nodnarb Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20050104/...?tbd1058884.asp I billieve Bledsoe limits what the offense can do, and I'll bet everything I have that he will never be the difference in a victory in big game. He'll be the difference in a loss in a big game, but not in a victory. Sucks, because Drew's a great guy and I'd love to see him be successful here. I hope TD knows that if Drew is the starter in 2005, it will SERIOUSLY impact ticket sales. I just don't believe fans will want to see him in control anymore. You can't argue that the guy's play is trending downward. He's a mediocre quarterback who is defended in the press due to his career stats and character. I'll take an ass hole that just wins. No, not flutie for fugg's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 [i'll take an ass hole that just wins. No, not flutie for fugg's sake. 192899[/snapback] Given the choice between him & Drew,I'd take the 42-year-old midget in a heartbeat. If he was playing for us on Sunday, we would've won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20050104/...?tbd1058884.asp I billieve Bledsoe limits what the offense can do, and I'll bet everything I have that he will never be the difference in a victory in big game. He'll be the difference in a loss in a big game, but not in a victory. Sucks, because Drew's a great guy and I'd love to see him be successful here. I hope TD knows that if Drew is the starter in 2005, it will SERIOUSLY impact ticket sales. I just don't believe fans will want to see him in control anymore. You can't argue that the guy's play is trending downward. He's a mediocre quarterback who is defended in the press due to his career stats and character. I'll take an ass hole that just wins. No, not flutie for fugg's sake. 192899[/snapback] word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20050104/...?tbd1058884.asp I billieve Bledsoe limits what the offense can do, and I'll bet everything I have that he will never be the difference in a victory in big game. He'll be the difference in a loss in a big game, but not in a victory. 192899[/snapback] That is exactly what I said after the NE loss. We expend too much energy around giving DB the supporting cast to succeed. Bill Bellicheck did not realize this until DB got injured and HAD to play Brady. He saw the results, got the realization you state above and canned him. I will go out on a limb and say that RJ would have performed better on average given the supporting cast. Not sure OL is that much of a weakness that DB's presence makes it feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Why do we always have to bring up Flutie as though he's some horrible figure that blew a Superbowl for us? As I recall it all Flutie did was quarterback the team to a 10-5 record, get us into the playoffs, re-energize the franchise in the process, then get benched in the playoffs, and finally ridden out of town on a rail. Why - because he couldn't throw a long ball? He didn't look good in the pocket? It makes no sense to me. Part of me thinks this franchise is cursed for treating him like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Why do we always have to bring up Flutie as though he's some horrible figure that blew a Superbowl for us? As I recall it all Flutie did was quarterback the team to a 10-5 record, get us into the playoffs, re-energize the franchise in the process, then get benched in the playoffs, and finally ridden out of town on a rail. Why - because he couldn't throw a long ball? He didn't look good in the pocket? It makes no sense to me. Part of me thinks this franchise is cursed for treating him like that. 193170[/snapback] Mostly because he was a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Having one and being one can be 2 different things. Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Based on your personal relationship with Flutie, I suppose (this is a play out of your playbook) Mostly because he was a dick. 193176[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 It is mostly unfounded. While the Bills were winning games with mikstake-free football and a conservative offense, most of Bills Nation was salivating over the female-in-waiting Rob Johnson because of his vast potential. Why do we always have to bring up Flutie as though he's some horrible figure that blew a Superbowl for us? As I recall it all Flutie did was quarterback the team to a 10-5 record, get us into the playoffs, re-energize the franchise in the process, then get benched in the playoffs, and finally ridden out of town on a rail. Why - because he couldn't throw a long ball? He didn't look good in the pocket? It makes no sense to me. Part of me thinks this franchise is cursed for treating him like that. 193170[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolly Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20050104/...?tbd1058884.asp I billieve Bledsoe limits what the offense can do, and I'll bet everything I have that he will never be the difference in a victory in big game. He'll be the difference in a loss in a big game, but not in a victory. Sucks, because Drew's a great guy and I'd love to see him be successful here. I hope TD knows that if Drew is the starter in 2005, it will SERIOUSLY impact ticket sales. I just don't believe fans will want to see him in control anymore. You can't argue that the guy's play is trending downward. He's a mediocre quarterback who is defended in the press due to his career stats and character. I'll take an ass hole that just wins. No, not flutie for fugg's sake. 192899[/snapback] I disagree. I think all 8 home games will sell out again next season regardless if drew is under center or not. Bills fans are too loyal and players like mcgahee, evans, mcgee will only improve. There is still much promise for next season, I just wish we weren't stuck in this pickle with bledsoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 It is mostly unfounded. While the Bills were winning games with mikstake-free football and a conservative offense, most of Bills Nation was salivating over the homosexual-in-waiting Rob Johnson because of his vast potential. 