleans Saints, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. Indianapolis Colts, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. St. Louis Rams, Super Bowl Champions. Average past. ALL were around since the merger... and where are we now?!?!?! STILL, yes STILL in the land of God awful. Spare me your "be thankful" routine, because I'm sick to death of it. Your perspective is narrow. You don't have the NFL without the AFL. You conveniently omit the fact you're complaining about the play of a team that's in Buffalo and has been in Buffalo for decades under the ownership of one man, regardless of the fortunes of western New York or the city itself. It's alright that you have no appreciation for the long-term financial stability of a business nor the resolution of an owner to stay in the city. As Bills fan, you've never been subjected to the whims of the Bidwells, Frontieres, Browns, Modell, the York Family or the Fords or complete jokes like Wayne Weaver which leave cities and counties holding the bag for millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Ralph is a moron because any other owner would have moved the Bills from the economic wasteland of WNY to LA decades ago. And people still blame RW for this? The man is 94 and jsut spend a ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Your perspective is narrow. You don't have the NFL without the AFL. You conveniently omit the fact you're complaining about the play of a team that's in Buffalo and has been in Buffalo for decades under the ownership of one man, regardless of the fortunes of western New York or the city itself. It's alright that you have no appreciation for the long-term financial stability of a business nor the resolution of an owner to stay in the city. As Bills fan, you've never been subjected to the whims of the Bidwells, Frontieres, Browns, Modell, the York Family or the Fords or complete jokes like Wayne Weaver which leave cities and counties holding the bag for millions. Marshal Petain helped save France during World War I, and then turned collaborator and ruined France during World War II.... same man, different results. Ahh, Marv Levy would be proud!!!! The same Art Modell who won with the Ravens? The same York family who now has a great team who can beat New England AND get to the playoffs AND who can hire a great coach? The same Georgia Frontiere who brought in Vermeil and a top notch staff that built an offensive machine and a champion? If you are going to counter my argument, I would suggest bringing to the table names of owners who suck, not ones who have won... like say Leon Hess and Woody Johnson in our own division? Stability does not equal success, it just means that no one wants to change and the status quo is acceptable, which it is not. An appreciation of the long-term success of the Bills means you have to WIN to pay the bills, literally and figuratively. If you don't win year after year after year, you fail, and that is what is happening. Businessmen don't make profits by losing unless you are say Bob Nutting of the Pirates, where the MLB system ENCOURAGES IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Marshal Petain helped save France during World War I, and then turned collaborator and ruined France during World War II.... same man, different results. Ahh, Marv Levy would be proud!!!! The same Art Modell who won with the Ravens? The same York family who now has a great team who can beat New England AND get to the playoffs AND who can hire a great coach? The same Georgia Frontiere who brought in Vermeil and a top notch staff that built an offensive machine and a champion? If you are going to counter my argument, I would suggest bringing to the table names of owners who suck, not ones who have won... like say Leon Hess and Woody Johnson in our own division? Stability does not equal success, it just means that no one wants to change and the status quo is acceptable, which it is not. An appreciation of the long-term success of the Bills means you have to WIN to pay the bills, literally and figuratively. If you don't win year after year after year, you fail, and that is what is happening. Businessmen don't make profits by losing unless you are say Bob Nutting of the Pirates, where the MLB system ENCOURAGES IT. People often seem to also mistake being a good businessman with being a good sportsman. The resuts produced by these two skillsets do often overlap as there are some examples of people who suceeded at making $ and then translated some of the talents useful for moneymaking (being an innovator, or a risk taker and being good at hiring smart people). However, there seem to be far more exmples of folks who were wizzes making money but prove to be either idiots makig sports decisions or simply seem to suceed from throwing lots of money around and lucking into getting good sports professionals. I think as a football owner Mr. Ralph is a good businessman. When he bumbled into having an employee like Bill Polian or a good football guy like John Butler, his Bills did well. However, when his personality led him to disputes with an eventually to fire Polian and when he made a simply wrong assessment that Jim Kelly had time left in his career that he made a handshake deal only he could make to reward Jimbo in his next contract