Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Perhaps we should be more concerned if all of our late round picks were making the roster, as it would be indication that our existing talent is subpar. Coach Tuesday, my good fellow, YE OLE is with you on the the 1st/2nd/3rd rd. guys. Nix needs to be hitting on those more than not. But when you get into 5th, 6th, 7th, UDFA's it becomes more of a numbers game. Bring in a pool of these guys and maybe you hit on Fred Jackson or Stevie Johnson. However, there's a reason that these guys go late in the draft and if their talent level is such that they're going to automatically make your roster, that speaks to where our talent level has been in past years when this team hasn't been good. Look at who New England drafted in the 5th-7th rounds from 2010 to 2011: Marcus Cannon, Lee Smith, Markell Carter, Malcolm Williams, Zoltan Mesko, Ted Larsen, Thomas Welch, Brandon Deadrick, Kade Weston, and Zach Robinson Only 4 of those 10 picks have seen any playing time with New England. Lee Smith we poached from them much like our late round picks are getting picked up off waivers this year. I simply use New England as an example, but you can find similar situations with many of the perennial powers in the league. Aside from the rare exceptions when a Kyle Williams type falls through the cracks, if players of Mark Asper caliber were making any significant contribution to this team, we would rue the day. It would be shades of Jamie Nails and Marcus Spriggs all over again, gents! Edited September 1, 2012 by Cotton Fitzsimmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Perhaps we should be more concerned if all of our late round picks were making the roster, as it would be indication that our existing talent is subpar. Coach Tuesday, my good fellow, YE OLE is with you on the the 1st/2nd/3rd rd. guys. Nix needs to be hitting on those more than not. But when you get into 5th, 6th, 7th, UDFA's it becomes more of a numbers game. Bring in a pool of these guys and maybe you hit on Fred Jackson or Stevie Johnson. However, there's a reason that these guys go late in the draft and if their talent level is such that they're going to automatically make your roster, that speaks to where our talent level has been in past years when this team hasn't been good. Look at who New England drafted in the 5th-7th rounds from 2010 to 2011: Marcus Cannon, Lee Smith, Markell Carter, Malcolm Williams, Zoltan Mesko, Ted Larsen, Thomas Welch, Brandon Deadrick, Kade Weston, and Zach Robinson Only 4 of those 10 picks have seen any playing time with New England. Lee Smith we poached from them much like our late round picks are getting picked up off waivers this year. Aside from the rare exceptions when a Kyle Williams type falls through the cracks, if players of Mark Asper caliber were making any significant contribution to this team, we would rue the day. It would be shades of Jamie Nails and Marcus Spriggs all over again, gents! Fair point and I hope you're right. It doesn't explain the 2010 draft debacle though - we had no players on that squad. There was no reason why those later round picks shouldn't have stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Carder puzzles me because from his tweet about "wasn't the right fit" seems to imply a mistake in drafting him... you don't draft players who aren't a good fit for your team, right? So your point seems more applicable there. I can't fault a team for being willing to admit mistakes and cut their losses, though, as long as they don't make too many. Don't be puzzled by Tank's tweet. It was classic sour grapes. He said this to distract from the real reason he was cut; because he sucks. He wasn't going to tweet about how his lack of NFL readiness lead to his release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Consider that Asper might have stuck on the roster this year had Nix not previously claimed Urbik and RInehart off waivers in previous years. As your base talent level improves, it becomes harder for rookies to make the squad. So as years go by and fewer draft picks make the team, does that mean the GM stinks? Edit: I think I'm making the same point Ye Ole does, above. Edited September 1, 2012 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Asper was picked up by the Vikings. Good for him. Wish him the best. Nix is a failure. I'm so done with this team. Fair point and I hope you're right. It doesn't explain the 2010 draft debacle though - we had no players on that squad. There was no reason why those later round picks shouldn't have stuck. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Modrak head scout at the time? Buddy was only a regional scout, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I guess we are all so accustomed to keeping all of our draft picks and seeing them develop that it doesnt seem right to see them leave so fast. That and we have been posting on them and what part they will play since april. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Asper was picked up by the Vikings. Good for him. Wish him the best. Nix is a failure. I'm so done with this team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Modrak head scout at the time? Buddy was only a regional scout, no? Wrong. Buddy was GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Agreethat an improved overall talnet level means less draft picks will make the team. But a fifth round LB that can't make this team with these LB's is horrible talent assessment. I'm sorry but nix is just not goodat evaluating college players. His first two drafts are awful. Dareus was a no brainer. Only one QB taken in three drafts. wasted picks on trades. I'm not sold on A. Williams. All of thr low roundcontributors on this team were from previous regimes. Nix seems much better at FA assessment than college players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Perhaps we should be more concerned if all of our late round picks were making the roster, as it would be indication that our existing talent is subpar. Coach Tuesday, my good fellow, YE OLE is with you on the the 1st/2nd/3rd rd. guys. Nix needs to be hitting on those more than not. But when you get into 5th, 6th, 7th, UDFA's it becomes more of a numbers game. Bring in a pool of these guys and maybe you hit on Fred Jackson or Stevie Johnson. However, there's a reason that these guys go late in the draft and if their talent level is such that they're going to automatically make your roster, that speaks to where our talent level has been in past years when this team hasn't been good. Look at who New England drafted in the 5th-7th rounds from 2010 to 2011: Marcus Cannon, Lee Smith, Markell Carter, Malcolm Williams, Zoltan Mesko, Ted Larsen, Thomas Welch, Brandon Deadrick, Kade Weston, and Zach Robinson Only 4 of those 10 picks have seen any playing time with New England. Lee Smith we poached from them much like our late round picks are getting picked up off waivers this year. I simply use New England as an example, but you can find similar situations with many of the perennial