cantankerous Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Lotta reaching and trying hard to get upset in here. Nix has made it clear that QB will be top priority in the offseason. He has always stuck to his word. No good manager throws his employees under the bus, especially in the middle of a season. THAT is how you run off guys like Byrd, Levitre, Spiller, etc. He has no reason to throw guys like Byrd, Levitre, Spiller, etc under the bus. They are all performing. Fitzpatrick on the other hand?? Edited December 1, 2012 by cantankerous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Maybe Kubiak ans Schaub? Or Fisher and McNair. But both those combos were more on the level of sustained mediocrity rather than bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 He has no reason to throw guys like Byrd, Levitre, Spiller, etc under the bus. They are all performing. Fitzpatrick on the other hand?? I don't think he needs to throw Fitz under the bus either...What he should do is be honest about the effect the QB position has on NFL Offenses, and basically say this Season is not over...When it is, they will look at the QB position, just like they will look at all positions...And if they decide an improvement is necessary at QB, or anywhere else, they will be aggressive in pursuing all options for the immediate and distant future...That's all he has to say...IMHO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) So if I asked you the same question after everyone of your posts, until you gave me the answer that I wanted to hear, you wouldn't either keep answering the question with the same answer you always do and get frustrated with responding every time, or just completly ignore me after a few times responding? Fans and the media are going to keep asking him the same thing until he gives them the answer they want to hear, that Chan and Fitz are gone ASAP You don't get that response from him the first time, ask him again, still not the response you want, ask again, and you keep going til he tells you what you want to hear I know you and I haven't always been eye to eye on topics. Generally I agree with you on this one. But... And it's a big but... Chan has gotten considerably worse with his game management, playcalling, and use of his stars. Everyone is calling for Chan and/or Fitz' head right now. His response, and I didn't hear it, but from what I read, is that it sounds very similar to when Donahoe was "offended" by Bills fans when we said bad things about Williams as a coach. Remember that? And hey, Williams turned out to be a POS in the end anyway. I understand that Buddy wouldn't want to get into it, but from the way his answer sounds on paper is that he's getting sick of hearing that he made bad decisions. And is only offended by his own lack of management and not taking care of the problems. If he really does back Chan and his overpaid QB, then he doesn't belong here either. They are both bottom of the league in production in their time here. There's gotta be a better way to answer that question on a local radio station than something along the lines if, if you ask me that again, this call is over. Say something relevant. Say that your not happy with where we are as a team. Your not happy things haven't turned out the way you expected. Your not happy with the play on the field. Something. Anything. Glad to see I'm off your ignore list. Edited December 1, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Lotta reaching and trying hard to get upset in here. Nix has made it clear that QB will be top priority in the offseason. He has always stuck to his word. No good manager throws his employees under the bus, especially in the middle of a season. THAT is how you run off guys like Byrd, Levitre, Spiller, etc. Still, the difference in the following possible responses is abundantly apparent, is it not? "Our goals going into this season were to have a winning record and make the playoffs. Those goals are still attainable and I still fully expect our team to reach those goals," versus, "I don't want to talk about it anymore. I'm going to hang up on you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Very good post. Thanks for sharing. What a difference context makes. Thanks Marcellosaurus!! I understand where you are coming from in your post, however, I disagree with this part of it that I quoted above. Fitz did not play as well in weeks 1-7 as many people think he did. First off, we should have lost the Raider and NE games on Fitz INTS that would have ended the game in both cases. In Raiders game, he threw 2 straight INT's in the endzone on back to back passes, but the ball hit the Raiders defenders right in the hands and they dropped it. On the third gift attempt, he finally got one in there and it ended up being the difference in the game, but it never should have happened after 2 straight horrible passes that should have been intercepted. Then in the NE game he threw what would have been probably the game ending INT essentially by throwing a bomb to the endzone about 12 yards short that was easily intercepted. He was again bailed out, this time by a defensive penalty that had no affect on the outcome of the play. Freddie later ran the ball down there for them and we instead got a TD that put us ahead for good. There