which never occured he made poor football judgments which killed the team. Likewise his documented runs in with football guys like Wade Philips and Mularkey and his having to hire TD after his personality got him run out of Pittsburgh and then hwhe had to fire TD (who exhibitied his own weaknesses in hiring Gregg Wiiliams) there are example after example of Mr. Ralph failing to be a good sportsman in the mold of the Rooneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 People often seem to also mistake being a good businessman with being a good sportsman. The resuts produced by these two skillsets do often overlap as there are some examples of people who suceeded at making $ and then translated some of the talents useful for moneymaking (being an innovator, or a risk taker and being good at hiring smart people). However, there seem to be far more exmples of folks who were wizzes making money but prove to be either idiots makig sports decisions or simply seem to suceed from throwing lots of money around and lucking into getting good sports professionals. I think as a football owner Mr. Ralph is a good businessman. When he bumbled into having an employee like Bill Polian or a good football guy like John Butler, his Bills did well. However, when his personality led him to disputes with an eventually to fire Polian and when he made a simply wrong assessment that Jim Kelly had time left in his career that he made a handshake deal only he could make to reward Jimbo in his next contract which never occured he made poor football judgments which killed the team. Likewise his documented runs in with football guys like Wade Philips and Mularkey and his having to hire TD after his personality got him run out of Pittsburgh and then hwhe had to fire TD (who exhibitied his own weaknesses in hiring Gregg Wiiliams) there are example after example of Mr. Ralph failing to be a good sportsman in the mold of the Rooneys. why should we fans care what kind of businessman he is? are we supposed to cheer the fact that he may well die a billionaire. geez, if i was cheering businessmen, warren buffet would be a better guy to cheer for. and you can't have it both ways. he's lauded for throwing caution (profits) to the wind when he could have done so much better elsewhere. i don't buy this one either. at any rate, the 2 arguments are mutually exclusive. if i'm following you, we really should judge the best owners as those who won and made money. wilson ain't one of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Is Ralph the worst owner in the NFL? Is there an owner you would not trade him for? Jerry Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 why should we fans care what kind of businessman he is? are we supposed to cheer the fact that he may well die a billionaire. geez, if i was cheering businessmen, warren buffet would be a better guy to cheer for. and you can't have it both ways. he's lauded for throwing caution (profits) to the wind when he could have done so much better elsewhere. i don't buy this one either. at any rate, the 2 arguments are mutually exclusive. if i'm following you, we really should judge the best owners as those who won and made money. wilson ain't one of em. I am just arguing that in general, our society endows a lot of respect on folks who have made big bucks, but actually thia is quit3e different from being a good sportsman. While the two things are not mutually exclusive to me the two are not only different but often are contradictory. In Ralph's case I think the Bills do worse when he emphasizes the business part of his being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Miami's ownership parade Johnson in Charlotte Minnesota...whoever is up there now. San Diego Phili But yeah. let's point fingers any way we can... WTF is wrong with Jerry Richardson? I lived in Charlotte for 20 years and I swear I never heard a complaint about the guy since day #1 of that Franchise...He's a pretty incredible human being too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 He was an architect of the AFL, not the NFL... and although he created, he has also massively failed. Finding Bill Polian was LUCK, not skill... we are still paying for that error. Wow, the Lions. Let's talk about the Lions, who has as bad an owner as we have right now. Are we to be grateful that we went to four Super Bowls and lost because we're not the Lions, or Browns, or the Falcons?!??!! SINCE 1999: Baltimore Ravens, Super Bowl Champions, OLD Cleveland Browns! Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. New Orleans Saints, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. Indianapolis Colts, Super Bowl Champions. Horrible past. St. Louis Rams, Super Bowl Champions. Average past. ALL were around since the merger... and where are we now?!?!?! STILL, yes STILL in the land of God awful. Spare me your "be thankful" routine, because I'm sick to death of it. The Colts have a horrible past? Super Bowl V Champions 2 NFL Championships Johnny Unitas That's a horrible past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Marshal Petain helped save France during World War I, and then turned collaborator and ruined France during World War II.... same man, different results. Ahh, Marv Levy would be proud!!!! The same Art Modell who won with the