193274[/snapback] yo dawwgg...easy on the homophobic comments...you were right about flutie being the more effective qb, lets leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Sorry bout that. I edited my post and made it sexist instead yo dawwgg...easy on the homophobic comments...you were right about flutie being the more effective qb, lets leave it at that. 193282[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 This is probably Sullivan's most unbiased article of the season. He has displayed an obvious bias against TD and DB, but this assessment is based on a fairly unbiased interpretation of the facts. I would only add this diatrabe to these thoughts. We all consistently want to make things to simplistic--gather sides on Drew Sucks or Drew shoud stay. Its not that simple... First specific to O play the last two years. Drew played horribly against all levels competition the most of '03 and the first 9 games of 04 (Sans Arizona, Miami, Jets)--horribly defined as turning the ball over, taking negative plays, etc. Even the biggest Drew hater would agree this was not 100% his fault but a combination of Drew's shortcomings, bad O-line play, bad offensive scheme and play calling, lack of a receiving threat. So go to '04 second half--what changed: 1) O-line improved and McGahee proved a more willing blitz blocker than Henry 2) Receiving talent upgraded and performed well 3) Scheme was better and more suited to our talent 4) Drew improved the quickness of his reads, showed some mobility and some ability to avoid the rush Result is we beat two playoff teams handily (Rams and Seahawks) a good team (Bengals) and some also rans (Browns, Niners, Dolphins)..the offense wasn't wonderful but it scored on turnovers, made big plays and most importantly avoided negative plays and turnovers--a substantial improvement. All of these O improvements came to the forefront except against 2 talented defenses that know Drew well and/or know the Bills scheme well--the Pats because he played there, the Steelers because LeBeau has the Bledsoe book from his year in Buffalo and the Mularkey/Clements O is not exactly a mystery in Pittsburgh... Our troubles against these two elite squads get to the real issue. The only thing that matters is preparing this team to beat the elite in the AFC...you have to anticipate who the elite are going to be next year--the Steelers with their depth, the Chargers with a slew of draft choices will only get better for example; the Jets, Broncos, Texans, Jaguars, Bengals, Ravens are all formidable and any could take a step up--I think the Pats due to age and the Colts due to cap will begin to slip a bit--they are probably still playoff caliber teams but more weaknesses start to show--the rest are still a season or two away. Bottom Line, we have to build a team that competes with this elite/emerging elite group of AFC teams..I don't think you can just say Drew sucks and leave it at that--you have to look at the major competition and assess if Drew's weaknesses or the O-Lines weaknesses or other O positional weaknesses kill you against two or three of the best teams from this group -- you have to make changes. That in more vivid terms is what Sullivan is trying to say--he believes Drew will always put us two or three teams down in the AFC no matter what the other factors...O-line, scheme, skill position talent--Is that true? Who the F knows...... I do know that this coaching staff got us from 6-10 to 9-7 with the roughly the same team as the year before -- Vincent for Winfield/Chris V for Ruben with a side switch...have they milked all they can from this talent base and this QB?? Its going to be an interesting time from the draft prep through the end of August and maybe not the stable off-season I first thought. This staff is good--they know what they want and need to reach elite and they have an owner and a GM who will listen based on this year's success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 This is probably Sullivan's most unbiased article of the season. He has displayed an obvious bias against TD and DB, but this assessment is based on a fairly unbiased interpretation of the facts. I would only add this diatrabe to these thoughts. We all consistently want to make things to simplistic--gather sides on Drew Sucks or Drew shoud stay. Its not that simple... First specific to O play the last two years. Drew played horribly against all levels competition the most of '03 and the first 9 games of 04 (Sans Arizona, Miami, Jets)--horribly defined as turning the ball over, taking negative plays, etc. Even the biggest Drew hater would agree this was not 100% his fault but a combination of Drew's shortcomings, bad O-line play, bad offensive scheme and play calling, lack of a receiving threat. So go to '04 second half--what changed: 1) O-line improved and McGahee proved a more willing blitz blocker than Henry 2) Receiving talent upgraded and performed well 3) Scheme was better and more suited to our talent 4) Drew improved the quickness of his reads, showed some mobility and some ability to avoid the rush Result is we beat two playoff teams handily (Rams and Seahawks) a good team (Bengals) and some also rans (Browns, Niners, Dolphins)..the offense wasn't wonderful but it scored on turnovers, made big plays and most importantly avoided negative plays and turnovers--a substantial improvement. All of these O improvements came to the forefront except against 2 talented defenses that know Drew well and/or know the Bills scheme well--the Pats because he played there, the Steelers because LeBeau has the Bledsoe book from his year in Buffalo and the Mularkey/Clements O is not exactly a mystery in Pittsburgh... Our troubles against these two elite squads get to the real issue. The only thing that matters is preparing this team to beat the elite in the AFC...you have to anticipate who the elite are going to be next year--the Steelers with their depth, the Chargers with a slew of draft choices will only get better for example; the Jets, Broncos, Texans, Jaguars, Bengals, Ravens are all formidable and any could take a step up--I think the Pats due to age and the Colts due to cap will begin to slip a bit--they are probably still playoff caliber teams but more weaknesses start to show--the rest are still a season or two away. Bottom Line, we have to build a team that competes with this elite/emerging elite group of AFC teams..I don't think you can just say Drew sucks and