"I wanted to run it even more in the second half"

[Chilly]

Thought this was an interesting and telling quote from Chan in the post game press conference. It isn't in the Bills or nfl.com highlights, but is in WGR's recording.

 

The question (comment) was: "You seemed to really stick with the run today. You really stayed with it against a pretty talented front 7".

 

Chan said: "The longer we played, the tighter their safeties played. That's why in the second half we ended up throwing a little bit more in the second half. I would have liked to have run it even more but they wouldn't let us do it."

 

Yes, the offense wasn't great today, and Fitz played terribly. But this comment (and, given, when the Bills tried to run it at the end of the game, they couldn't get anything), makes me think Chan is the right guy to run the O.

 

The Wildcat call was stupid. Going conservative and punting was extremely questionable. But I also thought Chan did a good job on playcalling up until 3:00 left in the game.

 

Given that we've had Mularkey, Schonert, Van Pelt, this is a nice change. Yes, I know Chan sucked today, but he called a decent O game up until the end. That I appreciate. If he can continue doing that, get his head out of his ass as a HC, and Wannstedt continues to blitz, we may have a fighting chance at a season.

[Big C]

Chan runs some neat plays, and I have some faith in him running the offense, but I think he still makes several questionable calls. We still ran the ball just fine in the second half and could stand to run a few more. I understand what he's saying about the safeties coming in, but Spiller is fast and can pick up yards under most circumstances, even with a banged up O-Line. We empty the backfield far too much. There's no doubt with a better QB some of those schemes will work better, but not with Fitz. Not that often.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Big C

[mrags]

Chan has no sack. He's got 2 stud RBs. A mauling OL and a crappy QB that couldn't throw a 2 yard screen today. The run was the ONLY thing working today and he took it away from us when we needed it most. For that and his rediculous descision to call that Wildcat play, he should have hung himself during his presser.

[Kelly the Dog]

Between the still injured Freddy and CJ, they had about 200 yards on the ground and in the air, and scored two TDs. This with a banged up OL and no passing game on the road against a great defensive team, and we won. Even with our QB having a lousy game. I think Chan knows what he is doing even if I was furious with him today several times myself.

[Rubes]

I was furious at Chan as well, but I get the sense more and more that if we had a QB that could actually throw the ball with average accuracy and consistency, we'd be thinking a lot better of him.

 

[mrags]

I was furious at Chan as well, but I get the sense more and more that if we had a QB that could actually throw the ball with average accuracy and consistency, we'd be thinking a lot better of him.

Your absolutely right. As much as I've shown my displeasure with Chan and his playcalling and gameplans, I agree. IF he had a better QB I do think we would be much better. However, WE DONT!!! At some point he needs to realize what he has and what he doesn't. And right now he's got a QB that even the most kool-aid drinking Bills/Fitz fan can see that he's not the answer. He's got an OL that has been beefed up over the years and is a big mauling line. And he's got 2 RBs (one with a rediculous average) that are clearly the most explosive players on the offensive side of the ball. At some point, he's just gotta play to his strengths. He has done that against KC and CLE and sort of today. But it's clear today that it would have and should have been a win if he didn't get cute at the end of the game. We got the W today, but it was lucky to say the least.

[ajzepp]

The more I hear from Chan, the more it bothers me how much he allows the defense to dictate his play calling. That's great that he's able to factor the defense into the equation, cause obviously that's a huge part of it, but at the same time we are strong enough on the Oline now and at our skill positions that we should also be able to dictate and impose OUR will from time to time. Especially when you are in position to lock up the game like we were in the 4th, you play to your strengths and rely on your playmakers. You don't take a risk and allow your 3rd string QB come in and throw a pass into the end zone. All that nonsense at the end of that game and into OT could have been avoided if they had played smart football, taken the game by the balls, and allowed our playmakers to seal the deal.

 

I know our Oline is a bit banged up, but they still open holes and can knock some heads. There's no excuse to resort to risky "catch them off guard" plays when you can win in the trenches and rely on your stars to execute.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The question (comment) was: "You seemed to really stick with the run today. You really stayed with it against a pretty talented front 7".