Ravens? The same York family who now has a great team who can beat New England AND get to the playoffs AND who can hire a great coach? The same Georgia Frontiere who brought in Vermeil and a top notch staff that built an offensive machine and a champion? If you are going to counter my argument, I would suggest bringing to the table names of owners who suck, not ones who have won... like say Leon Hess and Woody Johnson in our own division? Stability does not equal success, it just means that no one wants to change and the status quo is acceptable, which it is not. An appreciation of the long-term success of the Bills means you have to WIN to pay the bills, literally and figuratively. If you don't win year after year after year, you fail, and that is what is happening. Businessmen don't make profits by losing unless you are say Bob Nutting of the Pirates, where the MLB system ENCOURAGES IT. Ahhh, the Yorks. When Eddie D was forced to sell the Niners to his sister and her husband. It seemed for awhile there the Yorks were related to Ralph Wilson. Unbelievable cheepness poured on the niners. The franchise collapsed for awhile. The Niners became a joke. The polar opposite of the Eddie D years. Then around 2008 they handed the keys to one of their kids. The current 49ers are directly a product of that move. Too bad Ralph has no one to hand the keys to. It could have made a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The question should be, do we have the worst ownership situation in the league? Answer: by far!! I feel Wilson has been an overall decent owner thru the years. But as of today he is 94 years old, with what appears like absolutely nothing in place to bring stability to the organization when he passes away. The age issue has to have had an impact on his awareness, and concern, of what has been going on with the team, at least for the past few years. His age, and lack of transition plans when he is no longer around, has probably severely limited the possible HC and GM candidates over the past 10 years. What highly qualified HC or GM would want to step into this mess. It is sad to say this but the Bills organization will remain a mess until whatever new ownership is in place after Wilson is longer around. My only hope is that new owner not take our Bills somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'd say we are top 5 at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxelRipper Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Everyone who thinks their team has the worst owner in the league has never seen any other team's fans. Go to Detroit, and their fans have been calling for Ford's head for years. That being said, Ralph may be one of the worst left since Al Davis died. Yes, he has brought moderate success and team stability for ages, but he's never been very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET1062 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Bottom Five 32. Ralph C. Wilson Jr. 31. Ralph C. Wilson Jr. 30. Ralph C. Wilson Jr. 29. Ralph C. Wilson Jr. 28. Ralph C. Wilson Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Jerry Jones My many, many friends who are Cowboys fans agree with this 100%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I don't get all this disdain for the old man. He has dumped a lot of dough on this team, and I bet he wants to win more than any of us. He just hired the wrong guys. For all is southern charm, Nix has made some bad decisions. Horsecrap, this man knows who to hire and just refuses to hire the right people for several reasons. He knew enough to hire Chuck Knox when he needed to,which was the stadium was empty and fans stopped buying season tickets. Then Wilson replaced Knox once the team was winning again and the stadium was filled again. What does it tell you about an owner who has kept the team in Buffalo for 50 years and yet doesn't setup a succession plan for when he passes. He also thinks no other person but him could make a profit in the Buffalo area. Bill Polian tried in vein to teach Wilson that you need to spend money ( in the right areas ) to make money. Also, because no good coach / GM in his right mind wants to work for a notoriously cantankerous micromanaging owner. You don't see Wilson in the locker room anymore like Jerry Jones, but his presence is there nonetheless. In the 40 or so years I've been a Bills fan I've read many things that tell me that Ralph Wilson is just about as "hands on" as any owner ever has been, or ever will be. I've read that during the season he was on the phone every day for hours with Dick Jauron, and now that Buddy Nix is the GM Wilson is on the phone every day with him. What top HC / GM would put up with that? What other owner has allowed TWO lost decades of losing, the 70's and the 2000-2012 eras. In the entire decade of the 70's the Buffalo Bills never beat Don Schula's Miami Dolphins once, not once! Ralph Wilson was too busy with his other hobbies to care about his football team. Horse breeding, horse racing and Tennis. History has shown that this owner cares more about the team making a profit then he does about winning. I'd say that easily qualifies him as the worst owner in the history of the NFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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