leave it at that--you have to look at the major competition and assess if Drew's weaknesses or the O-Lines weaknesses or other O positional weaknesses kill you against two or three of the best teams from this group -- you have to make changes. That in more vivid terms is what Sullivan is trying to say--he believes Drew will always put us two or three teams down in the AFC no matter what the other factors...O-line, scheme, skill position talent--Is that true? Who the F knows...... I do know that this coaching staff got us from 6-10 to 9-7 with the roughly the same team as the year before -- Vincent for Winfield/Chris V for Ruben with a side switch...have they milked all they can from this talent base and this QB?? Its going to be an interesting time from the draft prep through the end of August and maybe not the stable off-season I first thought. This staff is good--they know what they want and need to reach elite and they have an owner and a GM who will listen based on this year's success... 193363[/snapback] Excellent post. I agree with what you said here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 agree...nice analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Excellent post. I agree with what you said here. 193373[/snapback] I am what on another board is described as a "Drew fluffer" ( whatever that is ), however, I like to think that I can think objectively and, while doing that very thing ( I hop! ) I can't wuite see how "giving the team" to Losman for next year would make it more likely that the Bils would make the playoffs! I can, of course, see having Losman play "here and there" and then "giving him the team" in 2006. If this is anything like "the other board", I will be attacked for this stance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20050104/...?tbd1058884.asp He'll be the difference in a loss in a big game, but not in a victory. 192899[/snapback] I had to go back and read the Sullivan column based on the topic of this thread, because when I read it it certainly stuck me as less histrionic than his usual screed but cotaining no great truths or points. Upon re-reading it I feel the same way. He correctly lays out some stats but once again fails in my view to draw reasonable conclusions which are supported by the stats he cites. For example it is true that in the 9 games the Bills won they had it done by the 5th quarter, but while it shows that Bledsoe did not win the game with an Elway like TD drive in the final minutes, this stat fails to have any relevance to whether DBs play was good or not. Perhaps he should get all sorts of praise for putting it out of reach so early or allowing JP a bad of time in mop-up duty. Perhaps we want to sing the praises of the ST or D for delivering us these comfortable margins. What it says conclusively or even indicates about the quality of QB play in the wins is nothing. I think Sully has fallen pray to the same mistake highlighted by your line which I quote above. My sense is that playing mistake free, limited mistake or even making a bunch of mistakes at the right time when you can afford to take risks is in fact a big part and a big contribution to many victories. If Bledsoe threw 3 INTs a game but they were all like the INTs he threw in one game this season where we ended up blowing the oppenent out in a laugher I'd still love the SB trophy from this undeated season as much as if i had won it with great QB play. I think an overall assessment of Bledsoe's play has to be that he was a same old same old. A team can win going awsy with Bledsoe if they use his powerful arm as a change-up rather than rely on it top win games for them and if the rest of the team plays like we expect pro to play. Against Pittsburgh the D really stunk on a few plays and gave up big gains to a 4th string RB and let lower string QBs knife them. The ST did not turn in the stellar performance it has much of the season and sucked bad in fumbling an early punt and missing a chip shot field goal. These problems do not forgive DB at all his own errors, but why anyone would expect DB to deliver a team playing bad ball is beuyond me. DB can QB team to alot of wins and wins in crtical games as he did under the guidance of Parcells in their SB apearance and in a must-win game as he did under BB. However, henever has and probably never won the big one all on his own. It seems that amidst his tirafes Sully may have stopped ranting and realized this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Given the choice between him & Drew,I'd take the 42-year-old midget in a heartbeat. If he was playing for us on Sunday, we would've won. 192928[/snapback] As much as I dislike that little QB, and believe me...I REALLY dislike him...I thought the exact same thing Sunday... Just shows you great minds think alike Rico! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 As much as I dislike that little QB, and believe me...I REALLY dislike him...I thought the exact same thing Sunday... Just shows you great minds think alike Rico! 193463[/snapback] You are a great man, KOK! .... I don't hate Flutie, he was a winner. Obviously had limitations, but he made the most of his abilities. To tell the truth, I never really got into the Flutie-RJ war, though of the two, I definitely preferred Flutie.. I think both of them got a raw deal in Buffalo: Flutie getting pulled before the Titans game, RJ being expected to be a NFL QB in 2001 behind a Continental Football League OL (that experience ruined him IMO). Drew's another story. I've been a Bills fan since OJ's rookie year, and I've never been more disgusted with any Bills player than Drew, no one else is even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 As much as I dislike that little QB, and believe me...I REALLY dislike him...I thought the exact same thing Sunday... Just shows you great minds think alike Rico! 193463[/snapback] My feelings exactly. I dont care for Doug but we would of won if Doug was back there. Think about it- Doug and Drew are complete opposites. Drew has all the physical attributes that Doug lacks but Doug plays with heart and is a winner. When the game is on the line Doug will step up and make a play. Doug knows how to win.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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