 

Chan said: "The longer we played, the tighter their safeties played. That's why in the second half we ended up throwing a little bit more in the second half. I would have liked to have run it even more but they wouldn't let us do it."

 

(...) this comment (and, given, when the Bills tried to run it at the end of the game, they couldn't get anything), makes me think Chan is the right guy to run the O.

 

Here are the actual play breakdowns from the 2nd half. Counting a QB scramble or sack as a pass play. Not counting an offensive penalty as either.

1. 5 pass plays for 25 yds, 2 run plays for 7 yds

2. 1 pass play for 23 yds, 2 run plays for 57 yds

3. 4 pass plays for 42 yds, 3 run plays for 24 yds

4. 3 pass plays for 12 yds, 3 run plays for 11 yds

5. 1 pass play for -6 yds, 1 run play for 9 yds

Total 14 pass plays for 96 yds or 6.85 YPA, 11 run plays for 108 yds or 9.8 YPA.

 

I guess I'm glad that Chan's comment makes you feel good, but I'm not clear on what, objectively, made Chan feel we couldn't run more successfully in the 2nd half.

The run/pass breakdown isn't awful (56% pass, 44% run), but we were actually gaining more yardage overall by running than by passing. So I'm a little puzzled by Chan's conclusion. We might have needed to try some different run plays - put a blocking TE or FB into the game? One really does wonder if the play breakdown were swapped, if we could have gotten a few more 1st downs and another score and made the game less of a scramble.

 

OT, by the way, was 6 pass plays, 1 run play which I totally don't understand given the above stats.

 

And mrags, really, you'd have a bit more cred with me anyway if you could refrain from the OVERexaggerations. I realize they're in fashion around here at the moment, but I think the above shows that the run was not, in fact, the only thing working today and to suggest a coach commit suicide sits very badly given all the coaches who have suffered suicides in their families recently. That could be just me though.

[Tcali]

Thought this was an interesting and telling quote from Chan in the post game press conference. It isn't in the Bills or nfl.com highlights, but is in WGR's recording.

 

The question (comment) was: "You seemed to really stick with the run today. You really stayed with it against a pretty talented front 7".

 

Chan said: "The longer we played, the tighter their safeties played. That's why in the second half we ended up throwing a little bit more in the second half. I would have liked to have run it even more but they wouldn't let us do it."

 

Yes, the offense wasn't great today, and Fitz played terribly. But this comment (and, given, when the Bills tried to run it at the end of the game, they couldn't get anything), makes me think Chan is the right guy to run the O.

 

The Wildcat call was stupid. Going conservative and punting was extremely questionable. But I also thought Chan did a good job on playcalling up until 3:00 left in the game.

 

Given that we've had Mularkey, Schonert, Van Pelt, this is a nice change. Yes, I know Chan sucked today, but he called a decent O game up until the end. That I appreciate. If he can continue doing that, get his head out of his ass as a HC, and Wannstedt continues to blitz, we may have a fighting chance at a season.

 

i really dont buy that. other teams are always pinching the safeties because they all know that Fitz cant throw accurately more than 15 yards(and even that isnt a sure thing). -So there is always a built in excuse for him to run CJ and Fred 7 times each when they are the strongest part of our offense by far.

chan is an up and down offensive coordinator(looks great occasionally but usually made to look pretty mediocre by a decent D coordinator)---very average overall because of his lack of instinct for the game. He is a below average head coach because his game mgmt skills are poor.

[mrags]

The more I hear from Chan, the more it bothers me how much he allows the defense to dictate his play calling. That's great that he's able to factor the defense into the equation, cause obviously that's a huge part of it, but at the same time we are strong enough on the Oline now and at our skill positions that we should also be able to dictate and impose OUR will from time to time. Especially when you are in position to lock up the game like we were in the 4th, you play to your strengths and rely on your playmakers. You don't take a risk and allow your 3rd string QB come in and throw a pass into the end zone. All that nonsense at the end of that game and into OT could have been avoided if they had played smart football, taken the game by the balls, and allowed our playmakers to seal the deal.

 

I know our Oline is a bit banged up, but they still open holes and can knock some heads. There's no excuse to resort to risky "catch them off guard" plays when you can win in the trenches and rely on your stars to execute.