were many other mistakes, dropped INT's etc that he got lucky on, not to mention our D producing turnovers and TD's (along with ST's) that also bailed him out like that Spiller KO for a TD. Fitz's stats look ok, but the on field product during the 7 week stretch was not nearly as impressive as the stat sheets suggest which is why so many were upset over his contract at that point. More importantly, once the D stopped producing turnovers at an insane rate and teams realize Fitz can not throw deep and all of Chans O is within 10 yards of the LOS this offense was just dead. Just like it has been during large parts of this season. And lets not forget, that our avg points per game this year were padded with blow out points we added when game was all but over in two blow out losses earlier in the year. Fitz was awful and so was the O in the Jets game where he piled on stats and points once we were down like 41-3 in the fourth. And in the NE game, Fitz and the O were just awful in the 2nd half and didnt start scoring again until NE was up huge and played prevent. Thats the problem with Fitz, he gets a lot of garbage time production to make his stats look better than his actual on field performance. Yes, he has had some good games, but I can name lots of bad QB's that had good games. Like them though, Fitz has way more bad games than good games and that has always been his issue. He didnt have to say they are moving on from Fitz, but he could at least say they plan to examine all positions and staff in the off season and make the best choices for the team. This team has four lousy wins, maybe some of these idiots need to know their job is on the line. The problem is, I actually think Nix meant everything he said and that he feels Chan and Fitz or the immediate future. I dont get from Nix that QB is a pressing issue. He seems to want a young guy at some point to groom for later, but doesnt seem to think he needs one to replace him in the near future. My concern is, what happens with our young guys like Byrd, Levitre, Wood, Spiller, etc when they start becoming free agents (some of them this offseason) and our GM is providing no hope for change by sticking with what hasnt worked. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things and expect different results. Chan is insane as he keeps doing the same things week in and week out, including under using our most talented position on this team...RB...and depending on a weak arm and inconsistent QB who is now 8 years in the league with no signs of improvement. I hear what you're saying, BUT it cuts both ways! You can't just look at it the lucky plays where Fitz avoided picks - that's too one-sided. What about Stevie Johnson's drops against PitT & the Jets - there 2 wins down the drain right there. I won't try and research other plays, but I am sure there just as many bad luck plays where we dropped passes, dropped picks, fumbled and made penalties - and of course had the Refs go against us (LOL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Thanks Marcellosaurus!! I hear what you're saying, BUT it cuts both ways! You can't just look at it the lucky plays where Fitz avoided picks - that's too one-sided. What about Stevie Johnson's drops against PitT & the Jets - there 2 wins down the drain right there. I won't try and research other plays, but I am sure there just as many bad luck plays where we dropped passes, dropped picks, fumbled and made penalties - and of course had the Refs go against us (LOL). I understand that, and you have a valid point. My dissatisfaction with Fitz's on field performance does not absolve the rest of this mistake prone team from their mistakes. Its not all on Fitz. However, for example that Pitt game (which I believe was two years ago not last year if I am not mistaken) all people remember is the dropped TD pass by SJ because they should, it was an epic fail. However, Fitz did not have a good game either that game. Our D played very good, yet our O stunk as a whole that game and wound up in a low scoring OT game. One could argue, a more competent QB doesn't miss so many opportunities during regulation and we win without even having to go to OT. But, that pass was perfect and that was an epic fail by Stevie for sure. My only point, is the stat sheet does not ever tell an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a player, especially QB's. For instance...a RB may have a stat line that says 20 carries 100 yards. Looks like the run game was going good...but what that info does not reflect is that the RB had one fluke 80 yard run on a break down by the D and only got 19 yards on his other 19 carries and was a total non factor that game. Last year, at the end of the game, Fitz's stats looked solid a lot during those first 6 or 7 weeks, but his on field play was still erratic, inconsistent, and streaky. Look at his year end stats from the first year he took over...they look solid, but what it doesnt show is that 8 of his TD's came in 2 games (Balt and Cinci) one of which his INT's lost us the game (Balt) and the other he was atrocious with 3 INTs until Cinci lost literally half their starting secondary and Fitz was able to rally after that. Again, he is a guy that can have some good games and get hot...unfortunately for us, everything needs to go just