papazoid Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The NFL is now a duo RB league.... Leave things how they are! yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFLstyle Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I may go for this when CJ quits running out of bounds to avoid tackles. Can't have the best of both worlds. If he's getting anything near 20 carries a game he should be avoiding hits when possible. His strength is not running over linebackers just for an extra yard. I think the role he's in right now is solid, if he can get 15 carries a game plus five receptions he can put up MVP numbers, if he gets more than that he'll probably get worn down and dinged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prenzoni Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think CJ has taken major steps this season, but he still isn't a complete back and I kinda like keeping the defense on their toes splitting the carries. I know Fred fumbled the first play of the game sunday, but he is still less likely overall to fumble on a big hit then CJ is. I like the splitting but it still seems like Gailey could use them better, for example, I would never have CJ in when it is down at the 1 or 2 yard line and you are running up the gut, he is too small and takes too big of hits doing that (see the end of the first half against the Pats). Fred has much more power, better up the gut, but he isn't as quick as CJ and isn't as big a threat in open field. That said, I really like when they have both of them in the backfield, really keeps the defense from playing towards one strength and they have to be prepared for either one of them. Not to mention, all backs can get hurt, and CJ is certainly no exception to that, especially since he is so small, splitting carries will help in keeping the both as healthy as possible. I have to disagree with this. CJ is averaging 7.6 YPC while FJ is only averaging 2.9. According to Jeremy White this morning, CJ is averaging 9.1 YPC when running between the tackles. As far as size, FJ is 6-1, 216 and CJ is 5-11, 200. That is not a huge difference. Spiller should get 20-25 touches per game and Fred should be used a a change of pace only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I have to disagree with this. CJ is averaging 7.6 YPC while FJ is only averaging 2.9. According to Jeremy White this morning, CJ is averaging 9.1 YPC when running between the tackles. As far as size, FJ is 6-1, 216 and CJ is 5-11, 200. That is not a huge difference. Spiller should get 20-25 touches per game and Fred should be used a a change of pace only. Misleading stats. Spiller's runs have been mostly draws and shotgun carries. Not normal single set runs, which is what FJ runs out of. Even when FJ was hurt, Choice and White took those carries. I'm not taking away from Spillers accomplishments, but you are comparing apples to oranges. As impressive as Spiller has been, you can't call every run to be a draw play. It works best when the defense isn't ready for it. Also, for Spillers style of game to be effective the Bills HAVE to pass out of his formation or the defense will just key on the run. I think Gailey has called that aspect of the game well. Spiller would be even better if we had an effective QB. However we don't, so FJ is good guy to have grinding it out. You can compare sizes if you want, but it's blatently obvious that FJ is the more powerful back, and Spiller is the faster... Edited October 17, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Having Fred as the starter keeps Spiller fresh and explosive. I dont agree with Chan on a lot, but splitting the workload between the two backs is one of the best things he's done. There's a reason CJ is averaging over 7 yards per carry. Fred wears teams down and while they have their hands on their hips trying to catch their breath, CJ comes in a breaks off a big one with his explosive speed. Splitting the carries is working perfectly, we just need to run the ball more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Misleading stats. Spiller's runs have been mostly draws and shotgun carries. Not normal single set runs, which is what FJ runs out of. Even when FJ was hurt, Choice and White took those carries. I'm not taking away from Spillers accomplishments, but you are comparing apples to oranges. As impressive as Spiller has been, you can't call every run to be a draw play. It works best when the defense isn't ready for it. Also, for Spillers style of game to be effective the Bills HAVE to pass out of his formation or the defense will just key on the run. I think Gailey has called that aspect of the game well. Spiller would be even better if we had an effective QB. However we don't, so FJ is good guy to have grinding it out. You can compare sizes if you want, but it's blatently obvious that FJ is the more powerful back, and Spiller is the faster... Could it be that FJ doesn't get those carries because he's not fast enough to get to the hole from that far back? Trying to rationalize why CJ has a higher YPC is a joke. Who cares HOW he gets them? The point is that he DOES. And, by your own admission about CJ being faster, since Chan likes to frequently run a spread offense it makes sense to have CJ on the field more than FJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Could it be that FJ doesn't get those carries because he's not fast enough to get to the hole from that far back? Trying to rationalize why CJ has a higher YPC is a joke. Who cares HOW he gets them? The point is that he DOES. And, by your own admission about CJ being faster, since Chan likes to frequently run a spread offense it makes sense to have CJ on the field more than FJ. You completely missed the point chief. CJ and FJ don't do the same things. They don't run the same plays in this offense. FJ does his things better, CJ does his things better. CJ is the more explosive back, and should produce more yards on offense, no one said anything otherwise. That doesn't mean running him 30 times a game is going to make him more productive. Having him run the short yardage and power game doesn't make any sense, when that's not his strong suit. When they are healthy, the run game is working for the Bills, and working well. I think it's funny that people are complaining about the one aspect of the Bills game that has been consistent and successful... Having Fred as the starter keeps Spiller fresh and explosive. I dont agree with Chan on a lot, but splitting the workload between the two backs is one of the best things he's done. There's a reason CJ is averaging over 7 yards per carry. Fred wears teams down and while they have their hands on their hips trying to catch their breath, CJ comes in a breaks off a big one with his explosive speed. Splitting the carries is working perfectly, we just need to run the ball more. This ^ Edited October 17, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think CJ has taken major steps this season, but he still isn't a complete back and I kinda like keeping the defense on their toes splitting the carries. I know Fred fumbled the first play of the game sunday, but he is still less likely overall to fumble on a big hit then CJ is. I like the splitting but it still seems like Gailey could use them better, for example, I would never have CJ in when it is down at the 1 or 2 yard line and you are running up the gut, he is too small and takes too big of hits doing that (see the end of the first half against the Pats). Fred has much more power, better