Nicely done. Step in there. Punch them in the mouth. Let them get up and keep doing it. That's what winning teams do.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He's got an OL that has been beefed up over the years and is a big mauling line.

 

And which is currently decimated by injuries, yes?

[Chilly]

Here are the actual play breakdowns from the 2nd half. Counting a QB scramble or sack as a pass play. Not counting an offensive penalty as either.

1. 5 pass plays for 25 yds, 2 run plays for 7 yds

2. 1 pass play for 23 yds, 2 run plays for 57 yds

3. 4 pass plays for 42 yds, 3 run plays for 24 yds

4. 3 pass plays for 12 yds, 3 run plays for 11 yds

5. 1 pass play for -6 yds, 1 run play for 9 yds

Total 14 pass plays for 96 yds or 6.85 YPA, 11 run plays for 108 yds or 9.8 YPA.

 

I guess I'm glad that Chan's comment makes you feel good, but I'm not clear on what, objectively, made Chan feel we couldn't run more successfully in the 2nd half.

The run/pass breakdown isn't awful (56% pass, 44% run), but we were actually gaining more yardage overall by running than by passing. So I'm a little puzzled by Chan's conclusion. We might have needed to try some different run plays - put a blocking TE or FB into the game? One really does wonder if the play breakdown were swapped, if we could have gotten a few more 1st downs and another score and made the game less of a scramble.

 

OT, by the way, was 6 pass plays, 1 run play which I totally don't understand given the above stats.

 

And mrags, really, you'd have a bit more cred with me anyway if you could refrain from the OVERexaggerations. I realize they're in fashion around here at the moment, but I think the above shows that the run was not, in fact, the only thing working today and to suggest a coach commit suicide sits very badly given all the coaches who have suffered suicides in their families recently. That could be just me though.

 

Interesting (and good) point. I'd love for someone with some time to break down those plays, and see what personnel we had versus what they looked like on D (personnel and how many in the box).

 

I think you provide good evidence against what Chan was saying there. I wonder what it was like matchup wise.

[ajzepp]

Nicely done. Step in there. Punch them in the mouth. Let them get up and keep doing it. That's what winning teams do.

 

Exactly. I could see it when our Oline was crap and we had to use gadget and/or riskier plays to offset that disadvantage, but our Oline has just crushed people this season. Stevie is amazing at getting separation. Our RBs are downright dominant. I don't understand the mentality of relying on our niche players in crucial, game-changing situations.

[Chilly]

The more I hear from Chan, the more it bothers me how much he allows the defense to dictate his play calling. That's great that he's able to factor the defense into the equation, cause obviously that's a huge part of it, but at the same time we are strong enough on the Oline now and at our skill positions that we should also be able to dictate and impose OUR will from time to time. Especially when you are in position to lock up the game like we were in the 4th, you play to your strengths and rely on your playmakers. You don't take a risk and allow your 3rd string QB come in and throw a pass into the end zone. All that nonsense at the end of that game and into OT could have been avoided if they had played smart football, taken the game by the balls, and allowed our playmakers to seal the deal.

 

I know our Oline is a bit banged up, but they still open holes and can knock some heads. There's no excuse to resort to risky "catch them off guard" plays when you can win in the trenches and rely on your stars to execute.

 

I'd argue that the time to impose our running game at will, when Chan went conservative, we failed (3 runs in a row before the 60 yarder)

Edited October 15, 2012 by BlueFire

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Interesting (and good) point. I'd love for someone with some time to break down those plays, and see what personnel we had versus what they looked like on D (personnel and how many in the box).

 

I think you provide good evidence against what Chan was saying there. I wonder what it was like matchup wise.

 

I'd love to do that. Unfortunately I've refrained from purchasing the all-22 as I'm afraid it might lead to divorce due to excessive time watching it....hopefully someone who has it can address this point.

 

I have wondered if QC and strong self-scouting are gaps for the Bills.

[Chilly]

I'd love to do that. Unfortunately I've refrained from purchasing the all-22 as I'm afraid it might lead to divorce due to excessive time watching it....hopefully someone who has it can address this point.