right and all the breaks need to be in our favor before there is even a chance of that happening. He is not a guy that can carry a team, overcome obstacles, etc. He comes up short way more than he comes through with the game on the line to make it worse. And if you look at our 4 wins this year, we mostly dominated the run game in those wins. When Fitzy is the focal point, it usually does not result in a win. And that is my issue here. He is not good enough to be the focal point, and this has been proven for 4 years now in Buffalo by him, yet Chan still insists on making him the focal point while Nix continues year in and year out to ignore a young prospect in the draft that could push him for the gig. Nix said last year they would get a QB if they felt one was there yet passed on key players at great value in rounds 2-4. So while I believe Nix might eventually grab a guy, I just do not get a sense of urgency from him and he is literally just going to wait until some prospect slips or falls in his lap before actually going up to get one or taking a chance on one that isn't graded as a top 10 guy. Thats my issue, and I have been defending Chan and Nix, especially Nix coming into this season...but I just am losing hope that the right change is going to come and that next year would be better rather than more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Hey Buddy, Cry me a river Winning teams don't have to answer either of those questions. Want softball questions? WIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 You're 100% right on the QB part. I heard the interview and they were just trying to get Nix to say that Fitz won't be the QB next year. No GM would ever say that with 5 games left. It serves no purpose. Disagree on Bryd though. He will be a priority and if they can sign him, it's only like $5 million for franchise tag on a safety. I'd bet a lot of money he is a Bill next year. I soooooo hope your right about Bryd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPT1974 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Ownership needs to change whether the team thinks that it does or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Little Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Maybe I am alone, but I am glad they are safe. I am sick of coaching and QB turnover. I don't understand this "logic" at all. It's like knowingly drinking spoiled milk because you're too lazy to go to the store and buy a new carton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Still, the difference in the following possible responses is abundantly apparent, is it not? "Our goals going into this season were to have a winning record and make the playoffs. Those goals are still attainable and I still fully expect our team to reach those goals," versus, "I don't want to talk about it anymore. I'm going to hang up on you." this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Nix said last year they would get a QB if they felt one was there yet passed on key players at great value in rounds 2-4. So while I believe Nix might eventually grab a guy, I just do not get a sense of urgency from him and he is literally just going to wait until some prospect slips or falls in his lap before actually going up to get one or taking a chance on one that isn't graded as a top 10 guy. Thats my issue, and I have been defending Chan and Nix, especially Nix coming into this season...but I just am losing hope that the right change is going to come and that next year would be better rather than more of the same. This is where we fans lose perspective. He wants a Luck or RG3, he didn't want to get a guy who's the equivalent of Fitz &/or would need to sit for 3 years. He wants impact players and the QBs he passed on were not sure things (though I agree many have panned out so far). Buddy's been 'buying the groceries' for 3 years now. He has a plan. It wasn't to get the best QB right off the bat and get him killed with the inferior talent around him and he's told us as much. The first 2 years was to get good drafts. Remember how we all whined that he didn't get any FA's (of value) the first 2 years? Then in year 3 we had a collective off-season orgasism (sp) when he signed Mario. Then he signs Anderson - we were beside ourselves. He almost had WR Meachem too. He said at the time they didn't want to get the FA's the 1st 2 years because that would be wasting money (earrings on a pig, so to speak). They'd be getting paid while everyone around them looks like JV back-ups. But once he had a couple of decent drafts and the team was looking like it could start to challenge, he went after those big fish. What I really like about Buddy is that he doesn't talk down to us. He tells us if he can't tell us something and he has told us what his plan is and he's stuck to it. Two things have happened to make the plans look worse than expected. Fitz hasn't improved nor played consistently above average and the defense hasn't panned out as hoped (yet). But he's really done everything he said he was gonna do. I believe (I do not know this) that he didn't go after Manning because he wants a young guy, not a guy ready to retire when the rest of the team is ready to make a run. (Although it would have been sweet to have Manning here. My only hope is that Manning