up the gut, but he isn't as quick as CJ and isn't as big a threat in open field. That said, I really like when they have both of them in the backfield, really keeps the defense from playing towards one strength and they have to be prepared for either one of them. Not to mention, all backs can get hurt, and CJ is certainly no exception to that, especially since he is so small, splitting carries will help in keeping the both as healthy as possible. I not opposed to using both players but I think CJ should get the most of the carries. Yes you are correct by saying Fred is the stronger back and still can be used effectively in 3and 2 and goalline . But to split carries at this point seems like Gailey trying to keep em both happy. Not anymore CJ is the better back period and should get the most touches. so far its a landslide 70 percent see that Spiller should get most of the carries. Maybe we can use the 70- 30 split in carries. Say if CJ get 20 carries a game which by the way is only 5 per quarter don't you think he is gonna break off a big run say 2 or 3 times a game? To me you got to get your most explosive player on the field as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timba Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 CJ is definitely the more explosive of the two, but Freddy is still our third best weapon on offense. They both should be on the field as much as possible. The offense should be tailored to what we have, and we have two very good backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Its a one, two punch. We need both to be effective. They are both starters. Fred is the tough guy. CJ is awesome but I don't think he can carry the entire load himself. Not really. CJ alone had 160+ yards rushing. I can't recall Fred ever matching that total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I may go for this when CJ quits running out of bounds to avoid tackles. I would have agreed with you the last 2 seasons, but not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 CJ should have 25 touches a game. The jump cut he made is something hardly anyone else can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have no problem with saving his body from unnecessary hits Me too, but we're not as tough as Jim is. He's from Alaska. I not opposed to using both players but I think CJ should get the most of the carries. Yes you are correct by saying Fred is the stronger back and still can be used effectively in 3and 2 and goalline . But to split carries at this point seems like Gailey trying to keep em both happy. Not anymore CJ is the better back period and should get the most touches. so far its a landslide 70 percent see that Spiller should get most of the carries. Maybe we can use the 70- 30 split in carries. Say if CJ get 20 carries a game which by the way is only 5 per quarter don't you think he is gonna break off a big run say 2 or 3 times a game? To me you got to get your most explosive player on the field as much as possible. "so far its a landslide 70 percent see that Spiller should get most of the carries." A couple of things here: 1st: the poll asks who should start, not who should get the most touches. 2nd: there's a reason we are not making these decisions. We don't know as much as we think we do, me included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'd like to see Spiller get 16-18 carries and 5-6 passes a game. Fred with 8-12 carries and some 3rd down work since he can catch and pickup the blitz. They both should be on the field together though, either a 2 back set or one of them split out wide. Make the D commit to one of them to free up the other guy. They are our 2 best offensive weapons with all due respect to Stevie and Chandler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I may go for this when CJ quits running out of bounds to avoid tackles. There was no way he was getting a first down.. Having Fred as the starter keeps Spiller fresh and explosive. I dont agree with Chan on a lot, but splitting the workload between the two backs is one of the best things he's done. There's a reason CJ is averaging over 7 yards per carry. Fred wears teams down and while they have their hands on their hips trying to catch their breath, CJ comes in a breaks off a big one with his explosive speed. Splitting the carries is working perfectly, we just need to run the ball more. Uh.. do you realize that Spiller had his best games when he was the starter. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Me too, but we're not as tough as Jim is. He's from Alaska. "so far its a landslide 70 percent see that Spiller should get most of the carries." A couple of things here: 1st: the poll asks who should start, not who should get the most touches. 2nd: there's a reason we are not making these decisions. We don't know as much as we think we do, me included. Let me refresh CJ should start meaning he should get the bulk of the carries. Sometimes I think I'm smarter than these people at OBD. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This ^ When you have two good weapons, you use them both. In fact Gailey often had them both on the field at the same time last game. It kind of boggles my mind why people would only want to use one or the other... I don't think anyone on here is saying we ONLy want to use one or another. I didn't read every post, but I think the majority here think CJ should get the majority of the carries. Whether it be 60% or 75%. He deserves more touches than Fred right now. If you can't see that from watching the games, then I don't know what you're watching. Fred hasn't looked like the same guy we saw last year. Not even close. Hopefully it's just his knee injury nagging him. Either way, Cj can help our team more than Fred can right now. I'd probably distribute the touches 24 for Cj and around 13 for Fred. Last week they had 37 touches between them. Fred had 21. Cj had 16. I'm glad he's running out of bounds when there's nothing there. No reason for a speed demon home run hitting RB should be trying to knock someone over to prove he's a tough guy. Keep him healthy and our offense can be effective (even with a lower tier QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'd like to keep a split, but more like 65/35 in CJ's favor. Fred is great for short yardage/between the tackles runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Especially with David Nelson out, and TJ and Donald Jones just marginal receivers at this point in time, I really don't see why Chan doesn't keep them both in on 90% of the plays, and each play do one of four things: 1] Keep them both in the backfield. 2] Split one or the other out wide and keep one in the backfield. 3] Keep both in the backfield and then put one of them in motion to either side. 4] Keep one in the backfield and the other out wide and then put the one in the backfield in motion to either side. It seems to me we could run or pass out of any of them, and give the defense fits as to whether we are going to pass or run, and sometimes get mismatches when they end up having to put a LB on Spiller. Edited October 17, 2012 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Its a one, two punch. We need both to be effective. They are both starters. Fred is the tough guy. CJ is awesome but I don't think he can carry the entire load himself. Fred is just getting started. That tripple stiff arm run last week was brutally awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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