 

I have wondered if QC and strong self-scouting are gaps for the Bills.

 

LOL I hear you there. I was really, really excited about the All-22, till the season started and I realized I didn't have time for it.

[ajzepp]

I'd argue that the time to impose our running game at will, when Chan went conservative, we failed (3 runs in a row before the 60 yarder)

 

 

 

• 1-10-BUF 41(5:54) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete short left to 13-St.Johnson.
  
• 2-10-BUF 41(5:50) (Shotgun) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass short left to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at ARI 47 for 12 yards (51-P.Lenon). ARI-25-K.Rhodes was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
  
• 1-10-ARI 47(5:25) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to ARI 40 for 7 yards (51-P.Lenon).
  
• 2-3-ARI 40(4:42) 22-F.Jackson right tackle to ARI 37 for 3 yards (58-D.Washington).
  
• 1-10-ARI 37(4:00) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to ARI 36 for 1 yard (90-D.Dockett).
  
• 2-9-ARI 36(4:00) Direct snap to 16-B.Smith. 16-B.Smith pass deep middle intended for 19-D.Jones INTERCEPTED by 21-P.Peterson at ARI 0. 21-P.Peterson to ARI 15 for 15 yards (79-E.Pears).
  

 

 

That's not what I see. Fred ran for a first down on the first two carries - 7 and 3 yards, respectively - and then they ran it once more for a yard before the brain fart.

[Chilly]

• 1-10-BUF 41(5:54) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass incomplete short left to 13-St.Johnson.
   
  
• 2-10-BUF 41(5:50) (Shotgun) 14-R.Fitzpatrick pass short left to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at ARI 47 for 12 yards (51-P.Lenon). ARI-25-K.Rhodes was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
   
  
• 1-10-ARI 47(5:25) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to ARI 40 for 7 yards (51-P.Lenon).
   
  
• 2-3-ARI 40(4:42) 22-F.Jackson right tackle to ARI 37 for 3 yards (58-D.Washington).
   
  
• 1-10-ARI 37(4:00) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to ARI 36 for 1 yard (90-D.Dockett).
   
  
• 2-9-ARI 36(4:00) Direct snap to 16-B.Smith. 16-B.Smith pass deep middle intended for 19-D.Jones INTERCEPTED by 21-P.Peterson at ARI 0. 21-P.Peterson to ARI 15 for 15 yards (79-E.Pears).
  

That's not what I see. Fred ran for a first down on the first two carries - 7 and 3 yards, respectively - and then they ran it once more for a yard before the brain fart.

 

Hmm, you're right. My memory is failing me here. I thought we failed a couple plays before that, but nope.

 

 

EDIT: This is what I was thinking of, but it's clouded cause of the sack:

 

• Buffalo Bills at 01:09
  
• 3-J.Feely kicks 65 yards from ARI 35 to end zone, Touchback.
  
• 1-10-BUF 20(1:09) (Shotgun) 14-R.Fitzpatrick sacked at BUF 14 for -6 yards (50-O.Schofield).
  
• Timeout #1 by ARI at 01:05.
  
• 2-16-BUF 14(1:05) (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 16 for 2 yards (93-C.Campbell).
  
• Timeout #2 by ARI at 01:01.
  
• 3-14-BUF 16(1:01) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 23 for 7 yards (58-D.Washington).
  

Edited October 15, 2012 by BlueFire

[ajzepp]

Hmm, you're right. My memory is failing me here. I thought we failed a couple plays before that, but nope. Damn.

 

I know it's hindsight, but just seems like it would have been a great time for Spiller to get a few carries, kick the FG, and force them to put it in the endzone. I would have enjoyed this win so much more if they would have done that....all that ridiculousness after this series was truly maddening.

[Chilly]

I know it's hindsight, but just seems like it would have been a great time for Spiller to get a few carries, kick the FG, and force them to put it in the endzone. I would have enjoyed this win so much more if they would have done that....all that ridiculousness after this series was truly maddening.

 

Heh, you should see the messages I sent my friend earlier (Seahawks fan who was rooting for us). I was cursing Chan's name right about that same time.