makes Denver forget about Elway. I never liked him for what he did to Baltimore.) But I digress. I think the QB and LB's are the next targets while holding to his mantras - draft well, keep/re-sign your good guys (Levitre, Byrd, etc) and look to improve your roster at all positions - if there's an upgrade out there - you go & get it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Let me just say something here, that will probably be ignored because were on page 5 and no one wants to hear it. BUT... the bills are going into a game against the Jaguars this weekend. The 2-9 Jacksonville Jaguars. At home. A win, and we could be 1 game back from a wildcard, with a month of football left. I know that were 4-7, and have underperformed. But there's still a quarter of the season left, and the Bills could... COULD.. still catch lightening in a bottle and make the playoffs. ADDITIONALLY, the remaining 3 games at the ralph are all about 15,000 seats short of a sell out. Now, the Bills at the end of the day are a business, like any other business in the world. I can promise you that once a week, the marketing team, senior management, the treasurer, and possibly (but unlikely) the coach have a meeting. This meeting has nothing to do with "how are we going to beat the jags" but more of a forecast, where are we going, what are we doing, type of meeting. So, two options for this weeks meeting: option 1: say "this season is f*cked, were doomed, were going to tear it down this offseason, its over, fitz is cut, gaileys on the way out, see ya in 2013." ok, well--that very well may be the case. hell, it probably IS the case. but the only thing that happens if they come out and say that is NO ONE buys tickets for the remaining games. option 2: say "were staying the course." hope the bills beat the jags this weekend. IF the bills beat the jags this weekend, buffalo wakes up on monday morning 1 game back from the playoffs, with an EASY game against the rams coming up. you might sell 8,000 tickets that day alone, just based on the thought that "hey, i guess the bills arent out of it." All Nix is doing in this interview is "shaping the message." he's not going to go down the "the season is over" road, because there are still 45,000 seats to sell the rest of this season. AND, the bills COULD still contend for a few more weeks. This isnt a conspiracy, its just simple marketing. You guys honestly think that you watch the games, see how terrible fitz is, and nix watches these games, with whaley by his side, and they both say "THAT guy is the qb of our future!"?? i mean, do you really think that's what's happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 The only problem with that JohhnyGold is that Nix has said that Gailey is his man and Gailey has said Fitz is his man. Nix hasn't steered too far from what he's told us in the past. If he says we're going to do something it has so far held pretty true. So this in no way gives any credibility to him actually not believing in Fitz. Oh, he's also resigned Fitz to a $60m contract which has also stated his belief in the QB. Now, to your point about what he said in the interview or what he Didnt say more likely. To me It's not what came out of his mouth, as much as the way it came out. Your the GM of an NFL team. One that has been a complete disappointment since you've been there. One Thats been a joke of the league for pretty much the existence. Even our "good" days we lost 4 straight and are pretty much the punch line for all teams losing in the big game. He absolutely can go into the interview and back his coach and his QB. He can absolutely give hope that we can still turn this thing around. He obviously can talk about how things have been miserable. But, the way he said, what he said is like a dagger into every Bills fan out there that is t just your average fan. True fans know what the problems are. He knows what the problems are. For someone in a position of his to basically take his ball and go home, or in this case, threaten to do that if things don't go his way in the interview is just disrespectful to the fan base. I didn't listen to the interview, but I doubt the guys at GR really drilled him in anything. From the way the quote was written, I can imagine Nix saying it now. It sounds like he is "offended" by the question and refuses to call a turd a turd. Ill say it again, it sounds very similar to how Dinahoe acted as we tossed Greg Williams aside as a fan base. And then Mularkey as well. It crap the way TD handled those situations and its starting to look like that with Nix. Ill say this agin as well, Nix married himself to Chan and Fitz and under thier watch, we are worse off than when we had Juron. How did we all feel about Juron??? Worst coach in Bills history possibly right? Well, Chan has done less with much more. He's also done less without even close to the amount if injuries Juron had. We all know what we have with our running game and Stevie and Chandler and honestly, it's a crime that these guys don't have more production than they do. Chan is first to blame for that because he knows what we have and he refuses to use these players or call plays to benefit our strengths. Futz us next for just not being that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 there is no hope until