powers in the league. Aside from the rare exceptions when a Kyle Williams type falls through the cracks, if players of Mark Asper caliber were making any significant contribution to this team, we would rue the day. It would be shades of Jamie Nails and Marcus Spriggs all over again, gents! Exactly right. The point I was making in my previous post. If it were the Bills claiming Mark Asper, a 6th round pick, off waiver a week before the season, we would have reason to be concerned. This has been the case far too long, but no longer is. Progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Fair point and I hope you're right. It doesn't explain the 2010 draft debacle though - we had no players on that squad. There was no reason why those later round picks shouldn't have stuck. Can't argue with you there, Coach. The 2010 draft doesn't look good top to bottom. Moats looks like a decent late rd. find out of that class, and CJ has some talent, but hasn't made the impact you'd hope out of a top 10 pick yet (perhaps due to circumstance as much as talent). But, I would definitely have hoped to get more out of Troup, Carrington, and Easley, which appears to be absolutely nothing at this point. Edited September 1, 2012 by Cotton Fitzsimmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Honestly, even day 1 asper was probably my biggest head scratcher from the last few drafts. I didn't see even if he played well where he fit - we seemed pretty set on the interior, unless there was a behind the scenes concerns we weren't privy too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Edit: I think I'm making the same point Ye Ole does, above. Indeed you are, my good fellow. If a well learned scholar of the game such as BillnutinHouston, YE OLE must be on to something here, gents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) My point is I would like to see Nix make better use of his draft picks. His drafts have been horrible. sorry man, you are all over the place on this thread. You seem angry that asper was claimed, yet you claim nix's picks are awful. Cleary the vikes thought asper was good enough to make their roster, validating the quality of that pick. You are arguing against yourself. Also, Gilmore, williams, sheppard, dareus, glenn, and hairston are all starting for the bills this year,drafted by nix in the last two drafts. Guys are also raving about Brooks and rogers. The evidence seems to point to him doing ok... The 2010 draft was a modrak draft Also, I think most people would agree FJ is better than lynch. Im not sure what youre so mad about. Edited September 1, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 wow! you are good! i will suggest that you become the official fact checker on here. cracks me up that so many on here are so concerned about jumping on somebody's A$$ about minor inaccuracies. who cares? most on here are expressing thoughts, opinions, and most that read them get the gist! Right but that post was disingenuous at best. Implying we traded a 6th for a probowl rb not only was a mischaracterization of the picks, but left out a host of issues with the player involved as well. It was intentionally manipulative, not just a simple "oops - wrong round" Coach, I get your point, but I don't think it was a fair way to portray it. I think the late rounders are a good spot to take shots. I think if you looked around the league at what late rounders from 2-3 years ago are doing you will be shocked how few have any impact and even fewer impacting their original team. It's one thing to say he's not hitting homeruns, but without a baseline around the league it's hard to knock his reputation. Look at the 4th round of easleys class - outside of Hernandez and geno Atkins.... Slim pickings..... I'd say half the guys are on waivers right now, or already on team #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Wrong. Buddy was GM. Right, but the scouts that created the draft board were Modrak's guys. If you have bad marks on players you're going to select bad players. Buddy's not watching all of these late round guys carefully, no GM is, you're scouts are your eyes in the late rounds. Are you forgetting the scouting dept overhaul after the 11 draft? They fired a bunch of guys along with Modrak. David Nelson may not have been a '10 draft pick but they hit on him, may not be a gamebreaker but he's a good receiver. If you don't hit on a late round draft pick but hit on an undrafted player(s) from time to time what's the difference, and Howell made the team this year. Edited September 1, 2012 by bouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory Bound Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 There you are - I was wondering when you'd show up. In about five years since I've been around here, I still have yet to see you contribute meaningful football insight to a conversation. There is deep wisdom in PTR's one-liners...perhaps you're just not bright enough to pick it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Also, I think most people would agree FJ is better than lynch. It's not even close. Marshawn is a loser. He's likable a good percentage of the time, but he's a loser. I'd take Freddie any day and twice on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 sorry man, you are all over the place on this thread. You seem angry that asper was claimed, yet you claim nix's picks are awful. Cleary the vikes thought asper was good enough to make their roster, validating the quality of that pick. You are arguing against yourself. Also, Gilmore, williams, sheppard, dareus, glenn, and hairston are all starting for the bills this year,drafted by nix in the last two drafts. The evidence seems to point to him doing ok... The 2010 draft was a modrak draft Also, I think most people would agree FJ is better than lynch. Im not sure what youre so mad about. My point was not about Lynch or Asper in particular - I keep saying it, not sure how else to say it. Also, Hairston is not a starter. There is deep wisdom in PTR's one-liners...perhaps you're just not bright enough to pick it out. I view him more as some kind of low-level foot soldier. He views himself as some kind of self-appointed Defender Of The Faith, and comes here to play whack-a-mole with anyone who he perceives to be criticizing his favorite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) My point was not about Lynch or Asper in particular - I keep saying it, not sure how else to say it. Also, Hairston is not a starter. He's not? He started last year at LT, and if you check the line up opening day Im sure he will be starting at RT. Even if you dont care about lynch or asper (even though thats what you commented on), the points about Nixs drafts still stand. Edited September 2, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canks Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 My point .... I just don't see where he gets this reputation as a maverick drafter. It's a joke. Probably from Top Gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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