ownership changes Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smears Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 A competitive football team would have made changes weeks ago. Not to hope for a better result, but to show how serious the team is at the least. The Bills have an owner who lives quietly in Michigan and gets sponge baths from hired nurses. It seems Russ Brandon and Nix are calling most the shots. The more and more you think of it, this franchise is set up for failure. Only thing that will improve this team is the over due death of Wilson, and a new HC and QB. If only one of the three happen, it wont be good enough. All three have to happen. Im tired of kitty footing around the QB issue. Im at the point where I hope we draft like 4 of them and give them all a shot. What do we have to lose?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 The only problem with that JohhnyGold is that Nix has said that Gailey is his man and Gailey has said Fitz is his man. Nix hasn't steered too far from what he's told us in the past. If he says we're going to do something it has so far held pretty true. So this in no way gives any credibility to him actually not believing in Fitz. Oh, he's also resigned Fitz to a $60m contract which has also stated his belief in the QB. Now, to your point about what he said in the interview or what he Didnt say more likely. To me It's not what came out of his mouth, as much as the way it came out. Your the GM of an NFL team. One that has been a complete disappointment since you've been there. One Thats been a joke of the league for pretty much the existence. Even our "good" days we lost 4 straight and are pretty much the punch line for all teams losing in the big game. He absolutely can go into the interview and back his coach and his QB. He can absolutely give hope that we can still turn this thing around. He obviously can talk about how things have been miserable. But, the way he said, what he said is like a dagger into every Bills fan out there that is t just your average fan. True fans know what the problems are. He knows what the problems are. For someone in a position of his to basically take his ball and go home, or in this case, threaten to do that if things don't go his way in the interview is just disrespectful to the fan base. I didn't listen to the interview, but I doubt the guys at GR really drilled him in anything. From the way the quote was written, I can imagine Nix saying it now. It sounds like he is "offended" by the question and refuses to call a turd a turd. i totally get what you're saying, and i think it's valid. i just think that the reason nix is so tired about talking about it RIGHT NOW, is because of an organizational decision to stay the course for the next 4 weeks. me and you both want nix to say: "this season has been a resounding disappointment. ryan fitzpatrick has regressed, and is unable to make the nuanced throws required to get an afc team to the 12 to 13 win threshold necessary to compete for a bye in the playoffs, and give us a realistic shot at representing the AFC in the superbowl. gailey's excessive reliance on fitz has cost us games we should have won, and they both will be sumarilly released from their affiliation with this organization following the final whistle in the jets game in 5 weeks." he could say that. and then, for all intents and purposes, the product that they are trying to sell (the buffalo bills,) has a shelf life that is 5 weeks shorter. it would amount to saying: "this season is over." nix is southern, but he's not dumb. we have home games against the jags and the rams in the next 8 days. believe me when i say that an organization as profitable as the bills knows that despite how god awful we have been this season, odds are actually pretty strong that we will be either tied for, or in sole possesion of a wild card spot 8 days from now. reread that--it seems outlandish, but it is what it is. do you think we can beat the jags and the rams at home? i do. theyre trying to sell a product. there are still tens of thousands of seats that need to be sold. there is clearly a top-down message from bills brass: the season isn't over, no talk about tearing it down yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 But the season is essentially over for exactly your arguments...Fitz hasn't been able to make the nuanced throws for the past 20 games and Chan continues to call them instead of using our best weapon (CJ) and should be canned for that. Fans know that changes need to be made and won't support the product by paying to see the same bumbling bills now that the playoffs are out of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 ... theyre trying to sell a product. there are still tens of thousands of seats that need to be sold. there is clearly a top-down message from bills brass: the season isn't over, no talk about tearing it down yet. I'm glad that's clear to you. In contrast, it sounds like the interview may have been emotionally charged and rather defensive. By the way, it's really not that hard to sell the proper objectives and it doesn't involve irresponsible actions like throwing the people that report to you under the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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